ship a rifle to yourself in another state?

[Dr.Rob]

Say you wanted to skip the hassle of flying with a checked firearm. What's the best way to SHIP your rifle ahead (with you as the only one authorized to pick it up?). Assume rifle is legal in destination state for hunting or competition.

This came up in another forum (people wanting to do matches in AZ who don't reside in AZ) and I don't know the answer.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Say you wanted to skip the hassle of flying with a checked firearm. What's the best way to SHIP your rifle ahead (with you as the only one authorized to pick it up?). Assume rifle is legal in destination state for hunting or competition.....

ATF (see FAQ 9) says that someone can ship a gun to himself:

Q: May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.​

But UPS and Fedex under their rules won't do it. And USPS won't do it for a receiver or handgun -- only for a rifle or shotgun. See USPS Publication 52, Part 4, Section 43 :

First, let's look at what is mailable.

1. Under 432.3:

   Except under 431.2, unloaded rifles and shotguns are mailable. Mailers must comply with the rules and regulations under 27 CFR, Part 478, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the rifle or shotgun is unloaded and not ineligible for mailing. The following conditions also apply:...

   
   431.2 refers to short barrel rifles and shotguns which are not mailable.
   
   
2. But what is a rifle and what is a shotgun for the purpose of 432.2? "Rifle" and "shotgun" are defined at 431.4:

   A rifle is a shoulder weapon having a barrel that is 16 inches or more in length. A shotgun is a shoulder weapon having a barrel that is 18 inches or more in length. Rifles and shotguns have an overall length of 26 inches or greater and cannot be concealed on a person.

Let's look at UPS and FedEx tariffs/conditions of service.

1. According to their published terms neither FedEx nor UPS will accept a firearm for shipment from an individual to another individual, even if that individual is himself (i. e., the shipper). They will accept a firearm from an individual for shipment to an FFL or, when legal (e. g. a repaired gun shipped by a manufacturer to the individual who sent it in for repair), from an FFL for shipment to an individual.
   
   
   • UPS Terms of Service, pg 7 (emphasis added):

     3.6 Firearms and Ammunition
     
     UPS accepts Packages containing firearms or ammunition only pursuant to the following limitations.
     
     3.6.1 Firearms
     
     UPS accepts Packages containing firearms (as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code) only (a) between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors (as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code), and government agencies; and (b) where not otherwise prohibited by federal, state, or local law from (i) an individual to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer or licensed collector; and (ii) from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to an individual. The Shipper shall comply with and shall ensure that each Shipment containing firearms complies with all federal, state, and local laws applicable to the Shipper, recipient, and Package, including, without limitation, age restrictions....

     
     
   • FedEx Service Guide, pg 140 (emphasis added):

     Firearms
     
     A. FedEx Express will transport and deliver firearms as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S., but only between:
     
     

     1. Licensed importers; licensed manufacturers; licensed dealers; licensed collectors; law enforcement agencies of the U.S. or any department or agency thereof; and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political subdivisions thereof; or
     
     2. Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same)​

     .....

   
   
2. So under both UPS and FedEx rules, when an individual is either the shipper or recipient, there must be an FFL on the other end.

One more wrinkle: It is a violation of federal law (18 USC 922(e)) for anyone to ship a gun interstate to a non-licensee without written notice to the carrier. While in many cases it is illegal for someone to ship a gun interstate to a non-licensee, in can be legal in some cases, e. g., an FFL returning a gun after repair, the executor of an estate distributing an inherited gun to the beneficiary, or someone shipping a gun to himself.

 

[Elkins45]

One more wrinkle: It is a violation of federal law (18 USC 922(e)) for anyone to ship a gun interstate to a non-licensee without written notice to the carrier.

So if you were mailing yourself a rifle via USPS, what form would this written notice take? And to whom would it be addressed? A letter to the local postmaster? I wonder if USPS has a standardized form?

 

[ilbob]

the way i read it if you want to ship a gun to yourself via UPS or fedex you would need a C&R license.

 

[dogtown tom]

So if you were mailing yourself a rifle via USPS, what form would this written notice take? And to whom would it be addressed? A letter to the local postmaster? I wonder if USPS has a standardized form?

The written notice Frank refers to is for UPS/FedEx shipments.
When mailing a rifle or shotgun via USPS, no written notice is required.

 

[Frank Ettin]

The written notice Frank refers to is for UPS/FedEx shipments.
When mailing a rifle or shotgun via USPS, no written notice is required.

That's correct. It was my fault for not being as precise as usual. The statute explicitly refers to shipping by "common carrier", so it would not apply to USPS. I should have been more clear.

 

[lemaymiami]

Haven't gone this route in a few years so don't know if it's still possible but I've shipped guns by Greyhound bus when needed - and received them a day or so later. Had to go to the correct bus station to pick up the package, though... .

 

[ddc]

I don't suppose there would be enough interest in shipping firearms to yourself to support a business that provided that service?
i.e. FirearmsExpress... lol?

 

[DannyLandrum]

FedEx will do it (most likely)- "What's in it?" "Machine parts" "OK". If pressed further, firearm parts. Just take something off of it - separate stock from action etc.

 

[Gelrir]

Our local FedEx and UPS shops specifically both told me "put down machine parts" for not-a-complete-firearm packages.

 

[dogtown tom]

FedEx will do it (most likely)- "What's in it?" "Machine parts" "OK". If pressed further, firearm parts. Just take something off of it - separate stock from action etc.

Describing the contents of a firearm shipment as "machine parts" is a felony under some circumstances, at the very least you'll get sip on a claim for loss or damage. It's a firearm no matter whether assembled or disassembled.
Surely you know that?

Our local FedEx and UPS shops specifically both told me "put down machine parts" for not-a-complete-firearm packages.

1. No FedEx or UPS employee can alter the shippers tariff, and the shippers tariff clearly describes whats required. (and it IS NOT calling a firearm "machine parts". )
2. If you are taking firearms to your local UPS Store you are already violating the UPS tariff.
3. In the last ten years I've shipped at least three firearms ever week. NOT ONCE have I been asked to describe the contents when shipping UPS or FedEx. That's because their online system doesn't ask. Why does the local UPS Store ask?...…..its because UPS prohibits them from shipping firearms.

Good grief.

 

[DannyLandrum]

"Describing the contents of a firearm shipment as "machine parts" is a felony under some circumstances"

No, that is absolutely wrong. How can the truth be a lie? It is in fact machine parts. Please tell me how it's not, if it is disassembled (and frankly, even if it is NOT disassembled, it is still a true statement - it does in fact contain "machine parts" - which just so happen to be assembled into the machine at the present time). It is incumbent upon them to ask follow up questions, not upon me to expand upon a wholly true statement. I'm not under oath. Please tell me the felony statute that you mention.

Their failure to ask follow up questions in order to exercise due diligence to enforce their OWN rules, that the law does not require, in no way makes ME a criminal for telling the truth - to suggest otherwise is nonsense! Good grief indeed.

 

[DannyLandrum]

"NOT ONCE have I been asked to describe the contents when shipping UPS or FedEx"

FedEx always asks, in person, in my experience ("what's in the box?"), even though their rules allow shipping firearms! Now, if they simply don't know their own rules, AND if they ask the follow up questions, then I simply educate them as to what their own rule is, getting a manager if necessary (fun fact: don't walk in 10 minutes before they close if you're going to ship a gun). If their rule is, as I believe it is: "recipient must be FFL", then no problem - I show them the FFL of the recipient, if out of state (since the law also requires same for out of state - an FFL receiving, except in the case of a self-transfer). If in-state, where the recipient need not legally be an FFL, then I don't know what would happen because that hasn't happened to me yet. If I were to ship in-state to someone to happen to not be an FFL, and if I was told no, then we would jointly dig to find the definitive answer as to whether their rules allow it, and if the answer is no, then fine - the carrier can do what they please; in that case, I'd have to tell the transferee that an FFL on their end is required and come back again at a later date.

Also, I believe the way their insurance works is this: (1) They accept your value, and charge the premium accordingly (how could they do otherwise?; they are not inspecting it); (2) if it's lost, it's on them and they pay. You don't have to show or prove in any way what was in there (and how could you prove it?; hence the rule). The only thing you have to prove is that you declared a value, paid their requested premium commensurate with the value declared, and that they lost it due to their fault, when it was in their possession - you don't have to prove that what you described exactly matched the actual contents, or anything of the sort. There were no untrue statements made at any time, using "machine parts".

 

[DannyLandrum]

"Why does the local UPS Store ask?...…..its because UPS prohibits them from shipping firearms."

Last I heard, UPS allowed long guns (overnight required), but not handguns. I guess it must have changed? I wouldn't know as I boycott them and DHL for their various bans and restrictions.

Why does FedEx ask? is the best question.

 

[cjwils]

Last time I checked, UPS and Fedex would both ship a handgun, overnight express, to a handgun repair shop which is an identified FFL. You might need to go to your regional center, rather than a neighborhood shipper.

 

[Frank Ettin]

....How can the truth be a lie? It is in fact machine parts. Please tell me how it's not, if it is disassembled (and frankly, even if it is NOT disassembled, it is still a true statement - it does in fact contain "machine parts" - which just so happen to be assembled into the machine at the present time). ....

Nonsense. Don't be cute. If there's a receiver in the package the package contains a firearm, as "firearm" is defined in federal law.

....Also, I believe the way their insurance works is this: (1) They accept your value, and charge the premium accordingly (how could they do otherwise?; they are not inspecting it); (2) if it's lost, it's on them and they pay. You don't have to show or prove in any way what was in there (and how could you prove it?; hence the rule). The only thing you have to prove is that you declared a value, paid their requested premium commensurate with the value declared, and that they lost it due to their fault, when it was in their possession - you don't have to prove that what you described exactly matched the actual contents, or anything of the sort. There were no untrue statements made at any time, using "machine parts".

You believe? Got any actual evidence to support that?

Identifying the package as containing machine parts is untrue. It's untrue because it's misleading and non-responsive. Both FedEx and UPS require that the shipper tell the counter person if the package contains a firearm. Failure to do so, and relying on disingenuous garbage to justify doing so, is a violation of the shipper's contract with the carrier. The shipper's failure to comply with the applicable carrier rules allows the carrier to decline to pay an insurance claim.

Your lousy information is not appreciated in the Legal Forum.

 

[George P]

FedEx will do it (most likely)- "What's in it?" "Machine parts" "OK". If pressed further, firearm parts. Just take something off of it - separate stock from action etc.

Do that, and something happens, your claim will be denied

 

[George P]

So if you were mailing yourself a rifle via USPS, what form would this written notice take? And to whom would it be addressed? A letter to the local postmaster? I wonder if USPS has a standardized form?

It would be addressed to you c/o the destination location, as in ships from Joe Blow and it is addressed to Joe Blow, c/o of XYZ hunting Outfitters, etc., etc.