Shipping a handgun in-state

[Anna's Dad]

Hi all. I've got a buyer for one of my hand guns and want to make sure this is completely legit.

The buyer is in the same state as I am and has requested that I ship the gun directly to him.

In advance of shipping the gun, he will send a copy of his state issued identification and CCW (and payment, of course).

Upon deposit of funds, I will ship the gun to the address on his state issue ID along with a copy of my state issued identification and CCW via FedEx or UPS and will notify the carrier that I'm shipping a fiream. I know they will require me to ship overnight based on their rules.

I am a Florida resident (if that matters) and do not hold a FFL-01.

From what I've read, this is perfectly legal. I just want to make sure I'm not missing something! Thanks.

 

[CountGlockula]

No, no, no.

Go through each other's FFL dealers to handle the paper work transfer. Have your FFL dealer ship the gun to his FFL dealer. Both dealers need to exchange their license to make sure it's legitimate.

This is just my opinion, please check your local private party sale laws.

 

[cdrt]

You do not need an FFL dealer on your end to ship the gun, but you do need to ship it to an FFL dealer where the buyer is, so he can complete the paperwork to have it registered to him.

You'll need a signed copy of the FFL dealers license when you take it to UPS, FedEx, etc. to ship. The buyer needs to get that to you with his payment. His having a CCW, etc. has no bearing on this transaction.

Of course, if he lived close enough, you could do a private party transfer (face to face, not shipped) since that is legal in Florida. Some states, like California require that even private party transfers go through a FFL dealer.

If you have any other concerns, send me a PM. I've done this a lot and it's easy, just don't send him the gun directly...you could end up in a lot of trouble.

 

[wdlsguy]

Anna's Dad,

Everything you are proposing sounds legal. You may have a hard time convincing UPS / FedEx to take the shipment though, since neither of you are FFLs. You might want to take a printout of the following item from the ATF FAQ with you to UPS / FedEx.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b8

 

[Kilgor]

There's no ffl requirement for instate transactions. I think you're fine.

Since the transaction does not cross state lines, the feds have no authority via the commerce clause.

Email ATF and ask.

 

[MisterPX]

Intrastate, no need to go with FFl, unless there's a state law against it, and I don't think FL has one. Do gotta ship overnight as you've planned, so that's covered.

 

[Car Knocker]

You do not need an FFL dealer on your end to ship the gun, but you do need to ship it to an FFL dealer where the buyer is, so he can complete the paperwork to have it registered to him.

This is not required in many states and the feds don't require this in an intrastate sale.

 

[Steelharp]

ATF regs, from the ATF site:

(B7) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?

A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]

(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]


You're welcome...

 

[Kilgor]

Good job. Knowing the law is always better than speculation.

 

[Jim Watson]

The law is one thing, getting a hysterical/arrogant/ignorant shipping clerk to take your gun is another. Good luck.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I don't think you will have a problem. And you CAN use FEDEX/Kinko's stores, they are manned by real FEDEX employee's. I even had one open the box, look at the handgun, close it up and ask if I wanted to ship by ground or air..... I said ground, saved over $45 and it went through just fine. The air shipment rule is FEDEX rule, not federal law.

Also you don't need to exchange driver's licenses/CCW's if you don't want to. There is no paperwork trail required. It's more important to get a signed receipt saying he received the gun in case it is used in a crime later. There is definitely, absolutely no need for you to send yours to him/her.

 

[BARRETT]

take it apart /
and or send in 2 boxes (apart)
it is not a gun if it is a PART
or best FFL on other end---------

 

[Anna's Dad]

OK--sounds like most of you agree with me anyway!

Regarding the signed bill of sale--I'm assuming that's not a requirement, just a good idea? I have bought and sold guns FTF in the past and have never had a signed bill of sale. I just kept the name of the buyer and the serial number of the gun. This will actually be a little better in that I will have a copy of the buyers CCW and DL. We both agreed to exchange CCW and DL.

I had read the ATF FAQ but bringing it with me sounds like a great idea.

Central Florida is more gun friendly than South Florida (where I lived all my life) so hopefully I won't have a problem with the shipping clerk.

I'll let everyone know if I run into any trouble!

 

[NavyLCDR]

A signed bill of sale is not a requirement, but it is protection. Even if you have the other person's name, address, phone number, copy of their dl and ccl, it is still your word against his/her as to the date the firearm was transferred or even if it was transferred or not. I always sign a receipt stating I received such and such $$$$ for such and such gun w/serial number on such and such date. I give that to the buyer to prove I took his/her money. I have them sign the same thing, they received gun w/serial number on date for the purchase price of $$$$. I keep that one.

I would say since you are sending the gun with signature required for delivery, that the persons money + signed proof of delivery would be enough.

 

[Car Knocker]

take it apart /
and or send in 2 boxes (apart)
it is not a gun if it is a PART

No matter how many parts it is in, the receiver (or the serial-numbered part) is still a firearm, according to the feds.

 

[Anna's Dad]

Well, it was a little hassle, but all worked out well.

The clerk said that he thought one of us had to be a dealer and that it had to go Express. He called a regional manager who told him that the recipient had to be a dealer even if it was intrastate.

I told him that his manager was wrong and offered to show him the ATF regs. He then called a corporate policy number who told him that it was fine as long as I had a FedEx account number (I didn't).

Rather than argue, I just opened an account number that I will now cancel.

The best part is that apparently the corporate person told him that the shipping method didn't matter and he let it go Ground! With insurance it was only $11 and will still arrive tomorrow because its in-state.

FYI: The buyer actually included 2 signed bills of sale with his payment. I completed and signed them as well and sent one back to him.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Gotta love FedEx when they screw it up in your favor

What's the deal with the FexEx account, but oh well, all's well that ends well.

The only down side is that if FedEx loses the shipment, which I doubt, you may not be able to collect the insurance because it went ground, even though it was their mistake.

Where did you actually give it to FedEx at, a FedEx/Kinko's or some other FedEx facility?