Shipping guns, one specific aspect, notification to the shipper.

[GTFord1]

(This is from another gun forum I read with the same moniker, I just wanted to see what different people would say.)

We were talking about shipping guns UPS, etc, and if we need to notify the driver if a gun is in the box. Here's where it gets confusing.

This law seems to say you need to inform the carrier regardless. Maybe? It also says "handgun"

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b8

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

This law seems to imply you only need to inform the driver if you're shipping to a non-FFL.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.

The UPS website seems to explicitly state that you only need to inform the driver if you're shipping a handgun.

http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/firearms.html

- When you are shipping a package that contains a handgun, you must verbally notify the UPS driver or UPS Customer Center clerk.

- You can ship a firearm (excluding handguns), from a UPS daily pickup account, UPS On-Call Pickup, One-Time Pickup, or a UPS Customer Center. Note: Firearms are not accepted for shipment through UPS Internet Shipping, UPS Drop Boxes, or at The UPS Store or any third party retailer.

 

[Oro]

You are comparing apples to oranges.

The first quotes refer to the BATF requirements. This is the "law."

The other quote is from UPS. This is their "policy."

If you want to use UPS, you follow their rules, even if they are more strict than what the law requires. Shipping via UPS is very expensive, you are almost always better off finding a local FFL to do the shipping for you. He can use USPS flat rate boxes (you, as a non-licensee, cannot). He can ship for $15, whereas UPS is usually $75 or so. Even with his fee, it is usually much cheaper and also faster for long distances.

There is a sticky in the "Handgun - General" about shipping handguns. You should read that to start getting familiar with the rules/laws/policies/hassle of handgun shipment.

 

[GTFord1]

I have no interest in shipping a handgun. We were just talking about whether you have to notify the shipper or not for both longarms vs handguns. The only time I've ever shipped a handgun is from an FFL. This isn't about saving money or anything else. It's just a discussion about whether or not you have to tell the driver when he's coming to pick up your package (for a longarm, I know a handgun requires notification.)

UPS policy does not appear to agree with the first link. They say you don't have to notify the shipper if you're shipping a longarm. Then again, I'm not even sure if that's what the first link (ATF) is saying. They stick the word handgun in there, but it doesn't say longarm anywhere.

I just used UPS to ship two longarms. They were about $35 a piece. I don't know where you get the $70 amount from. Shipping + insurance on an expensive gun was less than $40. My personal FFL charges a flat $50 rate to ship.

 

[GTFord1]

In fact, I'll tell you what the exact price was, right off my debit card statement.

Electronic Purchase UPS*XXXXXX 800-811-1648 GAUS ($22.28)

Electronic Purchase UPS*XXXXXX 800-811-1648 GAUS ($36.26)

The first one was a cheaper gun, the second one was the nearly $2,000 gun WITH INSURANCE, a Browning Citori I no longer wanted.

 

[NavyLCDR]

The first quotes refer to the BATF requirements. This is the "law."

The BATFE FAQ's are far from the law. This one contains an error that BATFE has acknowledged exists. If you want to know what the law states, you need to read the actual law.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

18 USC 922

(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.

Note what the actual law says:
1. It applies to any firearm, not just handguns. It also applies to ammunition.
2. It ONLY applies when shipping to a non-FFL that is out of state. In state shipments and shipments to FFLs do not require BY LAW notification to the shipper.
3. The notification must be in writing.

In order to comply with UPS or FEDEX regulations, you have to notify them, but it is not required to be in writing, by their regulations, of ANY shipment containing any firearm regardless of the destination of the package.

 

[Jim Watson]

Yup. There are at least three versions; the letter of the law, the BATF FAQ the way they enforce it, and the company policy of the shipper.

It is usually cheaper to mail a gun, but the Post Office has its own tariff book and it is different from and usually stricter than the law. I had a heck of a time sending my Walther pellet pistol off for repair. The only shop in North America is in Canada. Canada required it to be mailed, their customs would not pass any sort of gun, even an airgun, on a common carrier. The US Post Office considered a pellet pistol to be a "handgun" so I had to get my FFL to do the paperwork to send my .177 400 fps airgun to the shop. Phew.

The last pistol I bought, I knew I would be sending off to a gunsmith as soon as I had shot it a little to be sure there were no warrantable defects. So I told the local FFL that if he wanted the sale he would have to send the gun back out on his store UPS account at cost. I could have driven 70 miles and bought the gun for less, but a daily pickup business account cut the shipping cost in half and saved me a lot of hassle at the Fed-UP depot.


It is legal to ship a gun in-state to any legal resident but just try to get a shipper to accept the box.

 

[NavyLCDR]

It is legal to ship a gun in-state to any legal resident but just try to get a shipper to accept the box.

You are correct about that. FEDEX won't, by written policy. Even though UPS says they will in their written tariff, their policy from UPS corporate HQ is no shipments to non-FFLs.

 

[happyrock]

Shipping firearms via common carrier

I'll give you the readers digest version...
# 1 You have to notify the common carrier (airline, UPS, etc.) that the item(s) you are shipping is a firearm(s).
# 2 The common carrier cannot place anywhere on the package that there is a fiream inside.
# 3 You can ship a firearm to ANY manufacturer or Federally Licensed Firearms dealer (FFL). Obviously for repair or selling them a firearm.
# 4 Contact the nearest ATF office if you have questions about how to do it and if you can do it.
# 5 Do not shipp a firearm to anyone but yourself if you are picking the gun up at the location you are arriving to! Almost found this out the hard way

I have and found many, but not all, helpful in answering direct questions about how to ship firearms. My used S&W needed a cocking indicator. I called and was told I could ship directly to S&W to have the gun repaired. Another time I went to Alaska. Called 3 months ahead and was told how to do it through the airlines...I also called the airlines ahead and verified their policy. I found the ATF website too large to navigate but was told where to go to by ATF when I called. Hope it helps...it helped me a lot.

 

[freakshow10mm]

The ATF FAQ is wrong about this:

Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm

 

[NavyLCDR]

The ATF FAW is wrong about this

And so is the FAQ, too!

 

[GTFord1]

Thanks for the clarification. Someone administrating "the other board" locked the thread about it without even saying anything, like they usually do, even though there was nothing wrong said.

It's ridiculous when you can't have a discussion about a topic that is of interest and use to all of us in the gun world.