Shooting at UW Campus

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I saw the report on tv a few minutes ago. The reporter was trying to get the police official she was interviewing to tell her what kind of gun it was, like it matters. I guess the people would be more dead if it was an "evil assault weapon". At any rate, things like this only make guns look worse to antis and gun grabbing liberals.
 
What? Must be a figment of their imaginations... Everyone knows GUNS AREN'T ALLOWED AT COLLEGES :neener: :banghead:
 
According to the local networks, the female victim had a domestic violence protection order out against the same man found dead at the scene. The conjecture is that he went to her office to kill her and then killed himself.
 
I don't understand. Guns are banned at those schools no? It's almost as if someone about to commit murder doesn't care about the law!!!!:eek: :eek:

If only those people had dialed 911, campus security would have appeared instantly and clubbed the murderers into submission with their flashlights of justice.
 
I have not seen any law prohibiting carry in WA universities. However, I have seen comments by Joe Waldron indicating that students are prohibited from carrying. So, if a student carried a gun for protection, that would be a violation of a student code of conduct.
 
State law does not prohibit guns on public university campuses in WA (prive schools are private property, and make their own rules).

Whether UW student/faculty/employee rules prohibit those individuals from having firearms on campus, I can't say.

However, given the text of the article, it would appear that the shooter chose the UW campus because it was a place he knew he could find his victim, not because it was a disarmament zone.

However, given that the apparent shooter was already prohibited from having a firearm, by virtue of the restraining order, I don't think he would have paid attention to any bans on possession on UW property, anyhow.

Now, the article says the shooter used a handgun. Any chance it was Chief Kerlikowski's (sp?) missing Glock?
 
Everyone knows GUNS AREN'T ALLOWED AT COLLEGES
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Idaho Attorney General does not consider colleges as schools that guns are banned at. School gun ban only applies to K-12. Colleges themselves can have policies banning guns, but legally having a gun on college campus in Idaho doesn't get prosecuted.
 
UW does prohibit firearms- I tried out for their PD a couple years ago. The guy I did my ride-along was pretty laid back about it; if he saw one in a student's dorm, he wouldn't take it or arrest them or anything, just nag them and ask them to leave it at home with their parents.

When I was working at the U of MD they had a no-weapons at all policy, including things like mace or pepper spray.
 
CPL on UW campus

After reading the previous posts and checking the UW police website (http://www.washington.edu/admin/police/prevention/weapons.html) I am still not clear whether a student or employee is allowed to carry a concealed pistol (with a CPL) on campus. According to the link, it seems like you must have written authorization from the UW chief of police or the Vice President of Student Affairs to have a firearm on campus but it doesn’t say anything about having a CPL. Also, I was wondering about what is considered “on campus” does it matter if you leave it in your vehicle that is parked on campus or what if you are just passing though campus (on a bike or in a vehicle)? I just recently got my CPL and am still trying to figure out where I can and cannot carry. Any clarification or references would be appreciated.
 
No gun carry allowed at UW. BTW this is the second double shooting there this SY. The last one was in the fall semester. Guess that gun ban is not working out as planned.
 
I saw the report on tv a few minutes ago. The reporter was trying to get the police official she was interviewing to tell her what kind of gun it was, like it matters. I guess the people would be more dead if it was an "evil assault weapon". At any rate, things like this only make guns look worse to antis and gun grabbing liberals.


Well, no. Not exactly a reason to get bent out of shape. I ask that same question any time I interview a police spokesperson and i know the reporter you're talking about, and she's a good study. We worked a couple of the same stories, and she picked that up from me.

She's a good reporter, and the type of firearm IS important.
 
Langenator wrote:
State law does not prohibit guns on public university campuses in WA (prive schools are private property, and make their own rules).

Whether UW student/faculty/employee rules prohibit those individuals from having firearms on campus, I can't say.
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Well, not exactly correct. There is a Washington Administrative (WAC) Code at the UW and other state college and university campuses have their own specific WAC codes. Some affect only students and staff, some affect everyone.

The UW's WAC 478-124-020 seems to apply to everyone, regardless whether they have a CPL. State statute trumps WAC codes, but I would not select to be a test case here.

However, given the text of the article, it would appear that the shooter chose the UW campus because it was a place he knew he could find his victim, not because it was a disarmament zone.
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That's about right. He knew where to find her, was stalking her and had threatened her.

However, given that the apparent shooter was already prohibited from having a firearm, by virtue of the restraining order, I don't think he would have paid attention to any bans on possession on UW property, anyhow.
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Well, the order had not been served because the cops could not find this guy. He gave a bogus address that turned out to be a super market.


Now, the article says the shooter used a handgun. Any chance it was Chief Kerlikowski's (sp?) missing Glock?
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No chance at all. It was reportedly a revolver. That's what I have now.
 
No firearms are allowed on campus without express written permission, with the usual exceptions for Police and other official sorts of persons etc.

If I heard correctly, the worst that will happen for a CCW holder getting made on campus is to be asked to leave. Failure to leave will result in arrest for trespassing. I DO NOT KNOW THE TRUTH OF THIS.

In any case, here's the WAC listing prohibiting firearms on campus

WAC 172-122-120 Firearms/weapons. Violations of the subsections of this section are subject to appropriate disciplinary or legal action. [whatever that is... carnaby :rolleyes: ]

(1) Possession, carrying, or discharge of any explosive, firearm, chemical weapon (or dangerous chemical) or other weapon; including shotguns, pistols, air guns, pellet guns, and paint ball guns, whether loaded or unloaded; is prohibited on property owned or controlled by Eastern Washington University.

(2) Only people who are authorized to carry firearms or other weapons as duly appointed and commissioned law enforcement officers in the state of Washington, or commissioned by agencies of the United States government, shall possess firearms or other weapons issued for their possession by their respective law enforcement agencies while on campus or other university-controlled property, including residence halls. A law enforcement agent must notify the university police of his or her presence on campus on arrival.

(3) Other than the people referenced in subsection (2) of this section, members of the campus community and visitors who bring firearms or other weapons to campus must immediately place the firearms or weapons in the university-provided storage facility, located at the red barn. The storage facility is controlled by the university police office and is accessible twenty-four hours per day throughout the year.

(4) Anyone seeking to bring a firearm or other weapon onto campus for display or demonstration purposes directly related to a class or other educational activity must obtain prior authorization from the university police department. The university police department shall review any such request and may establish conditions to the authorization.

(5) Firearms owned by the institution for use by special interest groups such as university-sponsored gun clubs, ROTC, or intercollegiate shooting teams, must be stored in a location approved by the university police department. These firearms must be checked out by the club advisor or coach and are to be used by legitimate members of the club or team in the normal course of the club or team's related activity.
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I know at least one person who carries on an irregular basis when they have to be at the UW late at night. I don't blame them.:rolleyes:
 
Please explain why the "type" of firearm used is relevant. Intent is present regardless if it was a .22LR pistol or some 50BMG isn't it?

I fail to see how the type of firearm is relevant, except for media sensationalization and dramatization. Like a person committing murder/suicide is somehow more malevolent with a tactical gun versus a target pistol. I fail to see the connection to relevance beyond the murderous intent. Why is the TOOL used relevant?
 
DoubleTapDrew: Campus police are fully commissioned officers. Had they arrived in time, I'm sure they would have used a SIG, not a flashlight. Unfortunately, they didn't arrive in time...

Maxwell636: Roads on upper campus (like Stevens Wy) and parking lots are most likely considered "on campus". Montlake Blvd or 45th is probably not considered "on campus". However, UWPD officers can cite you for traffic violations on these roads - I have first hand experience (unfortunately)

Titan6: the other double-shooting last fall happened off-campus, so UW firearms policy woudln't have affected that. There was another shooting in the same area late-fall or early winter.

Carnaby: UW's WAC is 478-124-020; sanctions are WAC 478-124-030. Basically, you are right - they'll ask you to leave as a first step. If you don't, then you'll probably get a trespass violation. Depending on your employment contract/status (faculty/staff/classified) you may also get canned.

WAC 478-124-030:

(1) Any person while on the university campus who willfully refuses the request of a uniformed campus police officer to desist from conduct prohibited by these rules may be required by such officer to leave such premises.

(2) Disciplinary action which may result in dismissal from the university will be initiated against faculty, staff, or students who violate these rules, in accordance with the applicable disciplinary codes or other appropriate due process procedures.


Interesting side-note: UW's WAC doesn't seem to make a provision for off-duty LEOs to carry on campus. There was a stink about this a few years ago when an off-duty SPD officer tried to carry into a football game.
 
Queston: are WACs established by the relevant state agency/institution (UW in this case), or by the Legislature?

If it's not the Legislature, wouldn't any gun ban thus be invalid under the pre-emption law?

Although, like Mr. Workman said, I wouldn't like to be the test case.

Also note this article from todays Seattle Times, which notes that restraining orders are just paper. Of course, they still ignore that fact that the victim could have armed herself.

"Given the access to weapons, and the determination of some men, there is realistically nothing that can be done to stop them from doing what they did," he said.
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The 'access to weapons' bit is pretty much the only thing I could find that can be vaguely construed as anti-gun (although any kind of weapon would have sufficed to kill a Condition White victim). Of course, if the victim had had a gun of her own, she would have at least had a fighting chance.

Although I will note that, even if the relevant WAC did have an exception for CPL holders, if the victim had applied for a CPL at the same time as the restraining order (March 6), she likely wouldn't have had it yet, given that Seattle and King County tend to take the max allowed 30 days to process them.
 
Seattle PI Online

Perusing the Seattle PI last night, there were three related articles to this. One of them had a good, comfy laundry list of all the things that potential victims can do. In this case, the victim DID all of those things, and yet, that piece of trash still walked up to her and shot her.

Nowhere in the list of potential defensive actions was a firearm listed. In this case, the victim actively defending herself with a firearm would truly have been her last, best course of action. Or anyone else around, although the reports of the shooting indicate that the trash walked up the stairs, into the office, shouted something to the effect that the victim was to blame, and then fired. Not much time for anyone but the victim to have shot him (the trash).
 
I've heard that the Attorney General has told Evergreen State that its "no firearms" policy is unenforceable under http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.290.

The campus cops would probably tell you to take it off campus, but at the worst it's trespassing if you don't do so.

We had an interesting situation at the Capitol Building here a year or two ago when they put in metal detectors, only to discover that state law doesn't ban firearms in the Capitol. They could ask you not to take your firearm past the detectors, but if you refused they had to let you do it. I suspect colleges are in the same boat.
 
However, UWPD officers can cite you for traffic violations on these roads - I have first hand experience (unfortunately)
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As do I, he tried to "teach me a lesson" by using his car as a weapon. He's lucky I missed him or he woulda been dead. But then I had no business going that speed....In the end noone was hurt, I was fined, and I learned the lesson never to be repeated....sounds win-win to me.

Also, as Dave Workman pointed out, without being served, the court has no way of proving he knew he'd be restricted from weapons, so he's not guilty by having one.

Also, the subject of a restraining order doesn't provide the address to be served at. The serving party (LEO usually) decides that given the information filed by the TRO filer (in this case the victim).

If I remember right, on UW campus, guns are allowed to be stored in the trunk of a car, EVEN students at the dorm, though they discouraged, and students can't guns have in the dorms. I believe CC is allowed if you stay in your vehicle.:banghead:
 
Carnaby: You've quoted the wrong WAC code.. That's the one specifically for Eastern Washington University, not the University of Washington. They're different. Each university and college has its own specific WAC... don't ask me why, I can't explain it.

Rowan used a stolen gun. Whether he actually stole it is up to question. Nobody will likely ever know.


Please explain why the "type" of firearm used is relevant. Intent is present regardless if it was a .22LR pistol or some 50BMG isn't it?
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Well, it is a piece of information that is more important to US than you realize. Isolate the type of firearm used, we can argue that it's not a certain type of demonized gun, so you can't call it "an assault pistol" or a "semiautomatic revolver" or some other such nonsense. (( You'd be surprised how many phone calls and e-mails I've had to send over the past few years, trying to convince the newsies in Seattle that this is a question they need to ask and have clarified, so they wouldn't make the stupid mistakes that drive people like you nuts. :) And, it might just be the reporter who asked this is thinking the same thing I am....where's Chief Kerlikowske's stolen Glock? ))


Actually it's "criminal trespass" if you don't leave. I checked today with the prosecutor's office. Trust me on this, they don't have much of a sense of humor about this, especially today.

The assistant chief of the UW police told me (he's a good guy, BTW) that his cops will advise and then give the offender a chance to take it off campus or actually check it with the campus police until his./her business is finished, then retrieve it and go on their way. He says a lot of people do that.

P35... just "where" did you hear the state AG said the prohibition is unenforcable? That'd be news to the prosecutor I spoke with today.
 
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