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AJC1
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This is not an ironed out process in the least. I have the master plan for jacketed, but lead in rifle is all new for me.
Shooting cast in 308 with accurate #9
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Charlie98
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What are you shooting these in... that might help...
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AJC1
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Rem 700 r5
BWS
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You lost me a little(not pointing fingers)...
See if I have this straight? You've got some bullets you want to use from your dad. You have some powder that you want to use but data is a little scarce.
Those bullets are a bore ride,have you mic'd their nose section? Is this nose diameter straight,or is there any taper as it gets toward 1st/top drive band?
Am assuming they were lube-sized? You can lube without sizing BTW. What is the body diameter as they sit?
Just sayin,you need some metrics on the bullet before you can really start to "play" with cast. One of the major benefits of cast is,within a range(pretty generous) you can alter their diameter towards a better fit. Noses can be bumped up,or swaged down... with the latter being of two main varieties. You can straight swage,or taper.
What are your interests with this load? That's one of the things I didn't catch. Just want something to shoot..... tear the X ring out..... go hunting.... something else?
See if I have this straight? You've got some bullets you want to use from your dad. You have some powder that you want to use but data is a little scarce.
Those bullets are a bore ride,have you mic'd their nose section? Is this nose diameter straight,or is there any taper as it gets toward 1st/top drive band?
Am assuming they were lube-sized? You can lube without sizing BTW. What is the body diameter as they sit?
Just sayin,you need some metrics on the bullet before you can really start to "play" with cast. One of the major benefits of cast is,within a range(pretty generous) you can alter their diameter towards a better fit. Noses can be bumped up,or swaged down... with the latter being of two main varieties. You can straight swage,or taper.
What are your interests with this load? That's one of the things I didn't catch. Just want something to shoot..... tear the X ring out..... go hunting.... something else?
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AJC1
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This tread has kinda evolved a long way from the original question. So the background I have a rem 700 r5 that I like to shoot at the range. It's the only gun I have at my house currently that can reasonably go 300 and hit. So my son shoots it and does reasonably well but even though he will tollerate 20 rounds it's a little much for his skinny behind. I cant find bullets so I had my mom mail me some from my dads stash. These were originally used and acquired for 30-30 that the family no longer owns. I cast so i have the lyman cast manual and load for 357 so i had several powders in that burn area. Lyman lists a few pistol powders of which I have 3 but only a pound each. Powder has been absent completely for the last year or i would be trying 4198 or just grab another couple of pounds of 2400 and call it done. I found a stash of #9 at a store for 26 a pound so I bought all 3 because better with powder than none and it's a powder I wanted to try in 357- I constantly try new things to learn. I cast and size for pistol at home for pistol. Not exactly a pro by any means but I do make good bullets. Anyhow I didnt have anything I needed for this project and I'm loading lead for the first time in rifle.
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AJC1
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bluejay75
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The alloy I'm using is not hard and not soft. They DO NOT pass the fingernail test so they are somewhere less than 15...but Im not sure how much less. But it is close to 50:50 COWW:SOWW. Water dropped out of the mold and quenched after powdercoating to set the coat slick like glass. Years ago I settled on one high power cartridge so I wouldnt have to stock a bunch of components and was determined to find a cast load that I could shoot reasonable accurate without a GC and without using some fancy alloy. It is my ARMAGEDDON high power load. I will most likely load about 500 of them sometime this year as well. Using mixed brass, no sort on the bullets, no GC, no extra steps and it shoots near MOA and EXPANDS!
If you look closely at the left photo...the Powdercoat did its job. It let a softer alloy fully compress and obturate under the pressure of being fired and expand when it got to its target and made the ride down the barrel without scrubbing off as with the bullet on the right. This is 50 yard expansion.
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AJC1
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Obviously two different moulds which one do you prefer? Depending on how this works out and if the boy likes it, that will become an important decision. Inital thoughts were for rcbs sil mold. Believe its 165 grains but being free of gas checks is a big positive.
bluejay75
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And that is not a bore riding nose. Bore riders are almost straight from where the ogive makes the turn to the first driving band. Bore riders are hard to powdercoat as they bullet is completely in the bore when you chamber. Powdercoat doesnt go on even enough to allow for this so you have to seat them deeper into the case or nose size them. Boreriders are inherently more accurate because of this. If you cant reach the lands its most likely not a borerider.
bluejay75
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Its the same mold. I have multiple of that mold for production (a 5 and a 4 cavity that I dual wield) and I have a MP molds 308 Hunter Grooveless GC which is nearly the same but a touch lighter but it hasnt even seen lead yet. Then I have a NOE RD mold same as the other 2 thats a GC and HP mold. Never found a need to use it yet.
Through my testing, the flat noses WANT to expand at almost any impact velocity above 1400 FPS. So I would go heavier than 165. The smaller the bullet the harder (BHN) youre going to have to run them as youre reaching the speed maximum for most reasonable alloys that regular folks have or make. I consider myself regular. NOE, MP Molds and Arsenal molds all make good 308 molds in the 170-200 grain weight range. Look to Arsenal first. I would get traditional lube grooves over the little thin ones like on mine.
Or even better, and in these crazy times probably faster....go to Accurate molds and have a 3 cavity mold cut with two PB and one GC cavities of the same bullet. Any of the 4 above are a lifetime buy.
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AJC1
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The small banded one looks like a lee tumble lube. They are great in pistol but I'm guessing having meaty driving bands for rifle pressure and velosity helps keep them from stripping.
bluejay75
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Correct. Most Ranchdog style molds were built to be tumble lubed this the micros on that Bullet. That’s why I had to go deeper in the case. Powder coat made the nose too fat. But those micro grooves hold more powder coat as well ensuring they make the ride down the barrel without stripping off. You have to run micro groove molds hotter to make them look perfect.
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AJC1
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Test loads made up and dillion taper crimp applied as that was my only option. Rounds will be shot Saturday hopefully so I can post feedback. This is the unique batch
here is the 4227 batch
todays total production with load data.
here is the 4227 batch
todays total production with load data.
bluejay75
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https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/308-311/311-184-fn-j5/311-184-fn-j5-4-cavity-pb-311041/
https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/308-311/311-190-fn-ak4/311-190-fn-ak4-5-cavity-gc-30-hunter/
https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/308-311/sc311-171-rf-i3/sc311-171-rf-i3-5-cavity-pb-rd/
I would buy any one of these. I shoot a NOE 30 caliber for a reason. I honcho for MP Molds. That should tell you something. MP reigns for pistol and their rifle molds are great...just limited in selection. NOE has a wider selection of rifle bullets molds.
One last tip. Start with a clean barrel. Completely clean. Any fouling IS NOT YOUR FRIEND.
Don’t ask me how I know...but you can build loads in a fouled barrel that won’t shoot good when you finally clean it.
https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/308-311/311-190-fn-ak4/311-190-fn-ak4-5-cavity-gc-30-hunter/
https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/308-311/sc311-171-rf-i3/sc311-171-rf-i3-5-cavity-pb-rd/
I would buy any one of these. I shoot a NOE 30 caliber for a reason. I honcho for MP Molds. That should tell you something. MP reigns for pistol and their rifle molds are great...just limited in selection. NOE has a wider selection of rifle bullets molds.
One last tip. Start with a clean barrel. Completely clean. Any fouling IS NOT YOUR FRIEND.
Don’t ask me how I know...but you can build loads in a fouled barrel that won’t shoot good when you finally clean it.
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AJC1
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Me and my boy alternated on the gun. First 4 groups were 5 shots and the last was 10 because he was done. The primary mission of recoil reduction was definately accomplished. I am trying to figure out what the realistic accuracy expectations should be. Not winning any matches with these loads. Open to any comments good bad or otherwise. Having a conagraph would be a nice tool right about now and it's on the list.
I can relate to that.
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AJC1
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4227 ladder lowest to highest.
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AJC1
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The bore was freshly cleaned so I make no claim it was perfect but nothing was shot in between. There are some bullets in this pile with bulges in the gas checks, none of them were used during this test for fear of even worse groups. The charge weight shifts were much higher than ideal imo due to covering as much ground as possible entering into a complete unknown. I am trying now to figure out what my expectations should be vise saying the groups did not meet an arbitrary expectation. My ladder never crossed the mid point of the load data so going lower is not possible.
Charlie98
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Do you have a mic to measure what those bullets are sized at?
What distances were those shot at? Obviously, some were better than others, but I see some reasonable groups... Remember, less velocity can mean less bullet stability in some rifles.
What distances were those shot at? Obviously, some were better than others, but I see some reasonable groups... Remember, less velocity can mean less bullet stability in some rifles.
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AJC1
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I do all my testing at 100 yards to make everything easy and relatable to previous tests. Please elaborate on which you think is a better than the rest group. I think I like one but intrested if it's the same and why.
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AJC1
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Not even close. This rifle was built around 175 SMKs and it's a long way off.
Charlie98
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3rd photo in the 1st lot of pics... with 6D next to the group. It shows the tightest group and reasonable dispersion. Some of the groups show vertical stringing, and some horizontal stringing... which can be indicators, or not.
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AJC1
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We picked the same one that's 13.8 grains of unique. Every one of the unique loads recoiled the least over 4227 so the boy liked them better. I did not want his affinity to cloud my better judgment.
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