Shooting Doubles With Pumpguns...

[Dave McCracken]

The Geezer Squad does a lot of shooting. Some of it is done with shotguns, some just the breeze...

The latter was happening, after a couple rounds of trap doubles, and a round of our version of Chinese Trap.

This consists of using a standard trap launcher and shooting from Skeet Stations and wherever else we deign. The last 5 shots are near the fence, and a leisurely swing means one better have in a Full Choke and lots of moxie.

It's a fun game with full use of the shotgun, meaning single targets can be missed twice. Since the GS gang runs heavy on fine doubleguns, this encourages using two shots if there's a shootable piece of target left after the first.

One of the double fans said something to the effect that he respected anyone that could shuck a pumpgun. Doug H and I looked at each other and grinned. One of us,doesn't matter which, said it came naturally after a few thousand shots.

Doug's a retired Marine NCO. He's as fond of Model 12s as I am 870s, and we kid each other a little. He usually shoots a bit higher scores, but I was high gun on doubles this time. He shot 23/25 at Chinese, which speaks well of his abilities. Lots of those shots are well nigh crossers at odd angles.

We chewed this around. Doug hasn't shot bunker trap (Olympic) and I mentioned that I found that game the only one where I didn't have enough time to get that second shot off effectively. For those who haven't shot Bunker, American trap targets leave the house at 55 MPH. Bunker targets scream out at 85 to 110.

We also chicken or egged a question.

Do we work our pumps of choice quickly because they are slick shuckers or are they slick because we shoot them lots?

The jury's still out on that one. As for the shuck on either my TB or Doug's 1948 vintage Model 12 Trap, the word that best describes them is....

BUTTER....

Later, in the clubhouse I ran across a shooter I know. He's AA at SC and a terrific guy. He mentioned he was shooting a round with his BPS instead of his DT-10. Naturally, I asked why.

He said that cycling his pump broke him of steering with his forward hand.

He uses the BPS (His waterfowler) to also work on his swing, it has less inertia than his 32" barreled O/U with extended chokes.

Anyway, while a pumpgun may be at a disadvantge for some clay games, it doesn't seem to be a major one. Probably, IMO, it's less of a handicap than shoddy shells,dirty shooting glasses or laziness.

Questions, Comments, Donations?....

 

[ArmedBear]

I can be quite lazy. My beat, cheap hunting sunglasses that I sometimes use for clay shooting when it's sunny because I just haven't bothered to replace them are damn near opaque through parts of my field of view. And some of my shells are kinda funny. Okay, they were when I started reloading. Most of them are perfect now, unless I run out of wads and use some off-size wads from the back of my box-o-reload-crap for the rest of the box.

Hell, I shoot with a guy who is a PHENOMENAL trapshooter, and he's notorious for reloading hulls 'til the crimp petals fall off, then reloading them once or twice more with the help of Scotch tape.

But somehow, when I put on my good shooting glasses, load up with new STS's or my really good handloads that are probably better than those, and really act diligent I don't seem to shoot any better, with whatever gun.

But, I shot doubles trap with a bottom-of-the-line 870 Express against a few decently-skilled guys with O/U's. My score was in the middle of the squad and 3 behind the leader, and that was the first time I'd shot trap doubles. That would support your assertion.

However, not all doubles are trap doubles. 5-stand, for example, can require much more quick range of motion, for some doubles targets, like, say, a right rabbit and a hard left bird.

I tend to choke up on my trap gun just a bit more than a pump foreend will allow, because I get the best motion in my upper body that way. I don't have gorilla arms by any means. So, a pump can be a bit of a handicap. Add the time it takes to shuck (and I've been told I'm one of the fastest shuckers at a range full of very experienced shotgunners), and some of those more challenging double Sporting Clay targets are really tough to hit!

Now, a pump with shells that are specifically sized to feed best in it (I do that now), and a cool head, can certainly narrow the gap. But when the O/U guys or the low-recoil semiauto guys can pop off two quick shots, before that rabbit rolls too far and the bird is too far away and dropping fast, they most definitely have an advantage.

I'd say that using a pump gun for those muddy sporting shoots where you have to put your Cherokee in 4WD can be really good training for real-world hunting conditions. But the really good guys with their tricked-out sporting clays guns have a bit of an advantage when it comes to the final score -- an advantage that may not transfer well to hunting, if they don't have their 56-way adjustable stock, magazine cap weight, etc.

Kinda like I refuse to wear a f---ing DOT on my glasses to shoot trap. What does that teach me, other than that I can't shoot without a dot?

So I guess, in the final analysis, I don't know how much of a handicap it is to shoot a pump vs. using opaque glasses or crap shells.

 

[TrapperReady]

Dave - I think it all comes down to what you consider an acceptable handicap. I shoot pumpguns pretty routinely (most of my hunting and frequent rounds of sporting clays and 5-stand). For a typical 5-stand setup, I will average 20-21 of 25 targets with a pump. With an O/U or an autoloader, I'll tend to average 22-23. I find that depending upon the course, my scores will drop anywhere from 1 to 4 targets per 50 for sporting clays.

If I'm just out having fun, that's totally fine. If I'm paying an entry fee and trying to win some money, then it's totally unacceptable. I shot a 100 target tournament last weekend and won my class, which provided a little money and an upgrade punch. If I'd dropped two aditional targets, I'd have gotten neither.

If I consider the state shoot from last year, there was a well-attended pump event. Lots of people shot well, indicating that they not only owned and shot pump-guns, but were quite proficient. However, I did not see a single pump being used in ANY of the other 12ga events. If anyone thought that a pump would be an advantage, they'd use it. Instead, O/Us and autoloaders are the norm.

 

[sm]

One of these days... Dave is gonna get a 870 in 28 ga, and doubles events in skeet and similar his new addiction.

I played the serious games sanctioned and otherwise. I really enjoyed the doubles events, triple events were a hoot!

Yep! I really did burn score cards, and go Rebel, Outlaw, Mustang [ pick one] on sanctioned shoots. I / We'd shoot NC and end up going up against a A , AA in the shoot-offs. I /We didn't care, pressure on the classed folks. I/we was having fun. I/we may run a box in shootoff, and then turn and tell RO, other shooters - "going to stop now, appreciate meeting you, and honor to have learned from shooting with you". Not even try to hit the next bird. They had score cards, sponsors, whatever.

On non-sanctioned shoots...every shooter for themselves, even for the classed folks showed up *grin*
"No score cards here, now that hat over their, or that fella putting up money for a kid in need...or sorry man/lady, pot is right and one must do what one must do"

Money Gun is a 870 in 28ga. Earned that nickname by those of us that used/ shared it. No safety in that trigger group for 'serious fun' "smirk" .


Pump guns have a phenonomen not known to shooters that do not shoot them. Dave mentioned it - timing and re-aquiring the target. The other platforms make it too easy to shoot without getting on target.

I am not the only one that has "played the game" now having fun and not worrying about classes, scores or anything.

Even in my "non-sanctioned" shoots - pressure was on.

I always looked forward to the pump gun only events. Then again I looked forward to the single shot shotgun events- Serious fun.

The again been known to get to low 7 , motion for a kid to come out and shoot that station for me with his single shot

Fun is watching Trap shooters shooting single shotguns, even pair up to take doubles only shoots. Ages from 25 to 80 and they got younger with each shot fired.

I have a competitive nature, learned young not to take myself too serious, nor the game, nor the scores. I had to re-learn this a few times in various levels I attained. Each time I quit being "so serious" and relaxed and had fun - my scores went up.

Parallel IMO.

Learning to shoot a Revolver DA only makes one a better shooter - period. Even if they choose to transition to another platform later.

Pump guns do the same thing.

Steve

 

[PJR]

Do we work our pumps of choice quickly because they are slick shuckers or are they slick because we shoot them lots?

The correct answer to that question is yes. Both are factors.

He said that cycling his pump broke him of steering with his forward hand.

That's not a habit he wants to break. Every instructor I know from Andy Duffy to the folks at Holland and Holland say you should steer with your forward hand not the rear.

I like to shoot my pump gun at clays. It's fun and the transition is no more difficult than going to a twin trigger, auto safety sxs. I can move among the various configurations without much trouble. Because my pump gun's primary duties is predator control I like to get it out for practice once a month at least.

But if I'm shooting for score I'll take my o/u.

 

[45auto]

As mentioned, I think the pump is a big disadvantage in some of the clay target sports where the targets are faster, more doubles, distance, etc.
But, they are fun!

In other sports, I don't see much of a disadvantage at all. I've seen some of the "shuckers" work the action like they were born with it and would be crazy to change.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Thanks, folks. A couple things...

Bear, true pairs, following pairs and report pairs are what we shoot. Report pairs are relatively easy, following pairs(as a general rule) less so and true pairs, AKA simos, tend to be the hardest. Pairs requiring lots of gun movement to get on the second bird up the difficulty.

One pair at PGC consists of a going away straight overhead standard and a jumping teal off 30 degrees to the side. As a report pair, it's not that bad. As a following pair with the overhead first, it's much harder. As a true pair, it'd make a preacher cuss.

I find 5 stand about the hardest game due to the pairs presented and the compressed nature of the game. SC gives a little more time between stations and one can decompress.

Also I see you are both observant and a reader of Shotgun Sports magazine.

Steve, maybe a 28 will up the fun factor. Dunno if having more fun at my age and degree of decay is wise. Only one way to find out.

TR, agreed. If one is a steely-eyed grim jawed target shark to whom 99/100 is unacceptable, mayhap a pump is not a good choice. But, I am out there to have max fun with the shotguns I have and like.

Were I taking SC competition as seriously as I used to do other shooting sports, I'd probably have an O/U, a bucket full of choke tubes and an ulcer. If money allowed now, I'd have a good O/U. But such is not to be until Son gets these last two years of college behind him.

Paul, the steering comment kinda puzzled me also. He shoots like a machine, and based on past experience I think he means not pushing the comb away from his cheek on left to right shots.

45, agreed on fun. And that's what its all about, right?....

 

[sm]

Oh Dave....!
I might not be as good as I once was
Still good once as I ever was...
-Toby Keith


:_pump shotgun smilie_:


Steve

 

[TrapperReady]

Dave - The very nature of sporting clays is the major reason why I compete. It's OK to miss once in a while... everybody does it. It's not like trap or skeet where perfection is expected. That simple difference is enough to cut down on the ulcers and keep things fun.

BTW, I've developed a pattern for major shoots. First of all, I train like mad for a couple weeks preceeding the shoot, but make sure to taper in the week beforehand. Then, I shoot the event... one target at a time. Typically, when I'm all done, I'm a little fatigued and don't want to shoot much.

Fortunately, I've got a cure -- a Winchester Model 42 to be exact. In the week after a major shoot, I make sure to get out and shoot a couple rounds with the little gun. It never fails to put a smile on my face and helps get my head straight again, so that I can begin the training/competition cycle over again.

I do this in a larger scale over the entire year by simply hunting during the fall. I hardly shoot any clays from the middle of September until the beginning of January. When I do shoot the occasional round, I'll make sure to use a gun that I'm hunting with.

 

[Dave McCracken]

TR, I've shot SC with target sharks that were having absolutely no fun. One was so uptight that he squeaked when walking. After hearing him whine about a presentation, I mentioned that the shotgun I used to hit the pair he just missed cost less than the Brileys in his muzzles. He was off his average and I've not shot with him since. Small loss...

I've also shot with superb shots that had as much fun as legally allowed. Laughing and talking in between stations but all biz when in the box. Those are the men and women I want to shoot with. And, I shot better.

And those folks rarely seem to mind me shooting a pump. I have been offered a handful of O/Us and autos to "Try Out", but that's also part of the fun.

I like your pattern. Back when I would burn out on 3 gun or benchrest, a session or two of plinking with a slide action 22 or my old HS Trophy Citation would refresh me.

And hunting then and now is the best rejuvenation this side of monkey glands.

Steve, as I mentioned to a young lout not too long ago, an old dog may still have one good bite left....