Shooting for sport...Just cant do it.

[Comblocaddict]

So I hunt each season and the guys are always talking about their kills. Typical, ya.

Sure I kill whats in season, what I will eat. But there are always those folks around here talking about their kills they mount, im talking things they kill just to hang up. Like Bobcat for one.

Recently I was talking about with a buddy about his bobcat he was getting a mount done on. I went on to talk about the "one"(bobcat) I saw about 25 yards from me in the tall grass stalking something. I just watched him till he wondered off and it was really a nice experience. I couldnt bring myself to kill it, they are amazing and beautiful. But the responses I get are, "why didnt you shoot it!!". I guess Im just ranting, I dont know exactly what my point here is...

Other than I just wasnt raised that way, I eat what I kill. Not only that, I enjoy watching the other wildlife. I dont hunt just to kill, I go hunting because I enjoy seeing the wildlife around me.

Is there as many out there like me as it seems there is that hunt just for sport? It seems im surrounded by them and they act as if im crazy when I dont pull the trigger on everything i see.

 

[splattergun]

Some people will eat the meat of predators. Some won't. I don't assume a trophy hunter will automatically waste the meat.

On the other hand, scavengers and lower life forms need to eat, too.

 

[snakeman]

You must not hunt in sheep country...

 

[Arkansas Paul]

There are reasons to shoot bobcats, coyotes and the like if you are a serious hunter. It's not about just going out and shooting everything you see.

I have never killed a bobcat, but I will the second I get the chance. They kill animals that I like to hunt like rabbits, squirrels turkey and even fawns. You can walk for days around here anymore and not scare up a covey of quail, partly because of bobcats eating them.

If you don't want to kill them, I respect that and it is absolutely your perogative, but don't assume that everybody that does kill them are just trigger happy sport hunters. There are valid reasons. And I absolutely agree with you about eating what you kill, or giving it to someone who will. I just make an exception for predators.

 

[snakeman]

Well said Paul

 

[Comblocaddict]

You do have a really good point Paul. I guess I never thought of it that way because I dont have to worry about it where I am. There is plenty of what im hunting for in balance with the other wildlife. There is deffinately need/reason for balance.

 

[Snag]

I totally sympathize with what the op is saying.

Although I was never into having things mounted, from the age of 12 to about 30 I'd slay anything. Deer, bear, coyotes, jack rabbits, racoons, porcupines, whatever. The deer, bear, and stuff ended up on the dinner plate but that's about it. With the predators I used to tell myself things like "I better kill this coyote cause he been hanging round the orchard giving the stank eye to the mules" or "this porcupine has got to go before the dogs get tangled up with him" or "racoons are gonna eat the chickens so kill em' all". Preemptive strike kind of attitude. Truth was the coyotes never attacked the mules. The dogs, all the ones I've had anyway, steered well clear of porcupines and I just needed build a better damn fence around the chickens. Fishing it was the same way, I never used to catch and release.

No idea where or when the mind set changed but I don't hunt anymore and I catch and release 90% of the time. The want for dead animal heads on your wall is morbid, to me anyway. Taxidermy is a art form though, I don't have that kind of skill.

I probably stopped hunting because as time went by I watched the rest of the world press in on what once was the middle of nowhere. The frontier attitude is very much alive and things change, not always for the better depending on your point of view.

 

[wankerjake]

I agree with AR Paul. For many there are plenty of reasons to shoot them. Sport is one of the reasons we all hunt. It's part of it. If it wasn't fun, we wouldn't do it. It doesn't make it wrong, it's just the way nature works; predators kill things.

Not only that, I enjoy watching the other wildlife. I dont hunt just to kill, I go hunting because I enjoy seeing the wildlife around me.

So do I, I love being out there. I love seeing other animals that I'm not hunting. The kill isn't always the best part of a hunt. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. But just because I shoot an animal I'm hunting doesn't mean I don't appreciate it. Bobcats are a good example. It's awesome having a bobcat come to a call. I love it. I also enjoy bagging one.

If you have no use for bobcat meat or pelts or mounts, and wouldn't care to shoot one then don't shoot. That's fair. But it's an awesome experience for some of us.

Bobcats are very tasty by the way, I've eaten both the ones I've killed. They also look nice on my wall. I hardly consider my shooting a bobcat a waste at all. Great memories and great table fare. Two of my fondest hunting memories are the two bobcats I've killed. One's on my wall (pic attatched), the other is at the tannery due back in a month.

People ignorant to hunting always ask me what i'm doing over the upcoming weekend and I'll say "I'm going to look for elk." The typical conversation goes something like this:
Them: "What are you doing this weekend, Wanker?"

Me: "I'm going to go look for elk on Saturday morning."

Them: "oh you're going to shoot some elk? I thought it wasn't hunting season right now."

Me: "No, I'm going to look at them. Because they are neat."

Them: "Oh. Why would you do that if you aren't going to shoot them? Wait, you are just going to look at them?"

My conclusion is that most people who don't hunt, don't really care about wild animals. They certainly don't go and view them, they just say things like "I love elk, I could never kill one." The only time they've ever seen an elk is from the highway

Hunters, including sport hunters, have a greater investment in the overall well being of wild animals. I hunt for many reasons. I love everything about it. I eat just about everything except coyotes. Regardless of what I'm hunting, sport is a big part of it. Everybody has a little different way of doing things and everybody should only do things they are comfortable with, but I've learned that what may not be appropriate for me is a great opportunity for someone else. And vice versa.

 

[buck460XVR]

Comblocaddict....what you are seeing is the difference between a hunter/sportsman and a shooter. Many times it is a progression in a hunters life, as Snag so artfully put it. While I still hunt, I don't do the killing like I used to. I too enjoy watching animals in the wild doing what they do, and have found many times that enjoyment received from not shooting and letting them live to watch them another day is more than the enjoyment received from pulling the trigger. This is true of predators also. This year I shot two coyotes that came into my calls/decoys while turkey hunting. I also let two others go after watching them embarrass themselves by attacking a piece of foam on a stick. I figure taking 50% was enough predator control.

Sometimes that "shoot 'em all" attitude comes back to bite you in the backside. Several years ago the state of Wisconsin was issuing unlimited antlerless tags for $2 a piece. Many folks were shooting everything they saw, to the point they were letting the meat go to waste since the local food pantries had already taken all they could handle. When asked why they continued to shoot, these folks replied "cause we can!". These are the same folks the last few years are crying cause there's no deer left in the areas they hunt. Of course it's the DNR's fault and of course, those damn wolves.

As a hunter, I have much more respect for those hunters that will pass on an animal that they don't need to shoot as opposed to those that shoot whatever they have a opportunity to. But for young hunters and those new to the sport I give them a pass to shoot whatever they want, as long as they do it legally and ethically. My experience is that many of those that have never grown outta that "shoot 'em all" attitude, are the ones that feel the need to bend or break regs to get the job done.

 

[jmr40]

Do you eat the roaches, mice and rats you kill? Some predators have no natural enemies and human sport shooters are the only thing that keeps their numbers in check. When predators start eating your dogs, cats and attacking your small children you'll understand why it is necessary to kill some animals for purposes other than eating them.

They also kill and eat rather large numbers of other animals that we do hunt for food. Deer and turkey populations are way down because we have too many coyotes here. Crows eat millions of dollars worth of grain raised for human consumption.

 

[Snag]

My conclusion is that people who don't hunt, don't really care about wild animals.

I think that is an unfair assumption. Perhaps if it said people who have never hunted I might agree.

 

[wankerjake]

How about:
My conclusion is that most people who don't hunt, don't really care about wild animals.

Of course it was a generalization and is not true 100% of the time.

 

[X-Rap]

I would say to consider the huge biomass that is removed/consumed by hunters each year either for food or for sport and what the world would look like if these various species were to be allowed to run amok.
There are some species like wild horses that have somehow gained protected status and are now consuming huge resources that would otherwise go to native animals both game and non game.
Other domestics like feral hogs, cats, dogs, and reptiles are devastating wildlife then there are wild animals that if not kept in check over populate and eventually succumb to disease of starvation while endangering both humans and animals.
Nature has been changed by man and we have an obligation to try to keep things in balance.

 

[420Stainless]

If I see a bobcat and am not too worried about spooking the deer I'll take it just for the mount. After that I doubt I'd take another, but as long as they're common I don't have a problem with others exercising predator control. I've seen several, but its always been at first light and I don't want to disturb the stand set up that early.

 

[snakeman]

We have sheep. I shoot predators on sight. I do it to protect our livelihood and the deer and quail populations. This iis somethign that most people don't understand.

 

[der Teufel]

We have sheep. I shoot predators on sight. I do it to protect our livelihood and the deer and quail populations. This iis somethign that most people don't understand.

I have a couple of places where I hunt hogs. The landowners are friends, and they're happy (delighted!) to have someone they know trying to take out the hogs. These people raise crops and cattle.

In both instances, when I was initially given permission to hunt hogs, they added "Shoot every coyote you see!"

 

[Comblocaddict]

Let me clarify. I may have come across over exagerating it. I completley understand thinning out nuisance animals and protecting your livelihood such as crops and farm animals. Specifically hogs, I understand how damaging those animals are to land and crops.

 

[cottswald]

Hunters, including sport hunters, have a greater investment in the overall well being of wild animals. I hunt for many reasons. I love everything about it. I eat just about everything except coyotes. Regardless of what I'm hunting, sport is a big part of it. Everybody has a little different way of doing things and everybody should only do things they are comfortable with, but I've learned that what may not be appropriate for me is a great opportunity for someone else. And vice versa.

Down right well said Wanker!

 

[Snag]

Shoot every coyote you see!

I just can't bring myself to pull the trigger on something that hasn't proven on an individual level to be a threat to me or my property.

 

[MCgunner]

My cousin-in-law is a trophy hunter, flies to Alaska and Africa and here and there shooting trophies, the meat usually going to indigenous people. He keeps the head, has an envious trophy room in his house. He's a podiatrist with a successful private practice and has more money than sense, but he has a good time. I don't begrudge him hunting how he wants. He doesn't like game and, frankly, what little venison I've eaten from him (he has an expensive south Texas trophy lease), he doesn't prep the meat worth a toot, gamey as hell, so I can see why. His boy hunts their place near Seguin, Texas and kills a deer now and then, they just leave the hogs lay for the buzzards. That's quite an acceptable thing in Texas. He thinks I'm goofy for trapping and eating hogs off my place. No biggy, but hey, I love 'em. I love to BBQ hogs. Try that with venison and, well, boot leather comes to mind. I make most of my hogs into sausage, though, love my smoked sausage, hat to brag, but, well, no I don't.

I've seen lots of bobcat I could have shot, but I don't. I have a thing for cats and they're just way cool to watch in the field, but then, I don't keep livestock on my place, either. I have shot feral dogs and coyotes off the place. The coyotes were targets of opportunity and, at the time, I just wanted to kill something. Dogs, feral dogs, are the most destructive animal out there and I've found deer skeletons in tact I suspect dogs killed because a coyote or cat would have scattered the bones, but, could have been someones errant shot on the place next door or something, who knows? But, I hate feral dogs. I'd shoot a bobcat if I wanted to mount the rug, just hasn't ever been a particular desire of mine. And, I really don't go after predators as a sport, not my thing. What I REALLY enjoy above all other hunting is wing shooting, waterfowl and doves mostly. I do eat 'em, but it's the hunt that I do it for. The meat is just a bonus. So, being I'm rather illogically hooked on wing shooting, how could I begrudge someone who's illogically hooked on predator hunting? No, I wouldn't and most don't eat cats and song dogs, but there's no law you have to eat what you shoot, not even an ethos unless you just dreamed it up to justify your love for killing....okay, that's a might strong and PETAish, love for the hunt.

 

[Sniper66]

I am 65 and some of my peers, both older and younger, have stopped hunting, but still buy and shoot guns. I have heard at least 3 friends say they don't like killing anymore. But, most old friends stopped hunting because they don't like the discomfort of a duck blind during a snowstorm or the cold wind in a winter tree stand. That has not happened to me yet and hopefully won't, but I respect my friends' decisions to go a different way, just as they respect my hobby of shooting prairie dogs and other varmints. I have gravitated toward p-dogs, fall squirrels, spring turkeys, doves...you'll notice these are all fair weather hunts. I will shoot bobcats, feral dogs, coyotes, coons, and possums on my family's farm because they have killed lots of their cats and chickens and have raided the cats food stores if they get the chance and coyotes have killed some small calves. All the other stuff I eat or give to someone who wants it. Actually, I have never killed a bobcat, but have shot several coyotes around the farm, mostly when I am checking cattle with my niece's husband during the birthing season. He checks cattle and I ride shotgun.

 

[Texan Scott]

Just my personal view....

I don't think animals have rights. I do believe people have responsibilities to their families, their communities, and to animals in their care.

There is a strong statistical correlation between animal cruelty and violent crime. People who abuse animals for 'fun' often make little or no distinction between animals and people as objects of opportunistic abuse.

I don't believe hunting (even for sport and trophy alone) falls into this category, even if it appears that the hunter has no regard for the animal's life, death, or pain, precisely because the hunter clearly does distinguish between animal and human life, and because the animal's suffering (which good hunters minimize for practical as well as ethical reasons) is secondary to the purpose. The hunter is not trying to cause the animal unnecessary suffering, only its death. Whether hunting the animal is necessary or not, the animal's death is a necessary result of hunting it.

I personally don't collect heads for the wall. (as in Silence of the Lambs: "Most serial killers keep some kind of trophy from their victims." "I didn't." "No, you ate yours." ) Personally, I have no qualms about killing anything that A) I intend to eat, or B) just needs to be killed for some reason, e.g. population control, disease, danger, damage to property, or depredation of crops or livestock.

Some people hunt for the challenge alone. I don't. My life is challenging enough, tyvm. I may not understand people who hunt for trophies, but I cast no moral aspersions on them, either.

 

[T.R.]

I was raised same way. God's animals must not be killed for vanity. I've taken a few trophies (mostly luck) and had them mounted. But the real trophy has always been on the dinner plate.

I'm not against trophy hunters; just doesn't match my values.

TR

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Some people hunt for the challenge alone. I don't. My life is challenging enough, tyvm. I may not understand people who hunt for trophies, but I cast no moral aspersions on them, either.

Yes I agree, I don't understand the need seek out a game animal as a trophy to mount on the wall..., any more than my close friends who do just that can understand why I don't want several trophies mounted on my wall.

I do take photographs of some of my deer harvests..., is it because I am Scottish and frugal (or as some of my friends say, "cheap")??

I know that folks who spend lavish amounts of cash to go overseas to harvest dangerous game for trophy purposes spread a lot of cash around in areas that can use the money. I don't begrudge folks who do that..., it just isn't my "thing". Heck anyplace where one goes today and spends money on a trophy hunt can use the cash, eh?

I think "we" need to be careful that folks who do not comprehend the hunt, or who are openly against hunting, don't succeed in breaking us into small groups that are then not united in favor of hunting, i.e. by getting us to label ourselves as, trophy hunters, vs. meat hunters, vs. bird hunters, or some such tactic.

LD

 

[jmorris]

I have killed things I wouldn't eat. I have even killed friendly animals but that was mostly to prevent suffering. To each their own i guess, the older I get the more I tend to buy food and enjoy conversation over packing meat when I hunt with friends. That maybe why I enjoy dove hunting so much, you can clean they days bounty while the AC cools down the truck. Too bad it takes all season for enough to have a cookout.