Shooting just for fun?

[Gryffydd]

Then open up your own range and have at it.

That's what I'd say to those who are so determined that everybody else MUST utilize the range in a particular way they approve of.

If everyone read the OP's first post, it was the actions of many spray and pray shooters that got the 2 second rule instituted, not the OP himself. So before you start wanking on us old guys because you can't play with your toys the way you want, look at yourself for the cause of the restrictions.

Right, because it's people like Justin, BullfrogKen and Walkalong are the ones who are responsible for ranges instituting these restrictions.

It may not have been the OP who got the 2 second rule instituted, but any way you slice it it's a similar mindset to what the antis use. It's not about safety, it's about forcing behavior they approve of. If it was about safety they'd just boot anybody who was being unsafe. People can be unsafe at 1 round per minute and they can be perfectly safe dumping a whole mag as fast as they can.

 

[BullfrogKen]

Right, because it's people like Justin, BullfrogKen and Walkalong are the ones who are responsible for ranges instituting these restrictions.

Actually, you're not too far off the mark from that one.


I was President and Chairman of the Board of my local 1,500 member-sized gun club until the begining of this year.

If everyone read the OP's first post, it was the actions of many spray and pray shooters that got the 2 second rule instituted, not the OP himself. So before you start wanking on us old guys because you can't play with your toys the way you want, look at yourself for the cause of the restrictions.

Nope. I first looked at the individual shooter. If he did something stupid or unsafe, he was gone. Right then and there. We then would hold a hearing and vote at the next meeting to revoke his membership. If he were there for a club-sponsored event, match, or activity, then I'd investigate to see if those in charge of the event contributed to the problem. If they were, then I dealt with them.


Never once did I attribute one person's lack of ability to an entire group. That's what anti-gunners do.

Personal responsibility means personal responsibility. Everyone's skills and abilities are different. They also evolve over time. Demonstrate or otherwise prove you can be trusted, and you will be. Simple as that.

 

[Gryffydd]

Actually, you're not too far off the mark from that one.
I was President and Chairman of the Board of my local 1,500 member-sized gun club until the begining of this year.

Which is a long shot from:

it was the actions of many spray and pray shooters that got the 2 second rule instituted

This is apparently the group we must be in if we don't like the 2 second rule...

 

[Rob G]

Most of this seems to be young men under 40ish, all have the black auto pistols, and almost all the shooters seem intent only on the combat aspect of shooting. How many rounds can be pumped into a man sized target at 7 yards?

That would be me I guess. I'm under 40, all my pistols are black (I don't like flashy guns), and I do focus a lot on combat training because I only get to the range once a month (if that often) and those skills require constant upkeep. I'm also in college, have a ponytail, drive a German car, and I'm pretty good at call of duty. Not sure how many other stereotypes I fit but I thought I'd toss a few extra out there.

That having been said I've been shooting since I was 10, Spent a good portion of my teen years as an Assistant Range Master at a Boy Scout camp (was too young to be the chief), and qualified as a pistol and shotgun expert in my Police Academy class at 21. (long story why I'm not still doing that) In short I'm an experienced and SAFE shooter who happens to fit most of the OPs stereotypes for bad shooting. And I really resent people that try and tell me that I'm bad for their sport.

I understand about being annoyed by unsolicited range advice, I don't give it myself, and I shoo off people that try to give it to me. But as long as I'm following all the safety rules then I don't see how what I'm doing is a problem.

And for the record when the black guns go away, and if I have time for it, out comes my 50 year old, iron sight only, Mossberg bolt action .22 because I do love hitting objects at 100+ yards that are too small for many people to see.

 

[KAS1981]

Funny post.

I've noticed this trend with bolt-action rifles as well. It's all about "tactical" synthetic stocks, ridiculously hefty bull-barrels, and the never-ending obsession with "groups". All this while shooting no further out than 100 yards.

I think all the wannabe Soldier of Fortune stuff can get pretty silly, but like others have said, if they're having fun and not bothering me, then whatever. Go for it.

 

[Jason_W]

It might also be important to point out that it's unfair to judge a person by the firearm they choose to shoot.

As of now, most of my guns are black and "tacticool" not because I want to play soldier, but because a lot of those synthetic stocked guns are perfect utility guns for hunting in the rough stuff.

When someone looks at my benelli Nova tactical with the ghost rings sights, they probably think "mall ninja", but I really just figured it would make a good durable slug chucker for close range deer hunting in the brush. It won't matter much if I drop it.

After years of being a revolver shooter, I bought my first semi-auto pistol, a Glock 20 in 10mm. I shoot better with that than any revolver I've tried in the past due to the fact the gun happens to be a perfect fit for my hand.

 

[gaweidert]

I like to break thing when I shoot. Clays at 50 and 100 yards do it for me. Bouncing s golf ball around the backstop is fun too. I do occasionally shoot holes through paper, but once I am sighted in plinking is the way to go for me.

 

[mrbro]

The Judge is not old or young and doesn't shoot modern or old. He represents an attitude that does not represent us well, IMHO. He's loud, obnoxious, crude, likely to have his stuff spread out on 3 or 4 benches and in no hurry to move, insists on telling you his latest off color joke, and is always willing to tell someone what they're doing wrong or how whatever they bought is junk. He's also the guy most likely to muzzle sweep you or to be handling his rifle while people are down range.

We really don't care what anyone else shoots or how they shoot it. We're not there to flaunt our latest acquisition or to demonstrate superior knowledge. We go to kill clay pigeons and ring steel. We go to have fun and to spend a little quality time together.

 

[bcp280z]

I'm young but I don't buy into the tacticool crap, it maybe cause I'm young and can't afford it, it maybe 'cause most of it I find silly, to kinda answer your post, I like shooting for fun, I much prefer to drive 2hrs away to my family's land where the only law is my own, rapid fire is fun, akimbo fire is pointless, but it's still fun, shooting at cans and trash and trees and old junk rotting out in the field is fun, shooting my 22 is fun, so is my 45-70. having friendly one up competitions, "who can hit that way out there" is fun, and I'm sure if I could afford it FA fire would be fun.

The past few shooting trips have consisted as that and trying out new purchaces, each time I brush up on the 7-10yds shooting with my carry weapons but since I know I'm above decent with it I don't fixate my whole day on it, just about 30rds through each ccw piece.

Fact o the matter is everyone has their own idea of fun, yours may differ from mine, mine may differ from joe's. Just as long as everyone is being fairly safe whilst having fun with these toys and tools we call guns is all that matters too me, at least they're out there doing something somewhat constructive for America eh?

I'd say don't let it get to ya, try to go else where if it really bugs ya, or if it comes to it, start your own club or buy yourself a plot, but I don't think there's much we can do to change other's beliefs on fun.

 

[Geckgo]

why does it bother some people so much when they see a bunch of extra stuff on a rifle that they don't even own?

why does it bother some people so much when they see someone sitting at a bench plinking?

why does it bother some people so much when they see someone shooting too fast/slow for their own personal taste?

The world may never know.

 

[Dookie]

I plink with a new tactical 22. Those eggs and golf balls don't stand a chance.

People who are really into cowboy style shooting grew up watching westerns. They don't make westerns anymore. They make tactical, sniper and similar style movies (and games). Guess what we emulate?

Plinking is a great form of training. Gets you comfortable with a gun and teaches how to shoot offhand, I would not consider bench shooting with a rimfire plinking.

Mel Gibson and Steven Segal? 20 years ago How about Mark Walberg and Jet Li.

 

[RyanAnchors]

I'm not huge on the whole tactical thing myself, but as long as people are being safe it is none of my business what they do at the range.

I like the "black tactical guns" (whatever that means, I think you just mean modern firearms of recent design and production).
I mean, even if you are talking about ARs, those were invented...before I was born.

On the other coin, I also collect C&Rs and I have my FFL03. I like to target shoot (precision/plinking/defensive).

They are all fun.
If someone is having fun with their ridiculous full-body BDUs and 27 lasers attached to their rifle, more power to them.
I prefer simplicity personally (even in the "black" guns).

I really don't care if someone sits there and runs drills all day with their rifle, if that makes them happy then fine. Personally, I prefer plinking myself.

P.S. All the ranges here have a one shot per second rule and it is stupid. I usually just go to the desert to shoot.
Like you said, it isn't all about tactical/precision shooting and sometimes I just want to bump-fire a magazine through my AK first thing to get it out of my system for the day. This helps me resist rapid firing later and actually saves me money on ammo.

 

[SonOfRoost]

Every style has it's place. I have admittedly sprayed .45 rounds down range ridiculously fast, but this was just so that I would know my limits with the gun. I find that alot of the "tacticool" accessories are actually very useful (particularly to inexperienced shooters), even if they're a little cheesy. I work very hard at the range to thoroughly master every gun that I own, this includes rapid fire, and "combat" shooting. If nothing else, it's a challenge. However, when I want to try a new style, or do something that I know yields poor results shooting, I don't hesitate to break out the .22s. However, I can long since control every gun that I have ever tried "combat" shooting with. When people go to the range and unload 200 rounds while only hitting 40 of them, I can tell that they're playing past their abilities, and it's usually with "tacticool" weapons. When they can't control their guns, I just laugh, because if their hypothetical apocalypse comes, all they will know how to do is shoot poorly when focused (which should say something about what would happen in a panic). They often have no other survival skills, and the completely improper mentality for such a scenario. It's important to remember that a truly skilled person doesn't have the term "good enough" in their vocabulary, they always need to improve, even if their preformance was flawless. That being said, they shouldn't say a word about how you shoot, and if they were skilled at the sport, they would never be as demeaning as to suggest you try their style, it's something you develop for yourself. They own the gun for it's novelty, skilled shooters own it for what they intend to use it for. They're free to own it for no reason, but it's a true shame I say. Kudos to those who are able shooters with a firm grasp on the merits of every style.

 

[Geckgo]

I'm still waiting for a shoulder mounted cannon and a targeting headset with a triple laser like the predator had.. I want one!!!!! I probably wouldn't be able to afford it even if they made one though

 

[Redneck with a 40]

I go out and shoot for fun and relaxation, not to prove anything or blast away my rounds with no accuracy. I take my time, methodical type shooting. Heck, with my .308 and a 100 yard target, it'll take me a minute to shoot 5 rounds, but I can put them into 5/8's of an inch.

I agree with the OP 110%.

 

[Dnaltrop]

At the range... it's 50' and silhouettes with the handguns... then tape/staple the color exploding ones for the .22 rifle.

Outdoors, my favorite targets are the spent 12 ga shotgun shells people leave behind. I stick them on the ends of grass stalks and twigs and peck away at them at about 20-30 feet.

It only counts if you call the supporting twig as the target BEFORE you shoot.

 

[Ignition Override]

oneounceload:

The problems described by some of you guys at public ranges must be the primary motivation for the tight restrictions at our private club range.

For example, if somebody asks others whether it is ok to go downrange to the target, you must put your rifle down with an empty chamber on the bench (and flag inserted: in theory), and you must stand behind the yellow safety line, waiting for the request/'call out' "Is the line hot?".

They charge about $400 to join and decide who will be admitted, but based on the nutty behavior which many people describe on gun boards, there must be an excellent reason for the stiff entrance fee and multiple safety rules.

 

[bigfatdave]

The problems described by some of you guys at public ranges must be the primary motivation for the tight restrictions at our private club range.

the stupid rules at rental ranges are why I am a member at a private club with range

5 rounds in the mag?
2 seconds between firing?
no working from a holster?
no non-paper targets?
no human-like targets?

Screw that, the hardest thing about the informal range is establishing a firing line, after that anyone smart enough to tie their shoes can understand "hot range" and "cold range" and a check for any weapons left behind at the line to be empty/locked open before walking down-range.

If you need a RSO to make you be safe, maybe a less dangerous hobby is in order, folks. Like pottery, or painting, or something not involving power tools or sharp objects.

 

[ol' scratch]

I am a younger guy who likes shooting .22. I have spent more time shooting my Mark III and my Match .22 rifle than my larger caliber rifles and pistols . I still enjoy the big stuff and I even have a black rifle. Mine is a national match which the mall ninjas come down to check out and tell me I need an A4 instead of an A2 because I can put more tac-ta-cool stuff on it. There are some who seem to think that you are ignorant if you don't use the latest tactical stuff. I like wood and 'character' on my rifles.

I too went through that tactical phase. I wanted an SKS and then went about trying to turn it into an AK. Everything needed to be black because it was harder to make out in a 'situation.' Everything needed to be scoped, hopefully with the latest long range scope. It didn't take me too long to grow out of it.

Some of these tactical people just need time to grow up. Others will go and make a little noise and eventually put their rifle in a closet to wait for the 'end times'. I don't see them as often as I used to. Some of them have even started showing up with old milsurps.

I should also add that there are guys who use what would be classified as a tactical firearm and are very safe and use the firearm in a safe manor. I shoot with a guy like that. In that instance it is different strokes for different folks. He shoots a Glock (which I hate) and I shoot a 1911 which he doesn't really like. We poke fun at each others' guns, but it is all in good fun. When he saw my NM AR, he asked why the barrel wasn't chrome lined. We had a civil and respectful debate and came to the conclusion that he would shoot what he wanted and I would do the same. My rifle is still more accurate, however.

 

[benEzra]

I can see how it's fun to rapid fire a 30 round mag, but at the same time I can see how it's miserable to be on the next bench over from Mr. rapid fire while trying to zero a scope.

No more miserable than being next to a bolt-action .300 Winchester Magnum, or next to any centerfire bolt-action with a muzzle brake. But that's one reason I usually wear both plugs and muffs.

 

[mrbro]

no human-like targets

IIRC that's the LAW in Mass.

 

[USAF_Vet]

I like to shoot for fun. I could spend a day at the range with nothing but my .22 rifle and a brick of ammo and a few dozen targets or random odds and ends. Or my black powder rifle, or my bow and arrow. Fun can be had with any type of firearm, regardless of looks, caliber, speed of operation or ammunition capacity.

One thing I've noticed since I got into shooting, generations seems to emulate what their military used. For the 50 and over crowd, the AR-15 platform was the young upstart that no one like having. The age of steel and iron gave way to space age polymer and aerospace aluminum. The idea persists in that generation that if it feels like a toy and looks like a toy, then it can't be a battle worthy weapon. "If the weapons that defined my role in war can be replaced, what does that say about the soldiers who used them?" I've heard this before. The things you are familiar with gets replaced by something you don't understand and can't relate to. It's hard to adapt to that.

Don't get me wrong, I have a fondness for the age of steel and wood. But the mil surp battle rifles from a century ago wouldn't be my first pick on the modern field of battle. A lot of that is mere indoctrination.

The concept of, "If it's good enough for our men in uniform, it's good enough for me" still applies. Only in the younger generations, it's the uber-tricked-out-tactical-terrorist-blasting-high-capacity-evil-black-rifles that are the norm. It's what is in the magazines, it's what is in pop culture vidiot games, and it's what's on TV.

The M1, M14, etc. steel and wood weapons are the weapons of my grandfathers era. They are the things advertized in the back of the magazines along with the John Wayne/ Ronald Reagan/ Clint Eastwood commemorative guns. In a word, they are relics.

Each generation respects the style of weapons popular to their time. I doubt that my kids will be even remotely interested in AR-15s when they reach my age. They'll have even less interest in 5 round bolt action dinosaurs like the Mosin Nagants, Mausers, Springfields, Krags and the like.

I shoot for fun, sure. But I also shoot to train. I'm not expecting the Chinese Zombie Paratrooper horde to descend from the skies anytime soon, nor am I expecting some junkie going through withdrawals to kick in my living room door looking for something to steal/ sell/ trade for his next fix. But, I'd rather be unecessarily prepared for an event that never happens than not be prepared for an event that does. Shooting golf balls, milk jugs and bowling pins is a lot of fun, no doubt, But I don't hear about rampant golf balls and bowling pins committing mass murder. Essentially, I shoot how I choose. As long as I do so in a safe manner, what difference does it make?

 

[happygeek]

no human-like targets

IIRC that's the LAW in Mass.

Do they have Appleseeds in Mass? If so what target do they use?

 

[benEzra]

More thoughts...

things are getting like a practice session for a Steven Segal or Mel Gibson movie. Super tactical all the way. Tactical guns, tactical lights on the guns, tactical clothing, and rapid fire as fast as the trigger can be pulled. It got bad enough at our range that the club passed a two second rule. At least 2 seconds has to pass between shots.

...

My question; does anyone shoot anymore just for the sheer fun of plinking, or target shooting?

...

Everyone these days seem so intent on defending themselves from the evil horde that's coming to get them, like some mass paranoid thing.

Striving for a blend of speed and accuracy is just as fun as striving for time-is-no-limit precision. Some of us consider shooting against the clock even MORE fun. Do what you enjoy, but don't assume that the rest of us aren't having fun just like you are.

And when I see someone shooting a Winchester Model 70 in .30-06, I don't assume they're fantasizing about being Carlos Hathcock. Likewise, don't assume that those of us of the diligentia, vis, celeritas school of thought are fantasizing about being some 1990s action hero.

BTW, you can shoot fast and accurately with 19th-century guns, too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbCjcEO9z1A

It seems to me that the whole gun world has gone bananas over the black guns and tactical shooting, and nobody shoots just for the fun of it anymore. Almost all the young guys seem to be imitating some Hollyweird action hero, and obsessing over double taps when the bad guys come through the door.

Turn the clock back to the 1920s and 1930s, and you might find something like this:

"It seems to me that the whole gun world has gone bananas over the bolt-action military guns and long-range shooting, and nobody shoots just for the fun of it anymore."

Or go back to the 1870s and 1880s:

"It seems to me that the whole gun world has gone bananas over the rapid-fire lever actions..."

Thing is, the guns you like to shoot probably aren't the same guns your great-grandfather liked to shoot, and the guns he shot aren't the ones that his great-grandfather liked to shoot. Heck, your great-granddad might have thought shooting golf balls instead of live animals was dumb, I don't know.

But don't knock those under 50 because we grew up shooting, and enjoying, different guns than you do. There is room enough in the shooting sports for all of us, including us fortysomethings-and-younger, and our black guns, and our shot timers and our IPSC targets.

But I wonder what happened to shooting as a hobby vs shooting as the obsession.

How is shooting IPSC targets against a clock more "obsessive" than taking 60 seconds to fire a single shot to try to beat a 0.425" group at some arbitrary distance? They're both fun for those who enjoy them, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with either.

Firearms magazines and advertising are heavily aimed at tacticool gear these says. The manufacturers are obviously profiting, since we continue to see so much of this stuff. Add to that the need of so many young 'uns to be "cool" and part of the "in" crowd it's easy to understand the current obsession. So many people, including our firearms brethren, are easily led.

I don't mean to be a curmudgeon here, but that is just patently offensive. You seem to be saying "I like what I like because I'm smart, but you like what you like because you're easily led."

I started shooting on traditional-looking rifles; my first gun was a 150th anniversary edition Remingtin Nylon 66, and my first centerfire was a Ruger mini-14 Ranch Rifle with a walnut stock.

I have since gravitated to an AR because it is more accurate, more ergonomic, more versatile, and more fun than the Ruger. Is that really so hard to accept? Yes, I like the fact that it can also serve as a very good defensive gun (just like the Ruger, or an 870, or a lever-action Winchester/Marlin), but I shoot it because I like shooting it.

The only gun I've ever bought because of "marketing" was a stainless steel Smith & Wesson 3913 Lady Smith, and marketing wasn't the primary reason; it just got my attention, and the merits of the platform took it from there.

Partly a byproduct of the Obamagunrush. Newbs bought tacticool stuff by the pile so they can hold off the black helicopters (as long as those black helicopters aren't farther than 7 yards away and they're big enough that spray-n'-pray might be effective).

I'm not sure I can compose a direct response to this insult that's high road, so I won't. I'll just say that you're totally and completely wrong.

FWIW, the AR-15 was the most popular centerfire sporting and target rifle in the United States long before most Americans had ever heard of Barack Obama. And the AR dominates Camp Perry style shooting because it is a better 600-yard paper-punching rifle than the M14 and M1 Garand, not because Camp Perry shooters want to look "tacticool."

Is the no rapid fire rule really not that common?

No, it's not. I've been shooting for about 25 years now (I'm 40) and I've never been to a range with a 2-second rule in my entire life. Such ranges exist, and they may like to pretend they're the norm, but such rules are (IMO) ridiculous and I would never patronize a range that had such a policy.

Nobody carried one for defensive purposes. There were no muggings, carjackings, home invasions, etc.

Things are very, very different today, you'd have to agree.

No, it's not. The violent crime rate today is about the same as it was in the 1950's, and is *lower* than it was 1900-1940. The media just talks about it more today.



And the "nobody cared about self-defense back then" angle is false nostalgia. My great-uncle ran a general store in the 1950's, and carried a concealed .38 for personal protection. My great-grandparents were married in 1900, and one of their wedding presents was a matched set of his-and-hers top-break concealed-carry revolvers, in .32 and .22. Interest in defensive shooting is hardly a recent innovation.

But what I'm seeing, and where I think the OP is coming from, is that folks only seem to be shooting with some form of SD/HD/zombie protection in mind. Even the various three gun and other matches are geared towards that aspect as well, IMO.

Whereas, not long ago, taking to the range with various guns in tow, even kids, meant shooting for fun, practicing some shooting for hunting, and just having some fun - not practicing for end of the world.

Sigh...USPSA matches are fun. Plinking with an AR is fun. Shooting against the clock is fun.

Perhaps you ought to grab a revolver and shoot a USPSA or IDPA match sometime; you may find you like it. Or, heck, attend a Cowboy Action Shooting match sometime.

Some of these tactical people just need time to grow up. Others will go and make a little noise and eventually put their rifle in a closet to wait for the 'end times'. I don't see them as often as I used to. Some of them have even started showing up with old milsurps.

I owned a Finn M39 for years before I bought an AR, and enjoy shooting both, thought the AR gets more range time. And, at 40, I have to say I do consider myself "grown up," thanks.

[sarcasm] it is getting to be a pain to go shooting - there's always this impatient young guy that hates everyone with blue steel and walnut, or is over the age of 40; anyone with revolvers, anyone who doesn't shoot like him with his spray and pray style, who looks downs on the older folks as just being Fudds because they don't believe how realistic COD truly is, and who hates the new no-rapid fire rule because someone shot over the berm and hit the houses downrange while acting out a video game fantasy scene.

The problem with your analogy is that we "under-fiftysomethings" aren't trying to ban you guys from the ranges we frequent; we're not instituting "rapid fire only" rules at ranges; we're not mandating "no wooden stocks" or "over-10-rounds required"; and we're not saying "everyone who shoots older style guns is a John Wayne/Elmer Keith wannabe".

There are exceptions (as the OP mentioned), but generally speaking most of us fortysomething-and-under whippersnappers have a "to each his own" attitude about the guns other people shoot. I hope to see the day when all shooters feel that way.

We're all in this together; artificial us vs. them divisions based on preferences and stereotypes, or exclusionary rules intended to keep "those other shooters" off "our" range, are bad for all of us.

 

[zenner22]

Interestingly, I just ran into this a couple weeks ago at the range. I was there one morning practicing for upcoming qualifications. Dressed normal, t-shirt, jeans, hat. Shooting a S&W M&P 9 at a silhouette at close range. From holster, 1 shot. Back up to 7 yds, 2 chest, one head. Then some one hand shooting, etc. Back up to 15 yds, more drills, usually starting from the holster. Safe, controlled stuff and I didn't look "tacticool" at all. I'm in my mid-40's.

I notice an old guy standing behind me by the benches. So I holster, walk over to him to find out if he wants the range since I was just about done. First thing he says, "What, are you preparing for a war or something?"

I was taken off guard by the comment. I explained to him what I was training for and once he got out some negative things about my agency (which I took in stride) he calmed down and starting telling me about his past (he used to work for Colt, which I thought was cool).

Anyway, it was clear he was intimidated because I was shooting more than one round every minute or so. This guy was a bench guy not a defensive shooting guy. I believe it is a generational thing and a lot of them just don't get it. I didn't try to explain it to him, just had a pleasant conversation with him.

I think the older guys like to have a nice calm day at the range, shooting once or twice every ten minutes in between conversations with a buddy. A lot of them don't understand or are intimidated by anything else.

But showing up in pseudo SWAT gear looking like one of the thugs the old man was talking about and emptying an AR mag as fast as you can pull the trigger isn't going to help bridge the generational gap.