Shooting My Cimarron Firearms Uberti 1873 Sporting Rifle With Black Powder

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Dave Markowitz

Dave Markowitz

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Today I put 60 rounds of black powder .44-40s through my Cimarron Firearms Uberti 1873 Sporting Rifle.

DM_Uberti1873.png

Fifty were loaded with Swiss 3Fg while the remaining 10 were loaded with Goex 3Fg. Either the bullets I used do not carry enough lube for a 24" barrel, or cowboybullets.com's lube isn't good enough for BP. I got a bad ring of crud for a few inches back from the muzzle. Accuracy went to hell after about 15 rounds. For the first 15 rounds I could easily hold the black of an SR-1 target offhand at about 25 to 40 yards. After 15 rounds the bullets impacted all over the paper.

Shooting the rounds with Swiss powder and Goex side by side reinforced how much better the Swiss is. It fouled noticeably less, and judging by the recoil and boom, was a more powerful load. Frankly, Goex is crap in comparison with Swiss powder. Goex Olde Eynsford is supposed to be comparable to Swiss but at a lower price. The next time I'm up at Dixon's I'll pick up a pound to try out.

I have an antique Winchester mold and tong-type loading tool on the way, that I bought on eBay. They were made in the late 19th/early 20th Century. We'll see how bullets cast in that mold do using my homebrew lube based on the Gatofeo Number 1 lube.

Winchester_Tools.jpg

If the bullets from the Winchester mold don't shoot well, I'm going to get a more modern design that holds more lubricant.

Either way, it's fun experimenting.

Edit: I forgot to mention that I removed the rifle's sideplate and found very little fouling inside in the action. The little that was there was on the bolt, and no doubt to my cleaning the rifle in the field, and running down. The thin .44-40 brass sealed the chamber very well.
 
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I use big lube bullets I cast myself in my 44-40 1866. I use 50/50 beeswax
and 100% pure neatsfoot oil in a 19" barrel. I normally use 2f powder but
am only hitting steel targets. Some SASS shooters swap their barrel after
10 shots if they have fouling build up at the muzzle. If you are loading for
hunting then 3f will give you more velocity but you are not going to be shooting
a bunch of rounds without cleaning barrel. I used to shoot a 40-65 and cleaned
after every 5 rounds. About 70% of blackpowder converts to gas the other 30% stays in the barrel as fouling.
I can shoot 60 rounds without cleaning in my 1866 but I have short barrel
and bullet that carries a lot of lube. That is my experience.
Charlie
 
What bullets did you shoot? Yes not all bullet lubes are created equal. When in doubt mix half beeswax and half vaseline add a tad of paraffin if it's not firm enough. Ordering a pound of Big Sky Components BSC , or Bullshops Nasa, or SPG will save you a lot of headache for bullet lube.
If you were going to compare regular Goex to Swiss then you should of been running Goex 4f to compare against Swiss 3. Goex 3f is the same sieve size as Swiss 2.
You will most likely like the Olde Eynsford better than Swiss.
Also you may want to chamber cast that rifle, they don't always put a 44wcf chamber that matches the barrel dimensions in those rifles. That original winchester bullet may be a bit to small for your rifle. Cast it from 16-1alloy.
 
The 200 gr MAV Dutchman big lube bullet is made for our CAS game. It holds a bunch of lube and will solve your problem.
 
I use big lube bullets for CAS and also bullets from the Accurate 215C custom mold I had made. The 215C has the traditional bullet nose profile with one large lube groove. You can shoot either of those bullet designs all day with no cleaning or loss of accuracy.

The Goex is much dirtier than the other black powders. The Old Eynsford is much better, more comparable to Swiss. I shoot a lot of KIK and Schutzen powders as well. I actually think KIK is one of the most under rated black powders, it may foul a little more than Swiss or Old Eynsford but it is a really soft fouling and cleans well.
 
Good info, guys, thanks.

What alloy are you casting your bullets with? I'm looking at getting into casting for this rifle and was thinking a 20:1 lead:tin mix.
 
Dave 20-1 is good I have even used pure lead for SASS. But you have the
right idea keep them soft and sized for the barrel. I size my big lube bullets
.430 but I have to check them with a cartridge gage to check for chambering.
I wished the nose dia was smaller so it did not have to be sized where it meets
the body of the bullet. I am going to try .428 dia next time. I have an older
mold so maybe the new ones are different. Charlie
 
Howdy

As you no doubt realized, you are getting fouling near the muzzle because your bullets are not carrying enough lube to keep the fouling soft for the entire length of the barrel.

There are many solutions to this problem. You can add a 'lube cookie' between the bullet and the powder to provide more lube. I used to do this all the time before I started casting my own bullets. I used to pan lube regular hard cast bullets with a mixture of 50/50 Beeswax/Crisco. Regular hard cast bullets do not have lube grooves big enough to carry enough lube, so I added the 'lube cookie'. The problem with this was the soft lube cookie was getting glued to the base of the bullet, causing it to spin like a lopsided dart, destroying accuracy. My solution to that was to add a card wad on both sides of the lube cookie, to keep the lube from contaminating the powder and to keep it from sticking to the bullet. This worked quite well, but it was way too much work.

I also tried several brands of bullets whose makers claimed they were good for Black Powder. Some bullets even had two lube grooves. My experiments showed that the lube grooves on these bullets were too small to carry enough lube to keep a rifle barrel lubed the entire length. They were OK in a revolver, but a 24" rifle barrel would not stay lubed the entire length, and the last six inches of the barrel would build up a layer of fouling that ruined accuracy. These bullets were OK with the 'high priced spreads' like Swiss, but as you have discovered Goex leaves more fouling behind and these bullets did not work out well in a rifle with Goex.

Yup, I have been the route of swabbing the barrel too. After two or three stages in CAS I would swab out the barrel with my favorite water based BP solvent and accuracy would return, however I had to repeat the swabbing after several more stages.

All that completely went away when I started casting my own Big Lube bullets. These bullets have a huge lube groove, big enough to carry plenty of lube for the entire length of the barrel.

Hint: Look for a Lube Star on your muzzle. This is a deposit of lube left behind when the bullet exits the muzzle. If you have a soft lube star on your muzzle, your bullets are carrying plenty of lube.

I used to cast my Big Lube Mav-Dutchman bullets from pure lead. Some will tell you that you cannot cast with pure lead, but it worked out fine for me. How much a bullet shrinks when it is cooling is in part dependent on the bullet alloy. Pure lead shrinks the most. Adding a little bit of tin reduces the amount of shrinkage. My Big Lube mold was throwing bullets at about .430-.432. I then sized them to .427, which was the groove diameter of my Uberti 44-40 1873 rifle. If I added any tin to the mix, the bullets did not shrink as much and were difficult to size down to .427.

Casting 45 Caliber PRS 250 grain bullets however, I added tin at about 4 to 6 ounces per 10 pounds of lead. The mold then dropped bullets at .454-.455 and I sized them to .452.

I used to lube my bullets with SPG.

My supply of cheap, pure lead dried up a few years ago, so I don't cast bullets any more. I buy them lubed and sized from Springfield Slim.

Regarding bullet diameter, the rule of thumb is .001 over rifling groove diameter. Most 44-40 Uberti rifles seem to be going with .429 rifling grooves these days. I have a bunch of 44-40 rifles now, and their rifling groove diameters vary from .427 to .429. I have compromised on .428 for all my 44-40 Black Powder loads. Be aware that if you go too big with your bullet, you may have problems seating bullets without crumpling case necks, and/or you may have trouble chambering your rounds.

You can use that antique loading tool to load ammo if you want, but I load mine on a modern Hornady progressive press. I usually crank out about 200 rounds in a sitting before I get bored.

Not a '73, but here I am blasting away with Big Lube bullets and Black Powder from my 1860 Henry.

BlackPowderCountryPond_zps09fc3a6f.jpg
 
Thanks again, gents.

I received the antique Winchester reloader and mold, and I'm in the process of cleaning off the surface rust and crud, but I think they'll be usable. I plan on using my Lee Classic turret press for the bulk of my loading, however.
 
I couldn't leave well enough alone. At the gun show yesterday I spied this Ideal #4 reloading tool for .44-40 and snagged it for $80.

Ideal_Number_4_44WCF_Tool_2.jpg

It still has a fair amount of the original nickel plating and the mold looks like it should be able to cast a good bullet.
 
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I found I had to size to 428 to get my bullets to chamber properly. I have used dead soft lead and I have used wheel weights. I see no performance difference between the two. Most 2 groove bullets will carry .3 gr of lube while the MAV Dutchman Big Lube carries 3 grains.
 
My 2 Uberti revolvers in .44WCF will chamber .429s, with smokeless but loading black powder I have to be careful not to bulge the case at all. My Winchester 1880 built will handle rounds slightly larger than the new Ubertis.
Got a set of "cowboy" dies, the expander die is a thou. larger than my old Lee die and the neck taper is better with the RCBS die.
 
I have no trouble chambering .429 bullets in any of my recent production 44wcf guns and will chamber in most of the older ones with .427 bores. I use a Lee FCD so that may make the difference.
 
Yes the factory crimp die makes a difference, but black powder loads don't need crimp to not telescope just to squeeze the brass around the .429s.
 
Nice Ideal tool. I always thought they were a very practical design.
 
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