Shooting Rifles With Iron Sights

[DMW1116]

I have 2, maybe 3 rifles I want to dedicate to iron sights. My plan is to zero them so that maximum bullet path is 4 inches, for purposes of plinking, and maybe hunting and competition. The reason for that elevation is I want to be able to use a 6 o'clock hold on a clay pidgeon or standing soda can so the sights don't get in my own way.

Is this sound logic or would it be better to sight in to hit center?

 

[HowieG]

Depends on what your sights are actually like. Are we talking a peep in back? Blade front? Bead front? Some sort of target aperture? And, 4 inches might be a bit much if you are only shooting a 22 at 50 yards.

 

[sarduy]

A 6 o’clock sight picture help you see your target at distance better and in case you need to compensate you can always aim center and for further targets.

 

[HowieG]

If I am shooting a big bead or a blade, I prefer for the bullet to land right on top of the front sight at whatever range I have picked to set my zero.

 

[SwampWolf]

Depends on what your sights are actually like. Are we talking a peep in back? Blade front? Bead front? Some sort of target aperture?

All good questions that need to be answered before a proper assessment can be made. For what it's worth as far as I'm concerned, when it comes to irons a good aperture sight like those made by Williams, Lyman and Skinner is by far the best choice.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I have lots of lever guns with lots of versions of Buckhorn rear sights. Full Buckhorn, Semi Buckhorn and Flat Top Buckhorn.

Generally speaking I like to have my sights set up for a Six O'Clock hold for the reason you state, so the sights do not obscure the target.

Technique will vary a bit depending on the type of sight. This is a Full Buckhorn sight. The 'horns' of the sight almost come together to form a full circle. Notice there is an adjustable insert with a small notch in it. Generally speaking with a sight like this it is easier to use it as a ghost ring, and allow the front sight to 'float' in the center of the ring, rather than try to center it down in the notch. The disadvantage to this type of sight is that it obscures a lot of the target, so it might not be too good for hunting. I can only guess at that, I am not a hunter, but I would guess this sight would obscure a lot of any animal it was pointed at.






Hear are a few Semi-Buckhorn rear sights. Notice there is a fair amount of variation in the designs. This first one is a standard Marbles Semi-Buckhorn that usually comes standard on Uberti lever guns, such as this replica Winchester Model 1873. It too has an adjustable insert, and it comes stock with a white diamond on the insert, but we have to black out the white diamond for CAS.






Here is an antique Semi-Buckhorn on an antique WInchester Model 1873.






A Semi-Buckhorn on a relatively modern Marlin Model 1894.






Another Semi-Buckhorn on an antique Winchester Model 1873.






Notice the size of the notch in these sights varies from reasonably large to tiny. My old eyes cannot even see the tiny notch on that last Winchester. In Cowboy Action it does not matter, the steel targets are large and close and all I have to do is center my sight picture on the center of the target and I will hit it. For shooting soup cans at the 25 yard berm, which bounce much better than soft drink cans because they are made of steel, not aluminum, I will nestle the bead of the front sight down in the notch and hold at Six O'Clock.





This is a Flat Top Buckhorn on an antique Winchester Model 1894. Lots of visibility to the sides with very little sight blocking the target, and a nice deep notch to settle the front sight bead in. If I were a hunter I would guess this sight would be ideal because it would not obscure much of the target. For soup cans at the 25 yard berm I nestle the front sight bead in the notch and hold at Six O'Clock.






Still another option. A folding rear sight that I had installed on an antique Winchester Model 1892.






I had this Lyman folding peep sight installed on the tang of the same '92. For close up shooting I fold down the tang sight and use the folding rear sight mounted on the barrel. I keep the peep sighted in for 100 yards and fold down the barrel mounted sight and use the peep out around 100 yards. This particular peep is only adjustable for elevation. Marbles makes one that is adjustable for elevation and windage.

 

[tomrkba]

Zero your gun at each range interval you plan to shoot so you know what the hold overs are. Know what the rifle does at each distance, how it behaves differently on the first and subsequent shots, etc. For example, my bolt gun would shoot 3/4" left and 1" high for the first shot when the gun was cold. At 400 yards, this is 3" left and 4" high. If I were hunting and I assumed the gun would not do this, I would miss a small target like a prairie dog. So, at 100 yards, carefully fire your first shot, record where it hits, and then do a five round group. Record it all. Do more five round groups at 100 yard increments out as far as you want to go. Then see if you can repeat it after cleaning and cooling to make sure it wasn't a mistake.

 

[DMW1116]

The 2 currently set for iron sights are aperature sights. One is a 22 with Tech Sights. It is currently zeroed 4 inches high at 50 yards and hits clays a bit past 100 yards with just a little hold over or holding at the top of the clay. The other is a rifle length 20" AR15. I haven't shot it yet, but it will be a dedicated irons only rifle. The last is a Marlin 336. It has a bead front and semi-buckhorn rear factory sight. I haven't decided if that's what I'll keep yet. I shoot a variety of loads from it, so something easier to adjust is likely, or I could just settle for one or 2 loads. What fun would that be though. It's currently set to hit 3 inches high at 100 yards with factory 170 gr Winchester loads. The sight isn't adjustable enough to make it 4".

 

[Picher]

I've shot with about every kind of iron sights and currently have a Winchester 69A currently set-up for 50' gallery shooting, but since my grandson isn't shooting these days, I'll replace the globe front before springtime shooting. For plinking and barnyard varmint/small game shooting with iron sights, I usually like a 50 foot zero, but will adjust at the range for farther distances and leave the set screw for the shorter distance (as shown). (12-3-2020 Replaced the Globe front with previous open front.)
ATTACH]959963[/ATTACH]

 

[DMW1116]

No doubt I'd zero the 22 differently if it were a squirrel gun. That's probably a 25 yard zero. Since I'm not hunting with them right now, I tend to shoot further than normally practical.

 

[GBExpat]

All of my life I have preferred shooting over irons.

O'course, none of my shooting was what you would consider long range. Almost all of it was 200yds or less.

Only in the last decade have I glassed a couple of my rifles due to vision issues (slowly worsening, aging-related presbyopia <sigh>).

I always sighted my rifles at 100yds configured for the POI to coincide with the top of my front sight.

FWIW ...

Enjoy!

 

[Ugly Sauce]

It's good to know there are still fans of the open sights out there. I've never been big on scopes, although I've used them in the past. Now I only have one scoped rifle, a Arisaka carbine, which has been hanging on the wall for 20 years since it's last use. I sometimes, on a whim, I put a scope on my .350 Remington Magnum, but then say: "naw" and take it off. At the moment it's off. Come to think of it, I do have a SMLE No.4(T) that is scoped. I figure every man needs one sniper rifle.

Since I'm pretty much "hunt oriented", I sight my rifles an inch or two high at 100, for "minute of deer/elk/bear accuracy". Of course that won't work well for small targets.

Have you ever heard of the Appleseed Shoots? If you can attend one, it will drastically improve your skill with open sights, all the way out to 200 yards and beyond.

Just about any type of open sight works for me, including full buckhorn. Of course peeps are the most accurate, and that's what I prefer.

I have old eyes too, but I've found that that using contacts with the right lens a "reading" or close range lens, and then the left eye a normal lens, I can still see open sights well.

 

[HowieG]

Howdy

I have lots of lever guns with lots of versions of Buckhorn rear sights. Full Buckhorn, Semi Buckhorn and Flat Top Buckhorn.

Generally speaking I like to have my sights set up for a Six O'Clock hold for the reason you state, so the sights do not obscure the target.

Technique will vary a bit depending on the type of sight. This is a Full Buckhorn sight. The 'horns' of the sight almost come together to form a full circle. Notice there is an adjustable insert with a small notch in it. Generally speaking with a sight like this it is easier to use it as a ghost ring, and allow the front sight to 'float' in the center of the ring, rather than try to center it down in the notch. The disadvantage to this type of sight is that it obscures a lot of the target, so it might not be too good for hunting. I can only guess at that, I am not a hunter, but I would guess this sight would obscure a lot of any animal it was pointed at.

View attachment 959893




Hear are a few Semi-Buckhorn rear sights. Notice there is a fair amount of variation in the designs. This first one is a standard Marbles Semi-Buckhorn that usually comes standard on Uberti lever guns, such as this replica Winchester Model 1873. It too has an adjustable insert, and it comes stock with a white diamond on the insert, but we have to black out the white diamond for CAS.

View attachment 959894




Here is an antique Semi-Buckhorn on an antique WInchester Model 1873.

View attachment 959895




A Semi-Buckhorn on a relatively modern Marlin Model 1894.

View attachment 959896




Another Semi-Buckhorn on an antique Winchester Model 1873.

View attachment 959897




Notice the size of the notch in these sights varies from reasonably large to tiny. My old eyes cannot even see the tiny notch on that last Winchester. In Cowboy Action it does not matter, the steel targets are large and close and all I have to do is center my sight picture on the center of the target and I will hit it. For shooting soup cans at the 25 yard berm, which bounce much better than soft drink cans because they are made of steel, not aluminum, I will nestle the bead of the front sight down in the notch and hold at Six O'Clock.





This is a Flat Top Buckhorn on an antique Winchester Model 1894. Lots of visibility to the sides with very little sight blocking the target, and a nice deep notch to settle the front sight bead in. If I were a hunter I would guess this sight would be ideal because it would not obscure much of the target. For soup cans at the 25 yard berm I nestle the front sight bead in the notch and hold at Six O'Clock.

View attachment 959898




Still another option. A folding rear sight that I had installed on an antique Winchester Model 1892.

View attachment 959899




I had this Lyman folding peep sight installed on the tang of the same '92. For close up shooting I fold down the tang sight and use the folding rear sight mounted on the barrel. I keep the peep sighted in for 100 yards and fold down the barrel mounted sight and use the peep out around 100 yards. This particular peep is only adjustable for elevation. Marbles makes one that is adjustable for elevation and windage.

View attachment 959900

Nice selection of levers. I am a lever fan and appreciate the pics.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Here's a peep sighted lever-gun. 80 grains of Black Powder, and the Speer 400 grain JSP.

 

[DMW1116]

That's probably what I'm headed towards. I think I can shoot with them better than the open factory sights on the Marlin.

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

You might find this discussion interesting:

 

[243winxb]

I always sighted my rifles at 100yds configured for the POI to coincide with the top of my front sight.

My method also. Same with hunting handguns, but at 50 yards.

The 6 O'clock hold is great when shooting at a black Bullseye target.

 

[Charlie98]

Peep sights? Someone said peep sights???



I learned to shoot peeps in the Army, and have been with them ever since; I have peeps mounted on every firearm that will take them. Back Home, Years Ago I could use open/buckhorn sights, but not these days... so peeps are it, even on my AR's. I'm not much of a scope guy, either... I only have one scope mounted, on my long-range Savage bolt gun, and I've had to learn how to shoot it.

Personally, I put that front sight post right on the target... that's how I was taught to shoot, and that's what I've always done, but I'm not a big precision target shooter, if you see the difference... otherwise I could see the 6 O'Clock hold with a properly ranged firearm.

 

[army_eod]

Yep. I have an M/70 Zastava Mauser with factory irons. I am keeping it that way. Keeps the weight down. Waiting for a new Schnable walnut stock to arrive from Numrich. I have a Bell and Carlson stock now. The walnut stock is lighter and purty. Rifle is 270 Win.

 

[stevebla]

I like hold under for peep sights on my 10/22 lets me shoot out further as a side benefit. As plinkers and trick shooters know never shoot over your target, and under sometimes produces more dramatic results.

 

[GBExpat]

That's probably what I'm headed towards. I think I can shoot with them better than the open factory sights on the Marlin.

<nodding> After buying my first .44 Marlin 1894S at the 1988(?) Medina, OH Gun Show my first improvement was adding a Williams 5D Rear Aperture Sight to the rear of the receiver ... followed by wrapping the lower section of the lever loop with paracord to save the back of my fingers.

And, yes, I still have it.

 

[MacAR]

FWIW, I sight my iron-sighted 22 rimfires in at 40 yards, using a 6 o'clock hold. My '06 with peep, and my 30-30 with peep were each sighted at 100 yards with the same hold. Makes the targets much easier to see. The '06 wears glass now, because my eyesight isn't as good as it was. But, with my peep sights I can still do pretty well squirrel hunting out to about 60 yards. Of my eight rimfires,
Mac

 

[Old Dog]

when it comes to irons a good aperture sight like those made by Williams, Lyman and Skinner is by far the best choice.

Yep. Only choice for those of us with aging eyes who like our iron-sighted rifles.

Shot my first deer with iron-sighted Win 94 ... I cannot use those semi-buckhorn sights anymore and have (the horror!) considered mounting a scope on my Marlin 336.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Peep sights? Someone said peep sights???

View attachment 960173

I learned to shoot peeps in the Army, and have been with them ever since; I have peeps mounted on every firearm that will take them. Back Home, Years Ago I could use open/buckhorn sights, but not these days... so peeps are it, even on my AR's. I'm not much of a scope guy, either... I only have one scope mounted, on my long-range Savage bolt gun, and I've had to learn how to shoot it.

Personally, I put that front sight post right on the target... that's how I was taught to shoot, and that's what I've always done, but I'm not a big precision target shooter, if you see the difference... otherwise I could see the 6 O'Clock hold with a properly ranged firearm.

Wow...that too is quite the bunch of lever guns. Come to think about it, I have peeps on my 94"Trapper" half-mag, my 92, and my Marlin. The other, another 94, has the semi-buckhorns on it.