Shooting scoped rifles

[PTK]

I'm going to sound really dumb about this, but all the scoped rifle threads recently have me thinking.

How in the world do you properly shoot a scoped rifle? I tend to be horribly inaccurate with a scope compared to the same gun, same distance, with iron sights.

I've tried cheap-ish scopes, I've tried Leupold scopes. The results are the same - I'm wildly inaccurate!

What books, websites, etc., would be a good starting place for me to learn how to properly shoot scoped rifles?

 

[Slugless]

Well, my experience this morning is that if I didn't get the eye relief the same each time the POI was quite different. Sometimes dramatically so.

Dumb would be not asking the question at all. There are no stupid questions, just ignorant ones.

Okay, sometimes there are stupid questions.

 

[tnieto2004]

I learned by starting out on a smaller caliber rifle (.22lr) and moving my way up .. It was much easier for me than trying to learn on the big boys .. And cheaper!

 

[taliv]

how inaccurate are we talking here?

 

[bhk]

Kinda hard to figure what is going on - you should be noticably more accurate with a scope. Eye relief shouldn't make any difference either, unless you are shooting at a very close range and you eye isn't centered correctly (and even that won't be a problem at normal distances). Most scopes have parallax adjusted at 100 to 150 yards. If you are shooting such a scope at a close target, you can see the crosshairs move on the target as you move you side from side to side. At normal shooting ranges, eye placement won't make a significant difference in bullet placement. Exceptions can be shooting at very small targets (or trying to shoot small groups) at ranges other than the parallax distance). This is why target scopes have adjustable objective (front) lenses. Even with this problem, your groups should still be better than with iron sights at all but the closest ranges (like measured in feet).

Be sure you mount your scope to the full 'eye-relief' distance, one that gives you the full field of view in the scope (no fuzzy edges) and fire away. Also be sure your scope mounts are correctly installed and the screws are tight.

 

[one eye joe]

where are you located? maybe somebody would be willing to spend a little time with you and get you lined out.

 

[Blackfork]

Scoped rifles

Cheekweld, body position, sight picture, trigger control.

With an unloaded, safe rifle, sit down at the bench on the range, (or somewhere you can see at least 200 yards. (I'm presuming that the scope is mounted correctly and the rifle zeroed.) Put the rifle on a rest without the rest touching the barrel.

Make sure the scope is focused at the target distance, if it has a focus.

Use different head positions until you find the proper eye relief (Distance from the scope to the eye). At the proper eye relief, you won't see a shadow or a circle around the image.

With your shooting/triggerfinger hand, grip the pistol grip and pull the rifle firmly into your shoulder.

Smear a cheekweld on the rifle, using ALL the skin and cheek available, from the BACK to the FRONT, arriving at the proper eye relief position. Rest the whole weight of your head on the cheekweld. On some rifles, (using iron sights), put your cheekbone on the back of your thumbjoint so that your head will ride the recoil instead of getting whacked by it. (M1A, Garand)

(Caution: many rifles have the scope mounted too high. With a high scope, you can't get enough cheekweld to position the head for proper eye relief. Add a cheekpiece.)

Use your non-shooting hand to support the rifle at toe of the buttstock. Don't waste it holding the rifle up front- the rest certainly has it under control. Make a fist around the rear sling swivel and use it to control elevation against the tabletop or hold the rifle butt near your armpit.

Focus your eye on the crosshairs, not the target.

Move the front rest and your body until the crosshairs are centered on the target. Establish a natural point of aim so that the rifle isn't being muscled to the target.

Breathe deeply in and out and watch the crosshairs move up and down.

At the bottom of the respiratory cycle (at the respiratory pause) smoothly press the trigger straight back. When the rifle goes off, hold the trigger all the way to the rear all the way through the recoil.

Call the shot. Think of where the crosshairs were when the rifle went off.

Shooting accurately is more about technique than equipment. So far this year, (besides lots of highpower rifle competion) I have shot two deer. One was an offhand 70+ yard shot at a standing deer with a 1903A3 and open sights. When she broke from cover I took a natural point of aim at the first open spot I thought she might stop and look. She did. I broke the shot with good technique. The second deer was shot off the edge of a blind tower window with a P17 Eddystone at 100+ yards. I had to be quick: just rotated the chair around, pulled the rifle in, cheekwelded, focused on the front sight and broke the trigger smoothly straight back. The rifle went off and came down on a deer toppling over in her tracks.

 

[PTK]

one eye joe - I'm just outside Denver, CO. I have yet to try anything past 100 yards with a scope, maybe that's my problem?

Blackfork - thanks for the advice. I'll give that a good shot, no pun intended. I've been trying to sight offhand with a scope like I do with irons.

 

[George Hill]

Get a .22 with a decent rimfire scope and start practicing with that. You can do a lot of practice on your fundamental skills.
I suggest a CZ 452 and a Nikon Prostaff Rimfire.
Work your way out... practice at 25, 50, then 100. Once you've mastered 100 with a .22, pretty much your set to deal with bigger calibers at longer ranges because your skill sets are the essentially the same for the basics. Then you will have to learn range estimation, wind drift, and of course, your trajectory and making all those work for you.

 

[bcp]

Are you talking about group size or about apparent sight movement on the target?

All else being equal, a 4x scope will make you see your wobbles 4 times better/bigger.

Bruce

 

[Caimlas]

I can't speak for anyone else, but my biggest turn-off from most scoped rifles is eye relief and eyepiece aperture size. If there isn't enough relief, and/or the tube is too small, it makes me flinch like someone just shoved the crotch of a dead skunk in my face - not on every shot, but frequently, and it takes a lot more concentration to make steady shots. If I'm confident that there's no chance of the rifle's recoil pushing the scope into my eye (I've got a big brow and deep-set eyes, so a 3" relief is more like 2", and not nearly enough for anything over a small rifle cartridge), I should be OK.

Another thing which might be screwing you up is the "wobble" at magnification. You perceive that you're steady (or as steady as you are while shooting irons)but the smallest flinch is magnified and much more noticeable.

 

[hksw]

I've been trying to sight offhand with a scope like I do with irons.

I think this may be a big contributor to the problem.

 

[MJ]

Like they all say build your position the saame every time and it will come to you. When you find you position keep it. Mine has not changed in 50 years and was tought to me by my mother. She was in the Navy and an istructor at a marine base in 1944 and before that she tested M1's at Springfield in '42 and '43.

It may not be text book but it's mine.



and it hasn't changed much.


Cheers
MJ

 

[ClarkEMyers]

Almost certainly jerking the trigger when the sights look good.

I've been trying to sight offhand with a scope like I do with irons.

Almost certainly jerking the trigger when the sights look good. One suggestion is to find your natural wobble area and so long as the wobble looks good increase pressure moving toward the bull and hold moving away until you get a surprise break. Anything but a surprise break will degrade performance immensely.

Incidentally, though it's by no means all I use I do use a Steyr Scout and Dragoon with long eye relief scopes for hunting - it's been many a day since the day I gave up sighting iron sights on a previous rifle because I couldn't see the irons the same way twice. The long eye relief scope is the best of both worlds for aging eyes.

 

[PTK]

I don't pull the trigger - I squeeze. I haven't had a problem with flinching since I first started shooting.

However, I'll try that as well as the rest of the suggestions, as soon as I find a suitable range out here.

 

[rcmodel]

If it's a high power variable, turn the power down to it's lowest setting for awhile.

Most people seem to think they need a 4x-12x or bigger scope to hit a target 100 yards away.
In truth, they are handicapping themselves with too much magnification, too little eye relief, and too little field of view.

Turn it down to 4x and you will shoot way better groups while learning to use it. The 12x setting is best used with bench-rests, sand-bags, and car hoods for rests!


rcmodel

 

[Blackfork]

Trigger Control

I know I have harped on this in here before but here it is one more time:

Trigger control. Everyone talks about it but no one DEFINES it. Propper trigger control is a SMMOTH controlled movement of the trigger ALL the way back.....then hold it until the shot recoil has settled out.

Focus on the crosshairs or front sight- move the trigger smoothly directly to the rear- hold it back.

I hold my bullseye pistol to the back between shots as a safety procedure....I have a grip on a trigger which has NOT been reset. I hold the trigger all the way to the rear in Highpower both in the single shot stages and the rapids. In the rapids I break the shot, hold the trigger back, then release it just enough to feel it reset and start the next shot.

When I shot both does with the 1903 and the P17 I broke the shot and held the trigger back long after the deer were down.

And: just because you know what I just wrote IN YOUR HEAD doesn't mean your HANDS know it. You have to train them. I'd use a Ruger semi-auto 22 pistol or rifle and fire it until I reflexively stayed on the trigger long after the shot is gone.

Glocks, 1911s, Garands, Ruger #1, Jap Type 44, Swede M38, Krag, M1 Carbine, every firearm should be shot holding the trigger all the way to the rear. Releasing it early is one more movement that will move the sights off the target PLUS you MUST be in touch with your trigger.

 

[qbpc]

Does your rifle fit?

The rifle must fit you. If you close your eyes and shoulder the rifle cheek on the stock(cheekweld) can you open your eyes and see through the scope with very little movement? If not the rifle does not fit. Things need to be adjusted so when it is shouldered things are easly repeated. Then after it fits thats when trigger control and other things come into play.
BB

 

[rangerruck]

without going into long detail, the 4 most important steps are, repeat everything the same during your shots. keep cheek in the same place on the stock, this will keep your eye distance the same , from the front of the scope(eye relief) breath in and out as normal, when you halfway breath out, pause your breathing. Begin to pull the trigger, whether you pull it fast or slow, pull it the same way every time; in one continuous same poundage straight back pull, NO JERKING THE TRIGGER!!! Start by pulling it back slowly, you can gain speed later.
Mechanically you need to have all your scope and mount parts, nice and tight , so make sure you check these. Also , if you have a bad scope, none of the above will help you.

 

[1911 guy]

Induced paralax

Not properly focusing the reticle when installing the scope will induce paralax, especially at higher magnification and longer range.