Shooting straight with windage adjustments

[Southmountain]

I shoot straight on a rifle when the front and rear sights do not appear to be aligned. When they are aligned (according to my eyes), it hits about 2 inches to the right at 50 yards. If I move the rear aperture sight (windage adjustment) left, then the shots start moving towards the bullseye.

So, when I'm hitting near bullseye in terms of windage, looking at the rear aperture, it visibly looks off the center of the barrel. The front sight, to the best of my knowledge, is pretty centered.

Is it possible for a barrel to just not shoot straight consistently? Or is this more likely to be a user error (i.e. me flinching)? The issue seems to be more exacerbated on a certain rifle than others but I don't have enough data to know that for sure.

 

[Hugger-4641]

Are you shooting from bags, rest, led sled, or off hand ?

 

[jmr40]

It's rare, but possible that the barrel isn't square with the receiver. I had a Ruger revolver like that once. When manufactured either the threads on the barrel, or receiver weren't cut square. The barrel was at a very slight angle pointed to one side. I didn't have enough adjustment in the rear sight to get it zeroed. That was simply a defective handgun that was returned to Ruger.

 

[Varminterror]

Don’t overthink this. Sights are adjustable to account for the fact barrels won’t throw bullets straight out from their centerline. As long as the sight isn’t running out of adjustment, or falling out the side of the dovetail, it doesn’t really matter. It may be a slight warp in the bore of the barrel, a slight stress in the steel, an imperfect angle between receiver and bore, or simply positive compensation/harmonic issue in the relationship between the load and the barrel.

But if you can zero then sights to align POI with POA, the adjustable sights have done what they are designed to do. There’s no benefit in making it more complicated than that.

 

[RainDodger]

Also, different loads will have different points of impact. A different brand of cartridge with a different weight bullet, etc. may hit inches away from some other brand or handload. Easy to demonstrate with different brands of .22 rimfire out of a rifle. Significantly different points of impact in that case.

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

Isolate your variables.

First, have two or three others shoot the rifle with the sights zeroed for you -- groups will shift a little with each shooter, but if there is a consistent pattern that differs significantly from yours, look into issues with your technique and eyesight.

If everyone else groups in roughly the same spot, it's the rifle and/or ammo. Can you scope the rifle, so you have something to compare against the irons?

 

[JDGray]

We had a rifle at work that the ops manager zeroed the scope on, no one else could hit with it. He took another job, and I zeroed the scope, everybody else can now hit with it! Lol

 

[Southmountain]

Thanks all - I hope to find out more later today after visiting the range with someone much more experienced. It's probably just a matter of mechanical zero not being actual zero + some user error by this novice shooter on a heavy caliber (30-06). Yes, these results were all from a bench.

 

[someguy2800]

Iron sights can generally be drifted right and left to zero the windage. On some rifles only the rear sight is driftable, some rifles only the front, and some allow for adjustment both front and rear.

 

[someguy2800]

2” at 50 yards can sometimes be the difference between one load and another. Find a load that shoots well and you expect to do most of your shooting with, and drift the sights to zero the rifle to that load.

 

[Southmountain]

Back from the range, this time a very experienced shooter went with me and shot. We had the same results. The rear aperture sight needs to be about 20 clicks left for the windage to be centered (2.5 inches right at 50 yards with what visually looks like mechanics zero). Tried two different factory loads, same results.

neither of us are sure what’s going on. Sights look misaligned but gun shoots straight. Perhaps the range isn’t flat and the bullets are affected by gravity? I’ve only tried shooting from one bench.

 

[Varminterror]

What sight do you have?

 

[Southmountain]

Lyman 48 WJS - see attached. It seems to shoot dead on at this setting.

 

[Varminterror]

Lyman 48 WJS - see attached. It seems to shoot dead on at this setting.

I wouldn’t say there’s anything wrong with the way that is sitting. Loosen the two top screws on your zero plate, center the zero on your current setting and then live long and prosper.

 

[GooseGestapo]

At 50yds, it could also be light conditions.
When I was shooting PPC, I kept a diary of loads, wind, and lighting conditions. Including the magnetic heading of the range. Even dates to accommodate differences in light angles.
A difference of 90deg in light angle could make a 3-click difference at 50yds. (2.25”) on a S&W 6” revolver.
A low sun over the target will result in shooting high, low behind the shooter, will make you shoot low. Left or right, you shoot towards the light. 1-2 clicks between 9am -11am.

It has to do with differential illumination of the sight surfaces. Being able to predict the sight correction often made a match winning difference. Matches often won by X-count.

I’ve got a 1975 built Mauser MkX in .30/06. Like the posters rifle, the rear sight is off to one side and the Front sight off to the other. Even after the barrel being removed, the barrel and receiver lathe turned to true up, it still shoots to original sight setting I set in 1975... something is up with the barrel, but it’s VERY accurate with the scope and has killed dozens of deer, so I don’t concern myself with it. Action has been bedded and barrel free floated....
who knows why?

 

[Tallinar]

This is the kind of thing that can drive you bonkers if you let it. Or you can choose now to just let it go.

As another person said, best not to overthink this.

Sadly, we live in an imperfect world where not everything is going to be centered perfectly and fitted perfectly. I think the sooner we can make peace with these realities, the more sanity we will preserve. Otherwise, you’ll spend your life constantly frustrated and chasing perfection in vain. It will cost you time, thought, and money. Best to just realign your expectations.

I have a Ruger Single Six that shoots very accurately, but the rear sight has to be kicked over as far to the left as it will go. Once there, it’s dead on.

My father had an Interarms 92 in .357. The barrel was ever so slightly curved to one side, and the tang sight had to be adjusted pretty far to the side to account for it. But it ended up being very accurate inside cowboy action distances.

I have a Henry Big Boy that I installed a Ranger Point Precision rear peep sight to (trying to sell it right now, it’s in the classifieds here). Had to be adjusted fairly far to the right, but is dead on.

If you pay attention to detail, most guns have their own little quirks of imperfection. No matter how much we crave perfection, these things just ain’t perfect. Fortunately, the truth is that a gun doesn’t need to have everything perfect in order to be a great gun. You just need to take each gun for what it is and figure it out.

Good luck.

 

[David Hoback]

Several are on the right track, but I’m surprised at how many members are telling you things to look for, insinuating there is a problem! Seriously, some of you guys need to stop giving advice!

Tallinar above, hit the nail on the head. This is quite normal! There is problem ONLY when & if the sights are drifted ALL the way and the POA & POI are still not centered. Every bullet, every load can cause the barrel to whip in a different direction when the bullet exits the muzzle. Based on the harmonics a pressure wave travels down the barrel at up to 20,000fps! And wherever the barrel is pointed is the start of that bullet’s path, or trajectory as we call it. From there, windage is controlled..well, by just that…. WIND! And also by spin drift caused the direction of the rifling. (More often Right Handed) But that is a constant to each rifle.

So, in short… I second to not stress over it. It’s completely normal and in fact a reason WHY the sights are adjustable in the first place.

 

[someguy2800]

Back from the range, this time a very experienced shooter went with me and shot. We had the same results. The rear aperture sight needs to be about 20 clicks left for the windage to be centered (2.5 inches right at 50 yards with what visually looks like mechanics zero). Tried two different factory loads, same results.

neither of us are sure what’s going on. Sights look misaligned but gun shoots straight. Perhaps the range isn’t flat and the bullets are affected by gravity? I’ve only tried shooting from one bench.

You are trying to prescribe a problem where none exists.

 

[JDGray]

Back from the range, this time a very experienced shooter went with me and shot. We had the same results. The rear aperture sight needs to be about 20 clicks left for the windage to be centered (2.5 inches right at 50 yards with what visually looks like mechanics zero). Tried two different factory loads, same results.

neither of us are sure what’s going on. Sights look misaligned but gun shoots straight. Perhaps the range isn’t flat and the bullets are affected by gravity? I’ve only tried shooting from one bench.

No doubt that gravity is pulling them boolits!