Shooting the "1858 Remington New Army" - Range Report

[Old No7]

Ahoy the forum from the coast of Maine...

I picked up a decent used Pietta "1858 Remington New Army" over the weekend, and other than having to use the downward pressure of the drill press's quill -- and a liberal application of Kroil, along with two hot/cold cycles (300 degree oven for 25 minutes, followed by being put outside, then brought inside to warm up; then repeated) -- I finally got all 6 nipples out. Whew! All were stuck, but #2 - 6 were pretty rusty... But the above tricks worked, as well as recutting and rehardening the nipple wrench after nipple #4 came out (as you can see below):

It was a slow email day today, so my lunch hour was conveniently spent at the range...

I kept the cylinder pin lubed, but didn't use any Crisco over the balls (only used some dry-lubed felt wads under them); and as a result, I had to wipe and relube the pin again after just 2 cylinders full. My load was 0.454" swaged lead balls over a felt wad, on top of 25 gr of 777-P powder, touched off my Remington #10 caps.

Accuracy was great -- as this 15-yard offhand group shows:

And here's a view of all "the stuff" you need to load, clean and lube it, etc. and there's even more BP supplies in that large black box at the upper right (that is the Cabela's plastic ammo-can-like "Muzzleloading Storage Box" that has a lift-out tray as well as some small storage compartments hidden under the top); it works really well to have all the BP stuff in one box when heading out to the range:

It was cold enough that I wore my deerskin gloves while shooting, and now that I see them in this pix, they remind me of the yellow leather cavalry gloves that John Wayne would wear in his westerns. (OK, not a bad guy to emulate!!) You can also see the Remmie fit into the homemade loading stand really well; that was made way back in 1981 when I first got my Ruger Old Army. Using that sure beats trying to hold it with 1 hand and load it with 2 hands -- Oh wait... That totals 3 hands...

I enjoyed shooting it, and the piece is in great condition, considering that I only paid half of what Cabela's charges for a new one. So all in all, I think I did pretty well on this purchase.

So... My initial impressions of shooting the 1858 Remington New Army?

Here's "The Good":
+ I like how well it handles the spent caps! No caps ever fouled the action.
+ Hammer "safety" between the nipples seems very solid and secure.
+ I like the period-correct look versus my larger/heavier stainless Old Army.
+ Overall, this Pietta has very little to complain about for its fit and finish.
+ And so far, it is very accurate.

And here's "The Bad and The Ugly":
(-) For one thing, it doesn't seem to point as naturally as my Colt 1861 Navy.
(-) It doesn't seem to balance as well in the hand as the Colt Navy does either.
(-) The back of the trigger guard whacks my middle finger with every shot. (Ouch...)
(-) Having to pull, wipe and relube the pin every 12 shots could be bad in a firefight. (And is a pain...)

Oh well, I'll experiment with using some over-the-ball lube and also grooving the cylinder pin as was suggested on another forum. I'll also be sure to use anti-sieze on the nipples too (which I'd always done with all my other BP arms); for sure, the original owner didn't do that.

* Anyone else shooting the 1858 New Army?

* How do you like it versus the open top Colt's?

Tight groups!

Old No7

 

[Jimster]

Looks nice. Had one and loved. Good shooting.

 

[[email protected]]

Nice group and good shoot'en. I'd imagine the trigger is still pretty crisp.

 

[rodwha]

I use Ballistol on my cylinder pin which keeps it running smoothly.

 

[Crawdad1]

Great off hand shooting and it looks like your Remmy kept right up with you. Its impossible to beat the balance and pointability of a Colt especially the '51 but the Remington makes up for it in good overall accuracy using heaver charges.

This was my Remington I sold a few years back,

This is at 25 yards with the barrel resting on sand bags. Using 200 grain 45 LC'

 

[Old No7]

Well, I've found several more things to like about the 1858 Remington!

"The Good" (Part 2):
+ It sure does disassemble easily! (See the pix) So it cleaned up well -- all over too.
+ The inner workings are very stout and robust, as compared to a Colt (in my opinion).
+ It has the octagon barrel (as I never warmed up to the hinged lever on an 1851 Colt).

I have to admit... The more I handle this, the more I like it!

I did find a small burr on the forcing cone, and even though the accuracy seemed to be pretty good today, I carefully took care of that with a 357-45 Brownell's Kit that I bought used a few years ago. A few slight twists with the 11-degree forcing cone cutter and -- take a look!

Now I just need to modify the cylinder pin so it's less prone to bind, buy some Crisco as an over-ball lube to keep the fouling soft -- and then schedule more time at the range to make some smoke!

Old No7

 

[rodwha]

You'll likely prefer lubed wads as overball lube ends up everywhere but on the ball and makes your hands slippery.

 

[Blackpowdershooter44]

Ahoy the forum from the coast of Maine...

I picked up a decent used Pietta "1858 Remington New Army" over the weekend, and other than having to use the downward pressure of the drill press's quill -- and a liberal application of Kroil, along with two hot/cold cycles (300 degree oven for 25 minutes, followed by being put outside, then brought inside to warm up; then repeated) -- I finally got all 6 nipples out. Whew! All were stuck, but #2 - 6 were pretty rusty... But the above tricks worked, as well as recutting and rehardening the nipple wrench after nipple #4 came out (as you can see below):

It was a slow email day today, so my lunch hour was conveniently spent at the range...

I kept the cylinder pin lubed, but didn't use any Crisco over the balls (only used some dry-lubed felt wads under them); and as a result, I had to wipe and relube the pin again after just 2 cylinders full. My load was 0.454" swaged lead balls over a felt wad, on top of 25 gr of 777-P powder, touched off my Remington #10 caps.

Accuracy was great -- as this 15-yard offhand group shows:

And here's a view of all "the stuff" you need to load, clean and lube it, etc. and there's even more BP supplies in that large black box at the upper right (that is the Cabela's plastic ammo-can-like "Muzzleloading Storage Box" that has a lift-out tray as well as some small storage compartments hidden under the top); it works really well to have all the BP stuff in one box when heading out to the range:

It was cold enough that I wore my deerskin gloves while shooting, and now that I see them in this pix, they remind me of the yellow leather cavalry gloves that John Wayne would wear in his westerns. (OK, not a bad guy to emulate!!) You can also see the Remmie fit into the homemade loading stand really well; that was made way back in 1981 when I first got my Ruger Old Army. Using that sure beats trying to hold it with 1 hand and load it with 2 hands -- Oh wait... That totals 3 hands...

I enjoyed shooting it, and the piece is in great condition, considering that I only paid half of what Cabela's charges for a new one. So all in all, I think I did pretty well on this purchase.

So... My initial impressions of shooting the 1858 Remington New Army?

Here's "The Good":
+ I like how well it handles the spent caps! No caps ever fouled the action.
+ Hammer "safety" between the nipples seems very solid and secure.
+ I like the period-correct look versus my larger/heavier stainless Old Army.
+ Overall, this Pietta has very little to complain about for its fit and finish.
+ And so far, it is very accurate.

And here's "The Bad and The Ugly":
(-) For one thing, it doesn't seem to point as naturally as my Colt 1861 Navy.
(-) It doesn't seem to balance as well in the hand as the Colt Navy does either.
(-) The back of the trigger guard whacks my middle finger with every shot. (Ouch...)
(-) Having to pull, wipe and relube the pin every 12 shots could be bad in a firefight. (And is a pain...)

Oh well, I'll experiment with using some over-the-ball lube and also grooving the cylinder pin as was suggested on another forum. I'll also be sure to use anti-sieze on the nipples too (which I'd always done with all my other BP arms); for sure, the original owner didn't do that.

* Anyone else shooting the 1858 New Army?

* How do you like it versus the open top Colt's?

Tight groups!

Old No7

That's a great grouping there. The '58 Remington is a good revolver, I've got one and I really enjoy it.

 

[drobs]

Nice shooting.

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

I have 3 of them, 2 Pietta .44 and a Euroarms .36 built on the period correct smaller frame unlike the the Pietta and Uberti .36's that are built today on the larger .44 frame. The smaller .36 feels more like a Colt '51 Navy or SAA in the hand than the larger framed Remingtons. If you handle them the difference is readily apparent.

 

[whughett]

And here's "The Bad and The Ugly":
(-) For one thing, it doesn't seem to point as naturally as my Colt 1861 Navy.
(-) It doesn't seem to balance as well in the hand as the Colt Navy does either.
(-) The back of the trigger guard whacks my middle finger with every shot. (Ouch...)
(-) Having to pull, wipe and relube the pin every 12 shots could be bad in a firefight. (And is a pain...)

Love this thread, and that is some impressive shooting. IMO a group like that at 15 yards translates to a still high degree of accuracy at longer yards. But just had to comment on the 4th observation of the "The Bad and The Ugly". In my younger day I was an avid gun magazine reader and one writer, perhaps Ayoob, once said, "In a gun fight if one needs more than 6 shots to get the job done, then one either needs to go back to the range or is in way over their head."
My own 58 is a Euro Arms picked up at a gun show a couple of years ago. Just as accurate as the ROA, but due to the lack of repeatability of amount of shots on target takes a back seat to same. This ones problem is I can't pull the base pin by hand if I do more than two cylinders, have to tap it out with my Lyman hammer.

A plus is removing one screw drops the trigger guard and gives one full access to the internals for a quick hot water rinse with out taking down the entire gun.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Old No.7,
It'll be interesting to see if the Remie is still as accurate as before after the 11 deg. cut. I'm assuming you were shooting balls. It now may be a better conical shooter. Ball shooters should have almost immediate rifling as opposed to a true forcing cone (due to the short bearing surface a ball presents). Of course, it is hard to tell the length/depth of the cut just from a picture.
As far as the action parts being robust, they are basically the same as the Colts parts. Pietta still uses parts that resemble what was available in the 1970's. Think of oak trees vs saplings when it comes to heavy springs and parts that flex. "Robust" ones tend to fatigue and break.

Personally, I like the larger overall size of the Pietta Remies over the Uberti's. They fit my hands better and they can all be made to function perfectly!
Congratulations!

Mike

 

[red rick]

Nice report and great shooting , I love seeing those range pictures . I don't think that I would have messed with the forcing cone with those groups . You will have to give us a new report when you get back to the range .

 

[perldog007]

I got four cylinders of 40gr ffg pyrodex and .454 rb no lube when i took mine out. It was boringly reliable and accurate. Every thing I didn't like about the service revolvers I carried was mitigated. Power, single action, quick to reload. I do enjoy my Colt copies, and my 1860 is my 'every day' but I love my remmy. If I could only have one the .44 NMA would be the one.
I did have many many hours of hand rubbing mine with traditions wonderlube inside and out before we fired it. Clean up wasn't too bad.

 

[Oohrah!]

I'm using the Taylor 45LC conversion cylinder with mine, and loading my own brass with 35gr FFFG, 230gr LRNFP. Getting just under 800fps on the Chrono. And I still need to spray the thing down with a diluted solvent after 12 rounds or so, or I can't even slide the rod out.

 

[Crawdad1]

Oohrah, What kind of accuracy are you getting with those loads?

I figure you're getting in good solid 45 ACP territory in energy.

 

[mjsdwash]

unlike the recommendations, I lube mine with 5w20 conventional oil. Fouling is not an issue. Barrel does not clog with sludge. I get 36 shots before needing to wipe the pin. I use 2f, 3f goex, clearshot (from 2000), pyrodex. I use .454 balls, with .449 throats, and don't use wax. Not sure how they shoot compared to open tops, because I cant hit anything with opentops. As you pointed out, the grip doesent fit you, and while that seems more common, just the same some of us do not fit the colt style. I can shoot the NMA as well as most centerfire pistols, but never got the feel for colts. The NMA definitely runs better. No cap jams, easy cleaning, less fouling safe with six, even a simple loaded chamber indicator. Great guns. Ive been known to half ass the cleaning when using BP, and in a very humid environment I have not had rust, though some discoloration of the trigger guard. Pyrodex ate a friends navy in 4 days to the point it looked like an old anchor. Lots of people spary wd40 in the trigger guard to avoid takin it apart, and it does work, but I would not recomend it with anything but real BP.

 

[Oohrah!]

Crawdad1, it's very solid. But I only shoot at 20 yds or so (CAS), and without modifying the sights, it stays inside a 6 inch circle.