Shot in the face for his gun

[Jeff White]

This happened at a bus stop in St Louis a few weeks back. A uniformed security officer was standing at a bus and was attacked and shot in the face:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_dab8aac4-c1aa-5285-8d36-7a48b219fb72.html

Taken from him was a blue steel .38 caliber Taurus revolver which was his service weapon.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/securi...cle_c4c79efc-c084-5c08-923a-3f1b3259114c.html

He later died.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_9571097e-8914-5165-8c0d-886a2e1918fd.html

Now ST&T is not the place to have a debate on open carry. If the thread goes in that direction I will be more then happy to close it.

I posted this because an attack on a uniformed security officer who is not on the job is relatively rare and it appears he was killed so the shooter or shooters could steal his gun.

There aren't many real details, which is typical for news articles these days. If you go armed, be aware that there are people who will shoot you to get your weapon.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

What a terrible thing! I hope they catch the dirtbag. One has to be hyper vigilante when OC'ing, and it's very difficult to be on guard at all times. I wonder if he had a CCW permit? It seems very strange that someone would risk a murder conviction to get their hands on a Taurus revolver (or any gun I mean).

 

[joem1945]

I see this as a failing of the court system and liberal heart boogers that let criminals off with a slap on the wrist too many times. Change the laws to demand death for any crime using a firearm to be carried out within 30 days. The criminals will then use other things to do their crimes.

 

[X-Rap]

Speculation only but there is a strong statistical chance that the guy who did this has a prior record of violence.
There is certainly room for debate on OC but if we are to take that threat seriously we must also consider the potential for attack outside of ranges, gunstores, pawnshops of any other places in which one might be carrying a firearm in public.
We have a system that is broken and it allows criminals to walk among society and cause mayhem almost at will.

 

[Speedo66]

I see this as a failing of the court system and liberal heart boogers that let criminals off with a slap on the wrist too many times. Change the laws to demand death for any crime using a firearm to be carried out within 30 days. The criminals will then use other things to do their crimes.

Does that mean you'd like to include criminally negligent homicides, i.e., perhaps a death caused with a gun by accident? Or an error concerning gun licensing that rises to a crime? Be careful what you ask for.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

^^^^

Or a homeowner defending himself and family who screwed up on the legalities while saving his family?

 

[Sol]

Unfortunate isolated incident really.

I fear there was probably nothing this guy could have done to prevent this besides not being there.

 

[herrwalther]

I see this as a failing of the court system and liberal heart boogers that let criminals off with a slap on the wrist too many times. Change the laws to demand death for any crime using a firearm to be carried out within 30 days. The criminals will then use other things to do their crimes.

You are completely forgetting the forensic and court backlog being experienced nationwide. 30 days? You must be joking. It would take almost 30 days just to match the shell casings to the firearm used and even longer if the firearm is not on hand. Mandatory minimums have little empirical evidence on dissuading crime, at least in drug and gun violence cases. Court backlog is a nightmare in itself. The process of selecting a jury with an already full case load for an attorney and prosecutor takes weeks if not months. Unless you feel like throwing out the Constitution's 4th, 6th, 7th and 14th (for states) Amendments. No a court speediness will do little, if any to prevent gun violence.

OC tactics aside at the request of the OP, vigilance is key. Gear will only help you to a point. Retention holsters will only buy you a fraction of time during a struggle. It won't help you out if you are already dead. Not too many years ago the best example of a retention holster was the Blackhawk SERPA. Now everyone recognizes that the giant "push me to release firearm" button. Now there are better holsters that retain a bit more discreetly, like the 5.11 Thumbdrive holster, which uses a thumb release that is positioned near the body that is less conspicuous.

 

[old lady new shooter]

X-Rap wrote "we must also consider the potential for attack outside of ranges, gunstores, pawnshops of any other places in which one might be carrying a firearm in public"

Are you saying that attacks are common in the places you list?

 

[Jeff White]

Attacks can happen anywhere. The two bank robbers from the now infamous FBI Miami shootout killed someone who was target shooting for his guns.

One needs to be aware no matter where they are. And if you decide to open carry you should be aware that there are people out there who look at your gun as something to steal.

 

[MedWheeler]

One can only speculate that the acquisition of the officer's weapon was the primary motive. As all of the short articles state, the investigation is still continuing.

In a large number of cases of uniformed personnel being shot, their weapons are then taken.his could well have been some gangbanger with simply the idea of "I'm gonna kill this rent-a-cop", with that being the first thought, and the taking of the gun as simply what comes next.

The articles do not state if anything else was taken from the victim, such as a watch, jewelry, or wallet/badge.

 

[Plan2Live]

I wonder if sticking to a routine played into this. Same place, same time, with that gun, every day.

My day job is a banker. Many days I am the first to arrive. Even though I don't have the combination to the vault someone watching the bank would probably think the first middle aged guy showing up and turning off the alarm has the combination. So I am always vigilant about varying my routine, driving up at different times from different directions. I always circle the building, sometimes twice. I would prefer to enter using the two man method where one stays outside until the all clear is posted but I get in early and don't want to waste the morning waiting for someone else to show up.

 

[old lady new shooter]

Attacks can happen anywhere. The two bank robbers from the now infamous FBI Miami shootout killed someone who was target shooting for his guns.

One needs to be aware no matter where they are. And if you decide to open carry you should be aware that there are people out there who look at your gun as something to steal.

Out here we don't even have concealed carry. I was already wondering whether for example range parking lots are monitored to protect patrons. They have a lot of other rules like not renting to people who come alone unless they also bring their own gun. It's pretty upsetting to imagine somebody running or cycling past in the parking lot and grabbing one's gun case.

 

[Mike J]

Anything can happen anywhere. I cannot remember his screen name to save my life but there was a member here a few years ago that was killed for his guns while shooting on public land. He was a pastor IIRC. There are animals that walk among us.

 

[Mainsail]

Now ST&T is not the place to have a debate on open carry. If the thread goes in that direction I will be more then happy to close it.

Jeff, this entire forum isn't a place to discuss or debate open carry- supportive posts will get deleted, threads will be steered toward the anti-OC direction and promptly shut down when that fails, and people who support it will get banned (NavyLCDR).

And if you decide to open carry you should be aware that there are people out there who look at your gun as something to steal.

So you're either saying that concealed carry relieves you of needing to worry about people who look at you as a source of stealable items, or you're saying that you actually do want to debate open carry as long as nobody writes anything positive about it.

100% of the people that were targeted and then victimized for robbery looked exactly like a person carrying a concealed handgun.

 

[X-Rap]

Are you saying that attacks are common in the places you list?

No Ma'am, what I'm saying is that we can't just pick OC as being a potential for criminals to target and ignore other opportunities, we must be honest and accept that they are bright enough to go where there are guns if they want to steal them.

 

[Jeff White]

No I have no intention of debating open carry. I started this thread to discuss ways to avoid being victimized. Open carry, CCW, it doesn't matter, if you carry, your weapon is a target.

 

[X-Rap]

I agree Jeff, I was only trying to answer the question from the lady.
As you pointed out in a previous thread, the vicious killers from the Miami Shootout acquired some of their guns after killing recreational shooters.
In many parts of the country people shoot pretty much where they please and those spots could be easy marks for criminals looking to acquire weapons.
Another situation, while not something everyone needs to be aware of, is those who set up at gunshows.
Often times people will travel 100's of miles with 100's of guns for a weekend show. Those who do should take special care and have some sort of action plan in case of attempted high jacking on their way home.
Many ways gun owners can be victimized by criminals.

 

[Jeff White]

X-Rap, I should have been clearer, I was replying to mainsail who seems to want to turn this into an open carry debate.

 

[Hoppes Love Potion]

I always feel vulnerable outside the range. There's a big sign on the front door: NO LOADED GUNS ALLOWED. So everyone is carrying in these range bags full of unloaded goodies. My head is always on a swivel walking from the car.

 

[Bo]

I always carry one loaded gun on me when going to and leaving a public range. Always try to keep my right hand empty.
I don't care what the sign on the door says.
Besides, the range I go to says, "all loaded guns must be holstered".

 

[g.willikers]

If memory serves, weren't there a rash of Washington D.C. officers shot for their guns back in the eighties?
We were in Chicago and some of the officers there were very casual about their guns.
Two of them happened to walk by us and one was carrying his still issued revolver in an old beat up holster.
The grip was sticking out so far away from his waist it was a wonder someone didn't just make a grab and run.
And from the look of them, they couldn't have run a block without fainting.
Kind of sad, really, and not worthy of much confidence from the mostly unarmed citizens there.

 

[old lady new shooter]

I wonder if sticking to a routine played into this. Same place, same time, with that gun, every day.

My day job is a banker. Many days I am the first to arrive. Even though I don't have the combination to the vault someone watching the bank would probably think the first middle aged guy showing up and turning off the alarm has the combination. So I am always vigilant about varying my routine, driving up at different times from different directions. I always circle the building, sometimes twice. I would prefer to enter using the two man method where one stays outside until the all clear is posted but I get in early and don't want to waste the morning waiting for someone else to show up.

Your methodology sounds very well thought out, good job.

 

[jbrown50]

Criminals will try to take anything that is of 'value' to them including guns. Your life is also considered valuable to a lot of criminals who would take it to satisfy their own selfish twisted reasons.

Sometimes armed robbers, due to anger hatred and jealousy, will shoot their male victims after robbing them even if the victims fully comply.

Be vigilant.

 

[SSN Vet]

His name was Jaron Singleton and in this link you can see his photo, and hear his mother and sister speak.

He was African-American.

I'm guessing that the murderers thought he was a cop and since standing alone, was an easy target.

Very dicey situation in St. Louis these days....

if you ware a uniform of any type, you're likely a target.

I think the more pertinent S&T topic is one of wearing a uniform in public.

At some military bases in the US, they are telling servicemen not to leave post wearing their uniform, as it serves as a great big target on your back.

I'd suggest that the second most pertinent S&T aspect of this crime is to avoid busses at all cost. Driving yourself, if at all possible, is much more secure.