Shot should surprise you?

[chickenfried]

A friend of mine didn't have a very good last high power match. He said a recent hunter safety class made him realize what he was doing wrong. One, he was muscling the rifle. Second, he said the shots weren't surpising him. I've heard him and others say this in the past. That the shot should surprise you. But it just don't sound right to me. Why should you be surprised by a shot? Isn't that partly why you dry fire so you get to know your trigger and the point at which it fires? I dunnho

 

[lycanthrope]

Yes and no.

The "surprise" method is good from the bench and prone positions where you have stability and are looking for the minimum sight disturbance. For standing and other shooting you need a controlled pull.

 

[olyAR73]

Flinch prevention.
Ever have someone play the dirty trick of loading a dummy round into your favorite bench rig? It shows you just how much you really flinch when your anticipating recoil/noise.

 

[Justin]

This is a good beginner's technique. It helps to keep the shooter from anticipating the shot.

When it comes to serious competitive and target shooting though, it's a whole other ball of wax.

 

[Justin]

This is a good beginner's technique. It helps to keep the shooter from anticipating the shot.

When it comes to serious competitive and target shooting though, it's a completely different ball of wax.

 

[Highpower1]

I agree with what Justin said.

When I first started training my wife (this girl had never been around firearms, basically thought they were evil as that was what the media had told her and lack of knowledge of firearms).

She was jerking the pistol badly the first time that we went to the range. I explained to her again (told her before going to the range but her fear made her forget everything that I had taught her in the pre-range talk). I explained the pressing the trigger and not knowing when it's gonna break. She immediately improved her shot placement. Smiles and this is not a flame but I have had so much more improvement from female shooters that I have instructed than I have males (not to get off the subject just a thought that came to me while typing this).

 

[bytor94]

Normally it is easier to instruct a female to shoot. They don’t have any of the macho bs hanging around and actually listen to what is said.

 

[P95Carry]

Recent NRA Basic Pistol course I was teaching - we did the ''ball&dummy'' routine ... it was (predictably) the most useful excercize of all. On balance the ladies teach quicker and easier - but to be fair, the guys did good too. We had a class of 16 and all were pretty good students.

Certainly too - when a student of mine live firing, could say ''oh, it went'' ... then their shot placement was a whole lot better.

 

[sm]

Good points have been made.

Along with Ball &cDummy , I have had the student hold the firearm , be it handgun, rifle or shotgun and I would pull the trigger.

Demonstrated a few things such as smooth consisitent pull on handguns and rifles, focus on target , importance of dryfiring , breathing ...etc.

Shotguns my point was to show not "death gripping" the SG , instead using a " hold it like a egg" the shotgun was not going to " fly back and knock them silly".

I would change roles and have them pull the trigger for me. Not having to " try and remember all this stuff at once" , instead breaking down into components students caught the idea a litte better.

Agree with Ladies making great students, Kids are great too. Easier if one does not have to "un-learn" a student.

 

[Lennyjoe]

I agree with what Justin said

Both times.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I understand that one should not anticipate a shot as one then develops the nice anticipatory flinch, but it always rubbed me wrong that we were supposed to be surprised by the shot. When I pull the trigger, I don't want any surprises. I want to know exactly what is going to happen and when.

 

[rust collector]

Spot on, Justin

If you're still surprised at the letoff after making 1000s of shots with that gun, something's terribly wrong. The surprise business is from instructors trying to emphasize the need for a steady pull. It's important to start new shooters off in the right direction by emphasizing the basics: squeeze, breath control, calling shots, etc. It soon becomes second nature, but each of us evolves by adapting what works best for us. A little coaching can help clean up bad habits, but shouldn't take us back to square one.

Teaching shooting skills in a hurry-up world takes an awful lot of patience and dedication. It's one of the most rewarding things old timers can do, but sometimes I have to remember what Hippocrates explained to med students: Above all, do no harm.

 

[Standing Wolf]

When it comes to serious competitive and target shooting though, it's a whole other ball of wax.

Yes and no—and you may evolve into an Adobe Garamond sort of guy when you're older, Justin.

I like my shots to come as surprises when I'm shooting my air pistol or bullseye slow fire; timed and rapid fire shots, however, are another matter altogether. It's recently occurred to me I have two distinct trigger pulls: same hand, same firearm, same trigger, but two approaches to the pull itself.

When I'm shooting slow fire, my entire focus is on steadying the point of aim so the red dot simultaneously stops wobbling and remains on the exact center of the bullseye. I tend to let the trigger take care of itself.

When I'm shooting timed and rapid fire, I'm forced to undertake other activities in addition to steadying the point of aim: keep count of my shots, judge the amount of time remaining, and remind myself when shooting timed fire that there's more than plenty of time to aim all five shots if I stay mentally focused. My rapid fire timing still needs work, but there, too, a significant portion of the challenge is to remember not to rush my shots. My trigger pull in both timed and rapid shooting is much more positive and conscious—and is becoming at least somewhat more consistent, as well.

I've got a timed fire target on the wall in my hall with a score of 293, 10 X out of a possible 300, 30 X. That's 95% mental focus, 5% trigger control.

 

[chickenfried]

I think I understand now. I was being thrown off by the use of the word "surprise". Let's see if it's clearer to me now.

Most of your focus should be on your front sight, sight alignment, etc. When you do pull the trigger it's without really thinking about it. Because all the factors for proper aim are there for a good shot, the trigger's pulled. You shot without fulling realizing you pulled the trigger.

I think that's the concept right?! In my head, surprise was equal to "what the !@#$% I let off a shot!"

 

[artherd]

Here's how I shoot:

You should know you are pulling the trigger, and you should know that in the next, oh, 1/5th of a second or so, the gun is going to go 'BOOM' as you're near the point where the triffer lets off. But the exact point in that 1/5th of a second gap where the round fires should not be your focus.

 

[Ryder]

Right and I think it is more useful for new shooters who are susceptable to flinch. I started out using that technique and it's what I tell people when I educate them how to shoot because it gives better accuracy than they can get jerking the trigger to get the shot off when their brain tells them the sights are lined up.

Once I got enough experience to rise above flinching and blinking (and who knows what else?) it did become possible to tell the gun when I wanted it to shoot and still get good results. In other words "trigger control" firing live rounds can be achieved which affects the gun alignment no differently from what it sees dry firing but it takes a lot of time and practice. The closest I can come to describing how this is done is to say have ice in your veins.

 

[jefnvk]

I started shooting shotguns, the original point and click interface . When I migrated over to rifles and pistols, I noticed that my groups weren't up to par. Seems I had transferred my trigger pull of a shotgun over to rifles. I have been working myself out of that by doing exactly this. I noticed my groups improving instantly.

Another good thing to do is get a misfire with surplus ammo. Then, you are actually expecting a bang, and you know how bad your flinch is, opposed to expecting nothing. I heard another good way is to have a buddy load a revolver with live rounds except one. You will not know which one isn't live, so when you hit it, you see the flinch.

 

[Standing Wolf]

...I think it is more useful for new shooters who are susceptable to flinch.

Actually, you're never too experienced to develop a flinch.

 

[goon]

I have heard and read that before and I don't quite get it. You have the rifle pointed downrange and you are pulling the trigger. You know that your rifle is going to fire when you pull the trigger.
That is why you are pulling the trigger... because you want the rifle to fire.

I really think that practice is the biggest thing when it comes to shooting any gun. I go through "phases" where I will shoot alot and be doing very well (at least by my standards), and then be a little more lax in regards to shooting. My skill never completely goes away, but I have noticed that I am much better when I have been shooting more. (Big suprise, huh?)
For me, practice takes care of flinching, blinking, jerking the trigger, etc. If I go without practice, I have to make an effort the first 20 rounds or so when I start shooting again to make sure that I am not allowing myself to make mistakes. I don't really ever have to worry much about breathing though. After 20 years of shooting, my body just "knows" how to breathe when I shoulder a rifle.
IMO, if you want to be a better shooter, you just have to shoot (correctly) more often.

 

[Stand_Watie]

Smiles and this is not a flame but I have had so much more improvement from female shooters that I have instructed than I have males (not to get off the subject just a thought that came to me while typing this).

Normally it is easier to instruct a female to shoot. They don’t have any of the macho bs hanging around and actually listen to what is said

My experience as well. I taught riflery to kids at summer camp one year. Even little boys who have no experience with firearms may be indoctrinated with the perception that shooting is a guy thing that makes them more difficult to teach. Or maybe there's a biological difference, I don't know. Not only do juvenile girls seem to listen better, but they also seem to have steadier muscle control. Or maybe it is all about the instructor. Remember the (I think it was Freud) thesis about interactions between opposite sexes? Perhaps female instructors have better results from male students?

 

[psyopspec]

The "shot should surprise you'' method is a good way for instructors to teach newbies not to anticipate the shot by flinching. It's a great technique when applied to the right circumstances and people, but not something a more experienced shooter generally needs to worry about.

 

[Ryder]

you're never too experienced to develop a flinch

Quite so. I do find myself having to develop trust in a new gun or load.