Shot the Boberg XR45......Wow!

[barnbwt]

Known Incompatible: Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P (1 separation in 85 rounds)

Right there in black and white. Did you check the site before buying ammo (you know, since there's no need to blindly test in this case), or was the list not compiled/complete then? I've seen numerous people complain about Speer GD in my brief research; it seems to be a widely known issue. I don't see how using a known problem-child in the gun when plenty of other alternatives exist is entirely logical. I guess I understand the psych aspect of not trusting a gun, but every firearm has a certain rate of failure, and a high one when subjected to stimuli outside its design. In the case of the Boberg crimp issue, it is at least easy to understand and counteract.

TCB

 

[gun_with_a_view]

The ninemm long model is a compact, concealable handgun that retains a full four-inch barrel. It is also exceptionally light at 18.5 oz. unloaded. This appears to a sea change in traditional handgun design. If it works. A few more reviews like LightningMan's and it's all over.

The 45, on the other hand, looks like it's been castrated from five inches down to barely nothing. Might as well spit the bullets downrange.

 

[alienbogey]

Any gun that cannot fire all types of ammo, is going to likely develop problems down the road.

I guess that means that Glocks, to pick just one example, are likely to develop problems down the road, because IIRC Glock recommends against shooting lead bullets through their firearms. Therefore Glocks cannot fire all types of ammo, so I guess Glocks are likely to develop problems down the road?

I have an early XR9S, with a serial in the 100's. The first day I took it to the range I took along a mixed bag of every different 9mm round I had. It yanked the bullet out of two rounds of one load from one brand. I don't run that brand/load through my Boberg any more. Simple.

My reloads had a few bullets yanked, so I adjusted my seater die to a tighter crimp and none have been yanked since. Simple.

My defense ammunition for it is on the "approved" list, and it has never once been yanked. Simple.

By all means, if it's too much trouble to buy ammunition from a long list of proven-to-work ammunition, and too much trouble to not buy cheap ammo on the short doesn't-work list, then don't purchase a Boberg.

And if, to avoid "likely troubles down the road", you demand that your pistol function flawlessly with every box of ammunition in that caliber ever made, then don't buy a Boberg.

Yes, I think that the Boberg ammo "issue" is overblown. :banghead:

Certainly at its price point and with it's unique features the Boberg is not for everyone—nor is it for most—but for those willing to put in a modest amount of care in feeding it, and a modest amount of time in learning the weapon's manual of arms, in return they get an innovatively designed and superbly built pistol that fills a niche very well.

 

[OcelotZ3]

A few more reviews like LightningMan's and it's all over.

Well, he ran ammo that is in on the list of problem ammo... Certainly if every owner ran ammo on the "known bad" list then people won't buy them.

I had problems with Blazer early on and it went onto the list shortly after. It only took one round for me to figure out it was bad and switch to others. Mine is SN #37 and it has been great.

 

[barnbwt]

Good point about the lead bullets in the hex rifled pistol barrels. Lots of people gnashed and wept about that being a 'deal breaker' and yet in practice it is a complete non-issue. Another foible worth mentioning is that a push-out design pistol isn't exactly immune to bullet setback; something worth remembering for people who use the loose crimped rounds that have issues in the Boberg. They might be moving around in your guns, too, and creating unsafe pressure spikes instead of a jam

TCB

 

[GBExpat]

I think the word "reloads" was what he was referring to....

Aaaahhhhh ... missed that ... thanks.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Why? Like Rohrbaugh, he sells every one he can make at his asking price

It's a good business question.

Henry Ford probably could have sold his early cars for a higher asking price and still sell every one he made, but felt there was far more profit to be had by selling them at a lower price point. That mean he had to invent the production line that allowed a lower cost.

Maybe that was the point of asking about mass production?

 

[george burns]

My 30S is 20 ozs and holds 11 rounds, and will shoot lead, "if I wanted to". What makes it worth 2x as much? You aren't going to pocket carry it, so what's the allure? Also being my 2nd 30 in 20 years, it has never failed to fire, clean, dirty, wet, or upside down.

 

[oneounceload]

Henry Ford probably could have sold his early cars for a higher asking price and still sell every one he made, but felt there was far more profit to be had by selling them at a lower price point. That mean he had to invent the production line that allowed a lower cost.

Don't confuse COST with PRICE. Making them quicker and more cheaply might mean more profit, not necessarily a lower selling price point. Something as unique as this would also seem to require a lot more handwork - most of the quality small pistols do - so it might just remain one that will be out of some folks' price range.

Maybe he prefers the Ferrari business model over the Ford - determine how many the market can bear and build one less - that way there is always a demand and the price remains high.

 

[george burns]

Let me tell you about Ferrari's, I owned one. It was the worse piece of junk of any car I have owned, Unless you had a Ferrari mechanic with you when driving. Not only did it break down the first night I had it, it had to be flat bedded into NYC from Long Island.
My good friend had the Mondieal and I had the 308, both were a disaster. His leaked every time it rained.
I imagine they are better now, but doubt they are made to actually be driven more than occasionally, I don't think I put 3000 miles on it, before trading it on a Porsche, of which I must say are great automobiles.

 

[farm23]

I would like to see Boberg be successful but at this time if I were to get another 45 it probably be a Glock 30S. I congratulate Boberg on telling the public what will work in their guns but I may not be able to find that ammo. With time Boberg may work thru their issues but at least they tell you up front what to expect.

 

[Rembrandt]

I don't see the bullet separation issue ever being resolved....the Boberg would have to be redesigned as a "cartridge pusher" rather than "cartridge puller". All the side benefits of less recoil, longer barrel, and smaller carry would be lost.

The Bobergs "pulling concept" has been around for over a hundred years beginning with Hiram Maxim's first machine gun. Didn't see the military poo-poo the design, the solution was quite simple, crimp the rounds......problem goes away.

I've collected vast quantities of guns over the years, but the Boberg is the most refreshing, innovative, and fun gun I've picked up in the last 20 years. Been carrying it for over a year now and love it.



george burns....we agree on the Ferrari 308, one of the most uncomfortable things I ever drove. How in the world Tom Seleck ever managed to easily slide his 6 foot plus frame into the seat on "Magnum P.I." is beyond me. Car was not made for anyone over 6 foot tall.

 

[grter]

I like what I hear about it. A compact with a 3.75 inch barrel (almost a full 4 inches, that alone should help with muzzle blast and flip) that is accurate and reliable with the right ammo.

It's US made and the manufacturer backs up the product from what I have been reading here.

Best of all instead of putting out all the advertising hype that so many other manufacturers put (really I am quite sick of it) out they will tell you what works in it and what does not work.

It sounds like a quality American made product with significant improvements that solve some major issues with compact pistols.

It is not made in some foreign sweat shop staffed by poor exploited workers and definately not an option for bargain hunting cheapskates.

If you can not afford to buy it please don't take offense and I don't blame you for getting what you can that will function at a low price point.

It seems that some people here are trying to paint this gun as a lemon and I don't see that as the case from what I have been reading.

 

[barnbwt]

I congratulate Boberg on telling the public what will work in their guns but I may not be able to find that ammo.

I hate to be insistent, but did you look at the list? I wish any gun store or big box retailer near me had a fraction of the selection that has been thoroughly vetted. For 45acp, which I assume has not been thusly vetted as of yet (seeing as Boberg probably isn't blowing thousands of rounds just to satisfy picky customers once the gun has been shown to work with a number of common loads, same as every other maker) I can understand the argument.

But the 9mm has been out for 3 years now, with either rave reviews, or people that fell out of love with it (often for non-mechanical reasons; it is a unique/niche gun after all). Even if a few lemons or gremlins make it out, the owner's have had nothing but good things to say about the business and service side of the purchase. Still we have people saying the design itself is 'unproven,' and too big a risk to undertake unless priced the same as a Glock . Crimp the bullet right, and it's a complete non-issue. Same thing for light strikes on hard primers (an issue in most striker fired guns).

Didn't see the military poo-poo the design, the solution was quite simple, crimp the rounds......problem goes away.

Good point; don't most belt-feds violently yank the rounds backward from their links? If it is not a far-fetched request to ask that people 'dress for the gun' or whatever, how is requiring they avoid a short list of bad ammo types a bridge too far? Whoever mentioned oblivious and petulant consumers was on to something. Boberg has consistently done everything right by us buyers, other than to copy the gun a few of us already own

I don't see the bullet separation issue ever being resolved

I don't either, but neither will magazine feed issues in push-throughs (I have to imagine the X9R design is at least slightly more resistant to feed lip/ramp geometry issues), nor dangerous bullet setback, for that matter.

Don't confuse COST with PRICE. Making them quicker and more cheaply might mean more profit, not necessarily a lower selling price point. Something as unique as this would also seem to require a lot more handwork - most of the quality small pistols do - so it might just remain one that will be out of some folks' price range.

Ya'll do realize the parts are (the only pistols'?) made on a 5-axis CNC machining center, right? The handgun is a compilation of aircraft parts, to put it simply, and there is a certain cost associated with this as opposed to a Browning slide/barrel that's been optimized for 100 years, now.

As far as the Ford; it was so cheap that it was, and is, still the second most expensive purchase a consumer will ever make by far . Much like cell phones, the true genius of Ford was in convincing the public to divert such a large portion of their earnings toward a new consumable item that was previously non-existent. Fords were also cheap due to extensive foreign/domestic sourcing of materials in 3rd world plantations/colonies, which was not terribly unlike the modern practice of outsourcing what you can to keep costs low; Ford couldn't have outsourced the manufacturing operations even if he'd tried. I also question how many of the workers outside the publicly-touted manufacturing operations had wages high enough to buy the vehicles as is always claimed (like the miners or tree-fellers far away in the backwoods US & South America). Lots of historical revision to the Ford mythology, same as every other famous tale

TCB

 

[george burns]

I don't think that, I just don't think it should be touted as a primary self defense weapon. More of a unique gun to add, or not to a collection. It's not price as many here have much more expensive guns. It's weather it catches on, and if parts remain available if it doesn't.
Kind of like the Chiapa 357. They had high hopes for that gun also. Same price range, just didn't catch on. Let' wait and see.

 

[grter]

This is nothing like the Chiappa .357 at all there is no comparison.

From what I have read the XR45s and 9s would make excellent primary concealed carry self defense guns since they are smaller, have more power and accuracy than other guns that size whether top end brands or lower priced knockoffs of top end brands.

It looks like a very practicle firearm to me, a compact that can shoot as well as a medium to full size. I like the site radius too. It sure beats pissing in the wind with a short, stubby, flipping barrel (short, stubby flipping barrels are not bad with a lot of training but this one fixes that problem.)

 

[barnbwt]

More like the Mateba, if anything, but far, far more practical in every way (size not being one of them; that's a mere characteristic, for which we must have diversity in our weaponry)

TCB

 

[aarondhgraham]

I must not love my family very much,,,

And this is the laziest comment when it comes to discussing price. Are you really implying that those who carry a $500 Glock only think the lives of their families are worth $500?

I agree completely.

I don't want to ban people for saying this,,,
I just want them to know how inane and insulting it is.

It implies that because I carry a $299.00 LCP,,,
I love my family less than someone who carries a $1,000.00 EMP.

Shame on you for posting that old saw,,,
Especially for posting it as if you knew something
It simply confirms your lack of any vestige of original thought.

Aarond

.

 

[JohnBT]

I don't find the phrase to be insulting. What I hear when I read it is, "Isn't your family worth every penny you feel like spending whether it's $1k or $2k or whatever?"

It's not nearly as silly a statement as is regularly seen from the people who insult anyone who dares to spend more than the bare minimum necessary to buy a reliable pistol. You know, "You could have gotta XYZ for a lot less and bought more ammo and had money left over."

It's not my fault - or maybe it actually is - that I can afford a gun that costs more than the bare minimum and all the ammo I want and have money left over. Maybe they need to get a part-time job or three and quit worrying how people spend their pocket change.

I always was a little thick-skinned, and now I'm retired and really don't care. It's just something to kick around.

John

P.S. - They'd really hate to see my restaurant tabs. Trendy food is worse than trendy guns. A quick Sunday brunch - 2 Mimosas and 2 bowls of fancy veggies with some bacon crumbles - with tax and tip was $46. Dinner this coming Saturday night for our 2nd date is going to be costly, but we've decided that trying every highly rated restaurant in town is going to be a good hobby. We have to eat while we talk about travel, right?

 

[Tirod]

The majority of the population is NOT getting better off. Wages have remained static over the last 15 years, while inflation has crept along. The average used car is now more than 10 years old. Our newest car is an '03. That same model is now $20,000.

When both adults are working and still making less than the national median age for one, in a metro that has 79% of the wage rate and 84% of the cost of living, then what you spend in cash is extremely important. It was said that in NYC the there is a millionaire for every 22 citizens. At my wage rates I would be living on the street - which is why nobody would take that little pay there.

Here, you get by, enjoy a fairly quiet community, stay away from the driveby's and gangbangers in their hoods, go to your kids ball games, and deal with the demographic that you either punch the clock or own the business/supervise/salaried manager. There is largely NO middle class and never has been in this town.

So the price of things is important, and why we have historically had gasoline 15% cheaper than the coasts. Tracphone sells very well here. A mobile booth made money hand over fist signing up free government sponsored cell phones. And management well knows they are a paying $2.00 less an hour compared to the next metro 60 miles away.

So, for those who enjoy their cash flow rich privileged status, it's not so nice down in the streets. Looking down from on high doesn't get you a realistic sense of what the market offers to the majority of your fellow citizens in a region. Which is why you have to really save up money to afford a $700 alloy framed SA auto pistol, compared to a polymer one for hundreds less. You are really deciding to forgo some other possession making that decision. It's not a matter of choosing which one first, it's a matter of choosing the only one.

It's the kind of thinking that a spoiled boomer hasn't encountered in their life. Which makes the reports of the Boberg interesting from an informational point of view, but only as entertainment. Maybe we can buy one used in a few years - if we want to forego something else, and that is only with the discretionary cash above and beyond the limited amount we have for daily living.

Which means people like me don't buy lunch out except maybe once a month as a luxury, brown bag it, maintain our own car including installing an engine and transmission to keep it running - being it's 15 years old and a new $20k vehicle is entirely out of the question. But, some of us pay cash not credit and own everything we have. Which is entirely different than handing over most of your paycheck to finance all the things you don't really own, just rent because none of it is actually paid for.

Push come to shove, in a downturn we already have our expenses in hand. It's those living on the margin who get their bubble burst, and who flee their debts for others to pay, abandoning most of their possessions to be thrown in the dumpster or sold in flea market booths.

I shop them and get pretty good bargains. So, continue the lifestyle, could you pick out a nice suit 46S in a decent grey pinstripe, I have my daughters wedding to attend in a few years. I'll only wear it once but for $45 something in Italian silk would be nice for her.

 

[JohnBT]

"The majority of the population is NOT getting better off."

Money doesn't seem to go as far as it did when I started working and saving in 1964, but there wasn't as much to buy back then. There have been a number of recessions along the way, so this is hardly the first bumpy patch economy-wise. Heck, when I bought my home - still in it - in 1980 I got a conventional 30-year mortgage with a rate of 12.75%. And that was with 25% down. It took half my monthly net to pay it. More than half if you count insurance.

For 37 years in a row I worked with individuals with disabilities to assist with education, training and job placement. I've met a lot of folks with little or no money and very few prospects, even in good years. I never made a great deal of money in any one year, but I retired almost 2 years ago and now I'm spending what's left while it's still worth something.

But the point was that I don't hear that phrase the way some folks hear it. I don't hear it as a put down.

John... I'm a long way from that row house in Baltimore.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Several folks have given their version. I'll give mine. To keep it a gun related topic, I can only say that the RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS may soon be lost to us, simply because many of us won't be able to afford guns or ammo... I know for a fact that I don't shoot nearly as much as I used to because of higher costs!! (I know, I know -- I should get reloading equipment...)

WWII finally got us out of the Depression, taught the Western world how to use industrial power to turn things around, and changed the world as we know it. Countries were CHANGED by the new technologies and having to interact with other cultures.

Subsequent wars, from Korea. to Vietnam, to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, have had mostly negative effects on our position in the world and the world's economies. We've spent $billions, killed hundreds of thousands, seen our own soldiers and sailors die, but achieved very little. I don't think those wars have made the world a better place.

My father did better than his father, and I did better than my father. My son, who is smart, hard working, and reasonably well-educated, probably won't live as well as I do when he reaches my age (unless he inherits some of our property -- if any is left when we die). It's hard to see HIS son (our grandson) doing much better, either, unless things change pretty dramatically over the next decade. We hope to help with our grandson's college expenses, and that may help him live a little better.

I worked my way through college -- it took me just about 5 years. I did it without family help (they really couldn't help) or student loans. The only financial aid I got was the GI Bill, which in the ate 1960's was only $100 a month, It didn't start until I was a rising Junior.

Working your way through college with no debit s almost impossible nowadays -- as college has become far too expensive for most people. State governments don't subsidize state schools much, and private colleges, even when well-endowed, seem to be more focused on their business models, sports machines, and new buildings, than educating their students. When kids go to college or technical training now they end up taking on debt that it takes a lifetime to repay. And while graduates and certificate/license holders will may MAKE higher wages, far too many students don't graduate, and then they've got debt and no offsetting benefits or higher income. Even those who do graduate may job hunt for a long time.

Things aren't as good as they used to be. Part of this is due to the economic downturn out of which we finally seem to be working our way. But the things that created that downturn -- society's powerful obsession with material wealth and short-term profits at any cost -- is still there and still leading us to what may be some very some dark places.

I'm wary that we are on the verge of seeing the American Dream slowly become the American Nightmare. For some it already has...

 

[FlyingScot]

Just read this thread ...

...to find out what people thought who owned, had shot, or were considering buying. Instead mostly 3 pages of guessing, arguing semantics, etc.

Please - could someone with a shred of experience with this platform or informed opinion provide a bit of detail?

 

[Walt Sherrill]

These message chains often go astray. This one did.

I think you're going to find it hard to get much feedback on the gun in question, as it's quite rare, moderately expensive (which will keep it rare) and designed for an obviously unusual buyer.

All I can say is that it's an interesting design -- and might be more pleasant to shoot than you'd expect. Most "compact" .45s aren't.

 

[Rembrandt]

Walt is right, there are probably less than 100 of the 45's out right now. The one I got a chance to shoot was from the first 25 that had been shipped.

Talked to my co-worker today, who said he ran several boxes of 180 grain Winchester white box through it....no problems. It is one of the most pleasant and controllable compacts I've ever shot.

Here's a video/review of the XR45.....enjoy.

http://community.bobergarms.com/video/boberg-xr45-s-the-pocket-monster-pistol