shotgun itch

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

I didn't think you could get 80 grains of 3F in a 45-70 case. I never tried but the most 2F I could get was about 67 grains. I just leveled it off at 65.

Since most folks don't actually weigh their BP loads, it all depends on the measure used and how accurate it is or isn't.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I didn't think you could get 80 grains of 3F in a 45-70 case. I never tried but the most 2F I could get was about 67 grains. I just leveled it off at 65.

Actually, I can get 82 grains (by weight, 3fg Swiss) under the Speer 400 grain JSP. It's a fairly short bullet for it's weight. It does require a lot of compression and the drop tube. I shoot that in the Marlin.

With the 405 grain cast bullet, which is much longer I can get 70+ grains in pretty easy and that shoots well in both my Trapdoors, rifle and carbine. My carbine is actually more accurate than my rifle. ! The rifle has a pretty big pit just ahead of the chamber.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

And the Marlin likes it a lot.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

I wouldn't think a pit in front of the chamber would affect accuracy all that much, I would look at the crown for any dings or damage. Also what is the rifling twist?, my trapdoor has a slower twist, which surprised me, than my roller has. Maybe yours will do better with a lighter bullet.

 

[paul harm]

Mr Browning considered the A-5 his greatest achievement - it would fire black powder or nitro. The clean up might not be fun if shooting BP.
As Hawg refereed to, the buckshot has to be the right diameter so it will lay flat, and some buffer included to keep the balls in place [ or cards above and below the BS]. Other wise the BS will try to creep into the empty spaces and come out deformed giving a poor, or no pattern.
Maybe the best solution, if you just want to shoot a BP shotgun, is to reload modern shells with BP. All you need if you don't have a SS press is a big nut for the shell to sit on , and a dowel with a finish nail sticking out the end about 1/4 to 3/8". Stand the shell up on the nut, insert the dowel and hit it - it's now deprimed. Put a primer on a flat surface, put the shell over it with another dowel inside and hit it. You're now primed. From Precision Reloading or BPI you can buy a cheap adjustable measuring tool for shot and powder. With BP you normal use equal amounts of powder and shot. Fiber wads can also be bought from the above or you could make them. Powder first, a hard .125 over powder card, a 1/2" soft cushion wad [ or what ever thickness you need for a good stack height - trail and error ], shot, and a .028 [ you want thin ] thick overshot card. If you have a press you could fold crimp it and forget the OS card. Or buy a roll crimper, or just glue the overshot card in. Those cushion wads can be sliced with a thumb nail for different thicknesses for proper stack height for a good crimp.
Most 12ga loads are anywhere from 70 to 80 or 90grs of 2F, 1oz to 1 1/4. The load I use the most is 1oz, 75grs of 3F. But then I'm getting a little long in the tooth and don't like a lot of recoil. Also most my shooting is claybirds.
I run the shotgun venue at my club and put on a SxS event every year. Some of the guys shoot BP and we have an award for it because it's so much harder - on doubles many times you can't see the second shot. At this time I have a Lefever 10ga, three Parkers - two 12s and a 10, nine Remingtons - one is a 10 the rest 12ga guns. Oh ya, a little Dickinson 410. All the guns are Damascus except three Remingtons and the 410. I limit my BP shells to SxS events.
Remington never got the name like Parker or LC Smith, but they and Ithaca built some of the best guns. Open one up and see how many fewer parts are being used. The only thing I've ever had to do to my Remingtons is replace the top lever spring on two of them.
Find yourself a cheap used single or double barrel gun and give it a try.

 

[Seedy Character]

Forget the sabot. Use an over powder wad and over shot card.

It will be a light .410 type load, though.

Load regular 12 ga hulls with 80 gr BP and a 1 1/8 oz wad. Don't shoot in a semi-auto!

A decent SxS can be found for $400. A single shot is $150.

Most fun rabbit hunting you will ever have.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I wouldn't think a pit in front of the chamber would affect accuracy all that much, I would look at the crown for any dings or damage. Also what is the rifling twist?, my trapdoor has a slower twist, which surprised me, than my roller has. Maybe yours will do better with a lighter bullet.

Oh c'mon, last time you suggested re-crowning it worked. Yes, I need to do more shooting/experimenting with the rifle. I have no idea what the twist would be, but it's vintage 1884.

On the other hand, about the crown, when I got that rifle it had pretty severe muzzle wear/ram-rod wear from cleaning, and I had to counter-bore the muzzle to get to the rifling, probably a good 1/2". Not really having the proper tools to do that, I would guess that the muzzle is the problem. However, it's not terribly inaccurate, just less accurate than my carbine, which is kind of especially accurate. !!

 

[hawg]

I have no idea what the twist would be, but it's vintage 1884.

I:22

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Thanks Hawg, I gotta check it on my trapdoor. The rolling block I think is 1 in 12 or there about.

 

[hawg]

Thanks Hawg, I gotta check it on my trapdoor. The rolling block I think is 1 in 12 or there about.

Should be 1:18.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

I need to check it, it's not an original barrel. I built this roller from an Egyptian contract Remington. The barrel is a modern Green Mountain barrel. I do know it's a faster twist than the trapdoor.

 

[hawg]

See, there you go leaving out vital information. The one they have on their website is 1:18 but that is neither here nor there.

 

[Dirty Bob]

Anybody other than me try a Short Lane (gunadapters.com) muzzleloader insert? You can make your own by cutting the plastic off a high-brass shell and hand-turning a quarter-inch drill bit in the primer opening so primers can be removed with a fingernail while leaving the adapter in the breech. The homemade version of the adapter has more gas leakage, though. You're essentially turning a single shot into an inline muzzleloader.

I use my 20ga NEF with shotgun primers and paper cartridges loaded with black powder. Still experimenting, but the results have encouraged me, so far.

Regards,
Bob

 

[noelf2]

Anybody other than me try a Short Lane (gunadapters.com) muzzleloader insert? You can make your own by cutting the plastic off a high-brass shell and hand-turning a quarter-inch drill bit in the primer opening so primers can be removed with a fingernail while leaving the adapter in the breech. The homemade version of the adapter has more gas leakage, though. You're essentially turning a single shot into an inline muzzleloader.

I use my 20ga NEF with shotgun primers and paper cartridges loaded with black powder. Still experimenting, but the results have encouraged me, so far.

Regards,
Bob

Why not just load up up some shells with bp? I guess I would muzzleload a break action shotgun like you if I had no shells.

 

[Dirty Bob]

Why not just load up up some shells with bp? I guess I would muzzleload a break action shotgun like you if I had no shells.

I find it easier to make paper cartridges -- especially since I was interested in classic "musket" loads of ball, buck and ball, and buckshot. Making the cartridges was also fun, and they're easy to experiment with. I also find the whole muzzleloading thing enjoyable, and I was able to share it with some beginning shooters recently.

I guess a big part of it is that I looked for an inline muzzleloading shotgun and didn't find one. With an adapter, I get to try muzzleloading for a very low price. Paper cartridges make loading faster and easier.

I want to try black powder in shells, also. One thing I especially want to try is my subsonic .410 slug load -- using a backwards .41 Mag. cast SWC bullet hot glued into a Ballistic Products .410 Stump wad to form a slug that looks a bit like like a tiny shuttlecock -- with black powder. I've been pretty happy with it in a smokeless load.

I'd also love to see how well a Mossberg 500 tolerates black powder shells. I think I'll be able to get at least a few shots off before fouling becomes an issue, and Mossbergs aren't all that hard to clean.

Sorry for the long answer. The short answer is: paper cartridges looked like fun!

All my best,
Dirty Bob

 

[Seedy Character]

I had a couple boxes of old, paper hull, BP shotshells. Loads of fun.

I reloaded a box of AA hulls with BP. Makes for an interesting round of skeet.

 

[Keyfer 55]

I've experimented with 410 shotgun slugs and roundball for that perfect load. I got a
customer rifled barrel HBBS, it was good
but they went out of business so I got a .411 JDJ I never looked back. It will shoot 410 pellet slug, roundball, Rifled slug and heavy rifle bullets.I don't suggest putting a shotgun shell in the barrel. I could never get the HBBS
as accurate as the JDJ TC encore barre!

 

[paul harm]

The use of plastic wads and BP may cause a problem. A close friend, who is also a gunsmith , and I, one time went to a SxS shotgun shoot. He decided to shoot BP shells that day. After about a 100 there was noodles of curly plastic starting to grow out of his barrels.You could hardly see down them and the recoil was increasing. If I remember correctly it took him about an hour or two to clean everything up at the end of the day. I've been told the manufactures of plastic sabots use a different plastic than regular shotgun wads. And his shooting so much so fast would be different than what most guys do. But it's something to think about. The melted plastic in your barrel could go over the BP fowling and if not cleaned real good could cause a big problem down the road.

 

[Dirty Bob]

Thank you very much for that warning on plastic wads. I wonder if some cork or cardboard in between the powder and plastic would prevent the melting. I have to do some testing!

 

[Seedy Character]

Felt wad

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

I have yet to see the melting plastic thing in my shotgun, I have used plastic wads for many years and never seen anything melted into the barrels. Taken a few limits on dove and quail and shot a round or two of trap. I think if there's enough cool down time between shots maybe there's no problem.