Shotgun pistol grip or conventional stock?

[basicblur]

Finally getting my first shotgun (just because everybody needs one of everything?) and am still sorting a few wants / needs.

Got tired of waiting for the KSG to appear (been 2 years I have yet to see one) so I have a Mossberg 590A1 with Ghost Ring sights on the way.

Just curious to see how many folks prefer a pistol grip (not talking pistol grip only) and how many prefer a conventional stock?

Mine has a conventional stock, which I'm no doubt going to have to shorten (maybe one of the Hogue shorter stocks?), but the more I play with shotguns, the more I think I'm leaning towards staying with a conventional stock.

 

[1911 guy]

If by pistol grip you mean pistol grip only, I'd pass on it for a conventional stock. If, however, the shotgun is not to be used for wingshooting and you mean a pistol gripped stock similar to the AR and AK type, go for it. My HD gun is set up that way.

PGO, however (pistol grip only) limits use so much that there really aught to be a warning on them: "If not used for door breaching, this stock will turn your otherwise functional shotgun into a very short and unwieldy club. And not a particularly good club."

 

[rcmodel]

IMO: A shotgun without a butt stock (PG only) is not a usable shotgun.

It is an action movie/video game prop that impresses the kids that don't know how a shotgun is used.

Especially on moving game, or ever much more important, for a HD gun.

The stock can be clamped under your arm if necessary during a close range confrontation.
And once clamped, Atilla the Hun couldn't twist it away from you.

A pistol grip only shotgun is a disarming waiting for you to meet the first guy who lifted weights in prison the last time he was there and gets a hold of the barrel.

rc

 

[owlhoot]

I think the pistol grip shotgun has a lot to recommend it. It is handy for keeping a gun at the ready using only one hand while the other hand is busy opening a door or performing some other task. It probably helps to mitigate felt recoil, and it might offer better leverage in a tussle over the gun with an adversary. Still I voted for the conventional stock simply because that's what I have on all of my shotguns. That's what I've used all my life. That's what I am comfortable with. To me the benefits conferred by the pistol grip don't trump the comfort and confidence that I have with the conventional. In other words, I'm lazy. (I assume we are talking about the AR pistol grip with a full shoulder stock.) I concur with the others that a pistol grip only shotgun is anathema.

 

[chris in va]

On a side note, I had a Knoxx recoil reducing pistol grip stock on my Mossberg. I sold it a couple months later and dearly wish they had made the Comp Stock at that time, which is sans the pistol grip. It was pretty much useless when informally shooting clays.

 

[ugaarguy]

I've moved this from General Gun Discussions to Shotguns, since this is the appropriate forum.

 

[pps]

If you are referring to a "pistol grip only" I really have no use for them.

 

[guyfromohio]

Echoing the statements about PGO, don't do it. If you are describing pistol grip on a "stocked" gun, then consider your purpose. You bought a fighting gun and were looking at a fighting gun, so I assume you want something "tactical". I have dozens of shotguns and only one is a pistol gripped supernova. For defensive purposes, I like it. However, I will admit that operating the pump action feels awkward in that position. I find myself having to be more purposeful with the action. May just be years of shooting my Wingmaster creating that muscle memory. Long-story-short.... I would probably put a pistol gripped stock on that 590A1, but I don't think you will really gain any functionality. There are others whose opinions should be taken more seriously. I'm just a guy on the interwebz who happens to like guns and lacks social skills to interact with real people.

 

[arspeukinen]

You can't easily reach the mossberg safety with pistol grip. I switched back to original stock.

 

[Ash]

What else can I say but to echo rcmodel. Folks do bring up the advantage of a pistol grip when opening a door but that is only theoretical in my opinion. Whatever you do opening a door, your shotgun will not be at the ready. Only a fool would try to shoot a shotgun one handed (and they would shoot it only once). So, any other movement takes the shotgun out of action until you have both hands on it again. Left hand on the forearm keeps a shotgun just as ready as one on a pistol grip.

As to pistol grip only shotguns, they are useless except perhaps for breaching doors and even then they are no better than a shotgun with a stock. They are akin to shooting a folding stock rifle with the stock folded. Do it a few times and you discover why the A-Team never hit anything. All you have is a dangerous noise maker.

Now, a pistol grip and a stock are fine but don't float my boat and have never found them superior in actually using a shotgun. I have never fumbled a semi-pistol grip design when rising from a frigid duck blind to take out a flight of mallards or specks. Numb hands, adrenalin-infused excitement, and a sudden leap to the feet while grabbing a shotgun are as good a test as I can think of.

Indeed, I actually think a pistol grip would be harder to grasp as you can slide your hand quickly down the stock from the top, grab the grip and forearm, flick the safety off, and blam, blam, blam! A pistol grip means you have to reach under the stock and grab it intentionally.

 

[oneounceload]

which I'm no doubt going to have to shorten

Why do you say that?

 

[basicblur]

Why do you say that?

My brother has an old Remington Police 870 that he's customized, and he both cut the length of the stock as well as cut down the cheek weld (wish I could talk him out of it!). His LOP is 13" - the 590A1 I have on the way has a longer LOP - just handling various guns, I'm assuming I'm going to have to have a LOP similar to his - the stock guns I've handled felt like the stock was too long for me.

Not going to do anything in a hurry - was considering:
1. An adjustable stock (but the Mossberg's safety location works better with a conventional stock).
2. A Knoxx Stock, although I'm seeing a lot of folks complain about the Knoxx Stock working on their cheeks - some think the gun also torques to one side with the Knoxx Stock. All these reviews I've seen are with the older Knoxx - I know they've made a lot of changes on the GEN II, but I have yet to find any tests of it.

 

[basicblur]

I've edited the original post to point out that I'm not talking pistol grip ONLY.
I should have been more specific, but when I mentioned I had a 590A1 on the way, I figured that would eliminate the pistol grip only configuration?

The boyz at the gun shop told me long ago that they cannot remember a single customer who bought a pistol grip only gun that did not end up adding a stock.
That bit of info eliminated a pistol grip only configuration a long time ago.

Darn if a conventional stock isn't growing on me the more I handle the two styles, but since I'm an AR guy, I was thinking a pistol grip stock might be for me (but I guess there are good / bad points to that?).

Right now I'm thinking the biggest advantage of a pistol grip stock would be adjustable length - not so much the pistol grip?

 

[kBob]

Some folks that have used the same types of shotguns with both stocks side by side insist that pistol gripped stocks actually produce more felt recoil. That was also my experience with 870s. The most brutal shotgun I ever shot was the old factory folder on an 870 BTW. Next was I believe (it has been a while) a Choate fixed stock with pistol grip on an 870.

Felt recoil is however subjective.....except that factory folder 870 tended to bruise most folks in Florida some wear.

A pistol grip is one more projection on a shotgun to get caught on something or bump into something.

The OP is getting a Mossberg. On a 500 series Mossy the safety location makes it impossible to use with the shooting hand from a pistol grip stock. One must either take the non firing hand off the slide and reach back to work the safety or take the firing hand off the pistol grip and reach up to work the safety.

A Mossberg can be fired at extreme close range effectively one handed from the shooting hand with out damaging the hand or wrist and then the free hand brought to the gun for follow up shots.

I own and have shot in professionally taught classes a Mossberg 500 BTW
and I have shot it one handed both tucked in as I was once taught with a rifle when prisoner handling, and with arm extended as I have also shot a 10.5 inch barreled double used in law enforcement and have no joint issues in my shooting arm. I do not encourage anyone else to do so, but blanket statements about it not being possible to shoot a 12 gauge one handed are certainly not called for here.

Having a bit of experience at old style bayonet fighting and experience with both conventional stock guns and pistol gripped guns I see no special retention abilities to the pistol grip against trained or untrained advisories.

My vote made it 30 conventional votes to 2 pistol grip and I think that sort of supports my vote in itself.......though it is possible that 30 0f 32 voters are un informed, just look at our US government.

-kBob

 

[basicblur]

just look at our US government.

While doing my research, I can't recall seeing a single pix of military folks in action with shotguns that had a pistol grip, although I'm sure they're out there?

I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir (since I'm not a shotgun guy), but my research baseline was the Mossberg 500 - didn't take long to bump it up to the 590A1 as I like the various plastic parts on the 500 being replaced with metal on the 590A1 (per the military).

 

[loose noose]

What RC said plain and simple. In all the Police Cruisers you won't see a pistol gripped shotgun, there must be a reason.

 

[lemaymiami]

On the street I totally relied on my shotgun instead of my sidearm anytime there was the slightest possibility that firearms might be needed. All I ever used were the old, beat up, riot configured shotgun, either Remington or Mossberg (standard 18 to 20" barrel, four in the tube, one in the chamber, with only a single front bead sight) and never lacked confidence that I had the winning ticket.... All were barely "rack grade" quality with standard wood stock and foregrip.

If any first time shotgunner came to me wanting instruction on defensive use of their weapon all of the work we'd do would concentrate on learning weapons handling until they could do it in the dark, and range time until they mastered both buckshot and rifled slugs (and with a bit of training anyone should be able to hit a simple 10" paper plate every time with a rifled slug at 25 meters, with a bit more work 50 meters with only a front bead sight... once again -every time).

With that standard prep work, next they'd learn patterning, skip shooting, and other simple techniques. That sort of stuff is your advance skill set, making that user a formidable opponent in any circumstance.

The only items to purchase? Lots of ammo (starting with low power birdshot, then progressing to heavier loads of 00buck and standard slugs), and range time if that was required..... Yes, you should add a sling if you're going to carry and use on the street -that's not needed for home defense, though.

 

[oneounceload]

but since I'm an AR guy,

That explains why you want to shorten the stock, IMO. Too many used to an AR think they need to scrunch up on a shotgun stock as opposed to making the gun fit them.

 

[Skribs]

It really depends on the shotgun. I like pistol grips, but I think they get in the way with most shotguns. For example, the safety on the mossberg is harder to hit with a pistol grip installed than a conventional stock. I also think tube-fed shotguns are better with a conventional stock.

However, if the safety is in a different location (i.e. most other manufacturers) then that takes out one of the negatives. On a box-fed shotgun like the Saiga or Vepr shotguns, I would definitely vote pistol grip.

 

[SlowFuse]

I like pistol grip stocks (not pgo) on rifles. For example ar15, ak and even one of my sks's have these. But since were talking shotgun I voted conventional.

 

[herrwalther]

I like the pistol grip on my 12ga shotgun. But it also has a collapsible stock.

The military uses pistol grip only on the 590A1s. I have seen a few with stocks but they were added by the operator from the armory stock PGO configuration.

 

[Ceemack]

Pistol grips generally don't belong on pump guns, as they make it too hard to reach all of the controls. On an 870, it becomes too hard to reach the slide release. On a Mossberg, as others have said, you'd lose the ability to reach the safety.

As for shortening the stock...frankly, a shotgun like the Mossberg already has a fairly short LOP. I know one guy who has trouble with the standard 13.5" LOP on a Mossberg, and he's about 5'7" and about 140 lbs. If you're any bigger than that, you should be fine.

 

[Inebriated]

On Mossbergs, conventional stocks. The safety location makes pistol grip stocks impractical.

On other shotguns, however, it's a toss-up. If it's a good stock, I'll take either. However, I do think I'll have to give the nod to the conventional stock. Right now, my 870 is wearing a Mesa Tactical Urbino, but for a long time, it had the factory stock. Pistol grip stocks do offer better one-handed control, and better retention.

Another option for your Mossberg is the Magpul SGA.

 

[perpster]

How To?

A Mossberg can be fired at extreme close range effectively one handed from the shooting hand with out damaging the hand or wrist and then the free hand brought to the gun for follow up shots.

I own and have shot in professionally taught classes a Mossberg 500 BTW
and I have shot it one handed both tucked in as I was once taught with a rifle when prisoner handling, and with arm extended...

kBob, Could you please elaborate on these methods? Thanks.

 

[Panzerschwein]

For the Mossy, a conventional stock is far better. Due to the safety be atop the receiver, a pistol grip stock makes it hard to get the thumb up there to switch of the safety. On something like a Remington 870 that has a push-button, the pistol grip stock begins to make more sense but IMHO offers no real advantage over a conventional stock. It might look more tacticool and impressive to the mall ninja crowd, but in reality it doesn't do a darn thing better (how can it??).