CaptTripps
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I'm starting to think oolong is trolling us all.
Shotgun Questions
- Thread starter Oolong
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danez71
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Kendal Black
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Trolling or not, the conversation has focused attention on an interesting question. It is possible to look at guns and shooting in different ways: ends first or means first.
By ends first I mean that the purpose to be accomplished is the primary question in view: holes in the target. If a suitable tool for that purpose is well proven, all the better. A new tool has a lot to measure up to. It has to show some points of superiority in attaining the practical goal.
Means first is looking at the tool as the interesting part. That produces quite the opposite of the conservative ends-first attitude. The coolness factor of a new or different gun is important in weapon selection and badassedness counts for a lot.
In practice we all harbor a little of both views, but the balance in most guys here is toward the ends-first, practical and proven.
How, then, shall I explain Oolong's endwise flip from a very new gun, the UTAS, that looks like a prop from a sci fi movie, to a very old one, the 1887, that looks like a prop from a western? I think the answer here is that either is cool because both are different, a bit contrarian, and not what most are using.
Note, in the video below, that you do not need to be young to be taken with the cool factor of an unusual gun.
By ends first I mean that the purpose to be accomplished is the primary question in view: holes in the target. If a suitable tool for that purpose is well proven, all the better. A new tool has a lot to measure up to. It has to show some points of superiority in attaining the practical goal.
Means first is looking at the tool as the interesting part. That produces quite the opposite of the conservative ends-first attitude. The coolness factor of a new or different gun is important in weapon selection and badassedness counts for a lot.
In practice we all harbor a little of both views, but the balance in most guys here is toward the ends-first, practical and proven.
How, then, shall I explain Oolong's endwise flip from a very new gun, the UTAS, that looks like a prop from a sci fi movie, to a very old one, the 1887, that looks like a prop from a western? I think the answer here is that either is cool because both are different, a bit contrarian, and not what most are using.
Note, in the video below, that you do not need to be young to be taken with the cool factor of an unusual gun.
danez71
Member
I just went through his posts. He's only started and posted a few threads.
Threads are titled:
Shotgun Questions
Custom glocks and where to get them
Importing Luger Handgun question
Machinegun questions
Questions about modern rifles
Cant decide on pistol
They all seem to follow a strange pattern and he tends to rarely answer questions that any one asks him.
Some noteworthy statements he's made.
In the machine gun thread he claims to have HK's registered as machine guns.
In the 'Cant decide on pistol thread' he claims 'i decided to look into getting a pistol with my AR'
In the Modern Rifles thread he claims ', this will be the first gun i own and i dont want a piece of junk'
In the Custom glocks thread he says "I need the glock to be competition accurate, not for competition but because i have standards." and also says "My goal is to be able to hit a fly's wings at 50 yards."
In the 'modern rifles' thread he also claims to be 51.
In this thread he said in the OP 'in prep for buying my own first gun instead of borrowing my grandfather's'.
Something isn't right.
1 re read the modern rifles, I'm quoting someone who is right above me genius
2 I initially wanted a ar and a 1911 but because I can never own a epic Turnbull ar and 1911 I've decided to go in the opposite direction
3 this thread specifically makes me want to go back into the Turnbull direction
4 I don't believe I ever said I own a Hk mg so that's two you've messed up dingus wanna go 3 for 3 or are you done with making a ass of yourself pretending to be Caruso?
The Luger thing was because I'm pa Dutch and I figure if the 1911 is still worth it then the Luger is probably still good too, I recanted this assessment.
2 I initially wanted a ar and a 1911 but because I can never own a epic Turnbull ar and 1911 I've decided to go in the opposite direction
3 this thread specifically makes me want to go back into the Turnbull direction
4 I don't believe I ever said I own a Hk mg so that's two you've messed up dingus wanna go 3 for 3 or are you done with making a ass of yourself pretending to be Caruso?
The Luger thing was because I'm pa Dutch and I figure if the 1911 is still worth it then the Luger is probably still good too, I recanted this assessment.
Panzerschwein
member
Hi Oolong, don't pass up some of the less expensive 1911s. They can be quite nice. Good luck on your M1887 shotgun, those look very cool. I'd like to have one some day in coach gun format. They look very fun.
Kendal Black
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I suppose, Oolong, that if we are not your cup of tea, you should remember that the endless advice has been to carry a gun that works. Consider in exactly what way that is bad advice.
danez71
Member
Oolong, you wrote the stuff, not me.
It still doesnt explain the other inconsistant statement's you made.
Dingus...? Ass....?
Childish name calling will get you nowhere except to expose your character and maybe a 'time out' from the site.
I suggest you stick with borowing your grampa's shotgun.
It still doesnt explain the other inconsistant statement's you made.
Dingus...? Ass....?
Childish name calling will get you nowhere except to expose your character and maybe a 'time out' from the site.
I suggest you stick with borowing your grampa's shotgun.
HAHA! 108 posts of back and forth? You guys sure have a lot of patience in your attempts to be helpful. Reminds me of those threads that justin22885 used to post and people would chase him around for page after page while he changed his position time after time, pretending to know what he was talking about, or have some expertise, or know almost EXACTLY what he wanted but just couldn't quiiiiite make up his mind on some little detail or quandary, and needed some expert help. Then, when the experts showed up with sound advice, he had all sorts reasoning why their advice was wrong for his special case, his principles and preferences. Then he'd post another similar type question and the chase would start all over again. LOL
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SwaneeSR
Member
I reached the conclusion that the OP would not take yes for an answer back before post #40.
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grampajack
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I would love to but i still cant find a new production 1887 made in the US.
Kendal Black
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First of all, this was a great thread for passing the time at work.
Next, and I could be wrong here but what is your experience with these firearms? Both the uts-15 and the model 1887 are fairly exotic firearms. Now I keep coming back to the fact that these have both been featured in a popular videogame series (call of duty).
Now if you're taking a liking to these firearms due to a game or popular media format, I would like to say that that's not a bad way to start. I would like to caution heavily on the idea of getting a firearm based solely off of that. I remember when I was younger I absolutely needed a Russian DP 28 from an old game I used to play, but that a different story for a different day.
A gun should be based heavily on how is feels in your hands, and how it feels for you to shoot(buying an uncomfortable gun will no be a pleasing experience, and you probably won't take it out to shoot much, even if it's a for fun gun). There are a few other key features that might be good to look at too (reliability, cost, coolness, and aftermarket support)
I'm not going to harp on your choices for firearms OP, I just figured I'd ask about the motivation to pick them in particular.
One last thing to consider; once you set your goal for which gun you want, how long will it take you to reach said goal. You said you have a pretty entry level job, and you are paying your rent like everyone else in your household. That means you'll need to think about tailoring your choice to something that is easy to afford and not going to be a headache to own or saving up nand going without a few pleasures in life, you'll be able buy that gun you dreamed of. Either way, just a thought.
Next, and I could be wrong here but what is your experience with these firearms? Both the uts-15 and the model 1887 are fairly exotic firearms. Now I keep coming back to the fact that these have both been featured in a popular videogame series (call of duty).
Now if you're taking a liking to these firearms due to a game or popular media format, I would like to say that that's not a bad way to start. I would like to caution heavily on the idea of getting a firearm based solely off of that. I remember when I was younger I absolutely needed a Russian DP 28 from an old game I used to play, but that a different story for a different day.
A gun should be based heavily on how is feels in your hands, and how it feels for you to shoot(buying an uncomfortable gun will no be a pleasing experience, and you probably won't take it out to shoot much, even if it's a for fun gun). There are a few other key features that might be good to look at too (reliability, cost, coolness, and aftermarket support)
I'm not going to harp on your choices for firearms OP, I just figured I'd ask about the motivation to pick them in particular.
One last thing to consider; once you set your goal for which gun you want, how long will it take you to reach said goal. You said you have a pretty entry level job, and you are paying your rent like everyone else in your household. That means you'll need to think about tailoring your choice to something that is easy to afford and not going to be a headache to own or saving up nand going without a few pleasures in life, you'll be able buy that gun you dreamed of. Either way, just a thought.
Kendal Black
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Bzzzzzzt. Look into one handed drills with the pump shotgun. They are all over YouTube. Not best of all worlds but it beats the hell out of Rule Two violations trying to be Arnold John Wayne Scwharzinerminator. Do not twirl a shotgun: That is for movies.
Here is an abstract of what you need to know about a gun before you even go near one again:
http://shootery.blogspot.com/2013/06/gun-safetys-four-rules-dont-end-up-in.html
grampajack
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Oh dear, I'm about to fall out of my chair.
Although something tells me oolong might be having some fun at our expense...
Although something tells me oolong might be having some fun at our expense...
grampajack
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I think what's unsettling us the most is you seem to still be thinking of this shotgun as something for some practical application. In one regard, it sounds like you understand these are all toys, but then you say things like this that give the distinct impression you're planning on this being for more than a toy. Why would you care about one handed drills unless you were planning on fighting with it? I've never seen anyone learn one handed drills just for the fun of it, and I would argue that level of training is way, way beyond most people. If you've got the fundamentals down in your sleep, then have at it, but the only people likely to need, or even be able to use, such training would be tier one SOF, and even then the proverbial scheisse would have to hit the fan pretty hard. We're talking something along the lines of the Marcus Luttrell incident.
Kendal Black
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Didn't seem like you were quite sold in the first place...
Semi-auto really is less of a hassle in that mode of operation.
Article on running your gun one-handed: https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2011/5/27/one-handed-shotgun-manipulation/
An important point the article raises is to use snap caps (dummy cartridges) for this, since there are dangers involved... Or better yet, do what Jack says and just forget it. Forget, also--no, forget especially--charging a lever action Terminator-style!
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SwaneeSR
Member
Deleted because this is THR. Self corrected my error.
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Kendal Black
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The SKO's stand a good chance of being excellent guns, though I really am speaking too soon, in that these brand new guns aren't in the public's hands yet for the inevitable wringing out.
Keep us informed as to how that goes!
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