Shotguns and Overpenetration of Lethal Ammunition

[chuckusaret]

I commend all of you for having a plan. Thats what it takes plus run thru your plan at least monthly with the family.

 

[Jeff White]

I have to question the validity of the whole over penetration issue. The average shooting is less then 3 rounds. I think a lot of people have this vision of their house looking like John Woo filmed his latest action movie there.

I live in a frame house with a brick veneer on the front wall and vinyl siding on the other three outside wall. The interior walls are standard 5/8 sheet rock over 2x4 studs. The outside walls are well insulated.

My home defense weapon is my Colt R6920 loaded with M193 ball. I'm not at all worried about shooting someone accidentally through a wall. I would have no qualms about using a shotgun with 00 buck either. I've patterned the shotguns that I would be using if for some reason I had to, and neither one of them will throw a stray shot off of a man sized target at the longest range I would shoot in the house.

Have a plan. Part of that plan should be knowing how your shotgun patterns your defensive ammunition.

There is no way I'd give up the penetration necessary to make a disabling hit by using birdshot.

 

[shoey]

My 12 holds 5 rounds of 00 right now, because I happen to have it. When its gone, I will go back to #4 or #5 birdshot. Why?

Because at 15 feet, a pattern doesnt open up much. The bad guy will be getting hit, effectively, with 1 and 1/8 ounce of lead at 1200 fps in a softball sized portion of his body. If the first shot doesnt put him down or stop the attack ,the second almost surely will. People dont tend to continue a course of action that turned a good portion of their chest into hamburger meat.

Knowing your gun is a good thing, but just because I can hit a target on a range on the first shot, every time with my 00 buck pattern or with slugs doesnt mean I can do it in a high stress situation. I'd rather protect against shooting a neighbor by switching to a load that will likely be just as effective for its intended use.

Now if I were in a rural area? Buck in the house always, with slugs on hand to deal with something going on outside...

 

[sm]

Most folks would be better off taking that $1000k or more they have in kewl toys, and:
- buying a simple , good used .38spl revolver , loaded with standard pressure 158 gr LSWC,
- good used , bone stock shotgun even with <gasp> stock, fixed choke 26" ( Sk or IC,) or 28" (mod) longer barrel, loaded with 2 3/4" nine pellet 00 buck.

The rest of the damn money should be spent on lessons on how to use the guns, and ammo.

And...Preventative stuff to not look like prey in the first place, and "Offensive" measures in the second.
When evil shows, one goes into a "offensive" mode in defending.

Hey, $20 for a old dresser drawer, needing some attention from a yard sale, can become one helluva a "weapon" in the home/business.
Screw the tactical bull chip! That dresser positioned can be a backstop, or cover - not concealment, cover.

Baby Monitors are not just for babies.
Have a plan.
a. Family comes in due to work schedule after others are in bed. Have codewords.
Those asleep, might wake up when the spouse comes in from working until midnight, or returning from being called in, as they take call.

Who cares if you fell like an idiot, using a codeword when you arrive, and the folks asleep, stay asleep.
You also have a codeword that means you were forced into the house and have a gun at your head.
The baby monitor, can assist others in the structure as to what is going on.

b. Three C cell Mag-Lights fit smaller hands better. I don't give a rip about a fancy smancy light that can reach the moon.
These Mag-Lights can be about the home/business. Threats do include fire, power outtages with weather...and these lights in various places might just accidentally find a head, or knee cap, to keep evil from doing what evil is doing.

c. Darkness is a friend, to both bad guys and good guys. Instead of another silly arse piece of useless crap bolted onto a shotgun, get a switch set up, that illuminates where a threat might be.
"Light 'em up".
One second evil was using darkness, the next they are illuminated and you have the advantage.

Just a simple wiring job...
d, Install Emergency lighting, so if the BGs pull the switch on the box outside, or cuts it with phone lines, the Emergency lights come on.

Great, just great, the BG cut your lights and now the damn house/business is lit up.
Bad guys might choose...to not even attempt anymore evil. There are easier prey elsewhere.


Me?
Oh my landlord will get a kick out this...
I prefer slugs, when I use a shotgun.
My only shotgun is a Youth, 20 bore single shot.
Darn gun is bone stock, and total length is 36". The plain barrel is 22", with a front bead, and choked modified.

I have <chuckle> "strategically" placed an old washing machine in the garage.
So if even comes to my bedroom and is standing where they will be...HotPoint backstop.
I am not sure if it still had water in the thing, but I do know when it was below freezing, I had a washing machine tub with an ice block in it.

If I make it to the garage, which I can from my bedroom, and evil takes chase...
Evil is going to trip and break their neck. This too is all "strategically" laid out.
Put it this way "that first step is a doozie" applies to my garage.

You know, I would have to look, but I think the 9mm somewhere around here has FMJ in it.
They were handy...

Granted I would be ticked if my new set of pots and pans took a bullet/slug , but I figger the landlord would not get too upset if I shot that breakfast bar cabinet, and continued on to the stove and fridge.
I don't plan on missing though...

Plus I can stand with my shotgun in hand, and the muzzle not touch the floor and you cannot tell I have that gun in my hand, even during daylight, much less low light, or dark.


I have done my share of actual testing of various media for back stops and shooting lanes. It was my business to know, being in a hi-risk setting.
I choose slugs and hardball, for me, because some of the media I and mine employed were one way mirrors and mesh metal decorative work.
Slugs and hardball deflect less.

I have had installed glass bricks, for cover. Sure they looked nice, added something to the decor, still these were actually shot with 12 ga slugs and 30-06 rounds to Investigate & Verify before being a part of the structure.

Over penetration , I know about as well.
I had a neighbor once, that was a total jerk. Somehow he got on the Police Force.
He would come home, get drunk, crank up his music, a ,movie , or video games/ or all of these.
He decided to get his issued Glock and ...he missed that TV at 3 feet, and sent .40cals through the walls.
Rookie, drunk out of his gourd, and by golly, he was going to beat that video game.
His living room, butted up against my bedroom.


First shot, I was on the floor and behind cover.
I do mean "cover".
Bullets went toward the outside wall, which is typical apt stuff with drywall, and some siding.
Nary a .40 cal did not penetrate that outside wall. One did shatter the patio glass, and the bullet was found on the balcony.

Now the rounds were going away from me...
His apt, set up, down his hall and bedroom, butted up to the living room of the apt on the other side.
Who knows, maybe after missing the TV, and making a mess in his living room, he decided to shoot down his hall, and into his bedroom.
His bed, stopped rounds. Some rounds made it through that wall...and the bookshelf, I had assisted a neighbor with for shooting lanes, and cover, had those bullets stopped by that bookshelf, and books.

Railroad Salvage bookshelf. I think she gave $25 for it. She fixed it up. Used bricks down low, with some free paper back novels in front. Yard sale, lady said she could have all those used books.
Library sale at a College, and she bought some heavy textbooks. Heck if she had waited a week, some of the Depts would have given her some old heavy textbooks.

Cop, and come to find out he had a twin brother, did not stay cops. New Rookies and ...it was deemed they were not cut out to do Police work.

That bookshelf of that neighbor?
WE shot a replica of it, and some other things we did for her apt.
She knew, and had plans.

I got a new neighbor after the Cop moved.
A young lady.
I had the firewall against my far wall. ( I had seen these apts being built, so I had an inside track on how they were built).

Upon my suggestion, this new girl neighbor had the lock changed.
She is the one, some guy was waiting in her apt after she came home from a late shift.
He used a Master Key, as maintance and exterminators and others are given by Apt mangagers.
I have warned about this ...
Apt Mgmt changed locks all right, just a Master Key negates a new lock.
We cured that problem after her incident...
She had not been in very long when this happened.

So the neighbor , another girl, with the bookshelf added her to our "plans".
Got her fixed up shooting lanes, ( and goofed up her interior decorating ideas... putting "that" , 'there".).

Low Tech...
Well the neighbor on the other side of her, and I had bought two lamps, marked down at K mart - Two for $7, and some outdoor extension cord.
We plugged in the cord to a receptacle, and ran the cord outside our exterior, on the back. Just a matter of flipping a switch, and a lamp would come on in our respective apts.

Trouble signal.
WE added the gal between us, to this trouble light signal.
Compressed Air Horn , and those inexpensive emergency flashlights, that are plugged in, but come on when the power is out.

There was enough ambient light at night, still go ahead, hit the box outside and shut off the power, and phones.
We owned you.
All 3 of us had shotguns, loaded with slugs too.

 

[LightningCrash]

LC,

It's just me, but I'd not take off the safety until an instant before I pulled the trigger. And I'd be issuing verbal challenges loudly (they'd have to be loud, to be heard of the bellowing of the two Filas) as long as possible before I did that as well.

I have a yappy dog that would be going nuts during this procedure, as well.
My bedroom door is locked at night, so anyone who gets through it has to either unlock it or kick it open. Maybe I'll go to Lowe's and hang a solid core door with a deadbolting door handle (Has a door catch that doubles as a deadbolt throw).
Good point on the verbal challenges, I want them to leave ex post haste.
Honestly I think it's more likely for a drunk person to mistake my apartment for their own than for someone to enter for burglary.
(There's nothing in GIS for my apartment complex at all, aside from roomie/ex/wife squabbles, and it's been here 20 years or so.)