shotshell reloading costs, a [I]QUICK [/I] rundown...

[HSMITH]

The post to follow is copied from another board and was authored by me, it is in responce to a fella wondering if it was worthwhile to load. I banged out some quick calculations, they ARE in the ballpark but are not law. Keep in mind that substantial savings above and beyond the savings below can be had with smart shopping and bulk purchases. Hope this helps someone that is thinking about reloading...

You can easily beat all but the cheapest garbage shells when they are on closeouts.
Figure the cost of 2500 rounds.

Powder@20grainsX2500=50K/7000= 7.14 pounds.

[email protected]=2812.5/16= 175.8 pounds

Wads@$55 per case/2= $22.50

Primers at $100 per sleeve /2= $50.

Hulls you have, otherwise @.04cX2500 =$40

More math says that the shot in 25 pound bags will cost $14 per bag, we need 7 bags so it will be $98. Powder comes in 1, 4 and 8 pounders, and 8 pound can is cheapest and will cost $95.

95 powder
98 shot
22.50 wads
50 primers
-------------------
265.5 total for 2500 rounds.

2500/250=10 cases. 10 cases/$265.5=$26.50 per case or $2.65 per box.

Hulls, you need some? Ok, AA hulls last 8 times easily, so .04c each X 1000= $40. 8000 loads possible for the hulls/$40=.005c each. .005c X 25=12.5c or 13 cents per box. 13 cents added to $2.65 makes $2.78 per box.

Wal Mart sells Federals for $16 per 100, or $4 per box, making your loads of PREMIUM components cheaper by at least $1.22 per box.

Now the math I did is for smaller lots of components, and using typical prices. If you buy components for 10,000 shells (or go in with a couple guys) the price drops further. I am loading the equivalent of AA Handicaps for $2.30 per box, becuase I bought larger quantities. You can shop around and get better prices than I used also.

You too will learn that one ounce of shot is more than you need for 99% of clay targets, and that cuts the cost by 5% or so.

Hope this helps.

Reclaim shot (picked up on the range) is quite scary around here, I have not used it, but it is down to like $7 per bag.....

End of old post.

Any comments, corrections or additions?

 

[45auto]

Good study,

I see new shells, of various makes and quality(?) for as little as $31.00 per flat, $3.10 per box.
The difference between the two is closer than I ever remember.
I see I lot more people shoot new shells than ever before!

But, and it's a big one, you have to buy the new shells in quantity and often the brands can vary. In stock, out of stock. How does one really now the "quality" of some of these "no-name" shells?
Estate has been bought out by Federal. Manufacturers can change componants at will, particulary overseas companies.

Reloading of high quality componants gives you consistant shell performance at a cheaper price, available whenever you take the little time to reload. If you shoot a lot, even $.40-50 a box adds up quickly.

Long way to say reloading is still the best way to go-IMHO.

 

[Traveler]

Factor in the oppurtunity cost of time spent making all those purchases, the time spent cleaning and preparing the hulls, the time spent setting up the reloading operation, and the time spent in actually reloading. You also need to factor in anything of value spent in the manufacturing process. That includes fuel, electricity, and anything consumed during the process.

That will give you true cost.

Let's say it takes you one hour to go to the store and get all the stuff you need. Then you take another hour to get everything organized and laid out to start work. Then you spend an hour reloading 400 rounds. (Most people won't load near that many in an hour, but it's a good round number to paly with.) If you make $25/hour those three hours of work factor in another $75.

Now just that $75 takes the total of 400 rounds up another $4.69/box. Factor in the cost of all the other incedental expenses and you end up pay over $5/box for the reloads before you even factor in the cost of the components.

Now let's look at the numbers used in the previous post.

We're going to load 2500 rounds at a COMPONENT cost of $2.78/box. If we use a rate of 400/hour for our time, and limit the oppurtunity cost of accquisition of supplies and preparation to only one hour we come up with a total time of 6.25 hours. That amount of time has a value of $206.25, which when divided by the number of boxes of reloads gives us a cost of $2.06/box. Added to the $2.78/box for components we get a value of $4.84/box, or $0.84 more than the cost of new factory ammunition.

Ah ha, you say. "I only make $10/hour. That would cut my cost to only $0.63 per box in labor. I still save money." Yes, you do. You save $0.59/box (over the cost of new, factory ammo). But remember, we have not factored in any of the other costs involved. You'll find that the incedentals will quickly eat into the cost of your profit.

But let's say that they don't. You spend your 6.25 hours and reload 2500 rounds to save a grand total of $59.00. You have just worked for a whopping $9.44/hour. You could have gone to work and used the money earned to buy new ammo, and made a profit.

Now not only did we pay more for the privilege of loading our own ammo, we also spent the better part of our our weekend engaged in this exercise. I don't know about you, but my free days are precious, and worth more than the hourly wage I make.
I am not going to waste my time reloading while the actual (true) cost of factory ammo is so low.

 

[HSMITH]

Traveler, while your point is very valid I disagree with you. I was going to the sporting goods store anyway for a couple ____ and an XXXXXXX so the time spend buying components is zero. Prep time for a loading session of 2000+ rounds is less than 10 minutes, basically carry the supplies in from the truck. Loading rate for me averages 600 per hour, and I am not the worlds greatest loader, anyone can load 600 an hour on my press. The incidental costs for me are very near zero aside from the labor time of pulling the handle. I DONATE my time to myself, knowing that a couple hours of labor will permit me many more hours of shooting enjoyment later for THE SAME TOTAL OUTLAY of money. Money out of pocket is the key factor for a ton of guys out there.

My little breakdown is aimed at the guy that wants to shoot more and can't justify the expenditure, not someone that simply buys another case of shells and goes shooting.

I also submit that if we were to head off to the pattern board with your low cost commercial shells and my reloads that a very obvious conclusion would be made, my shells are significantly more consistent. Is the quality of your shells going to cost you any targets? Depends on how good you are and how much you shoot. Most guys never know what the true performance of their ammo is, they just shoot it up hoping it works well....... I prefer to know my ammo is as good as I can get.

Keep in mind that I am not flaming, I am presenting my reasoning for reloading in response to yours. The component costs of reloading in the original post hold true regardless of anyones' point of view.

 

[Traveler]

HSMITH

I do understand your point of view, but to me it is false economy. Time always has value. The time spent, even if combined with other tasks, must be assigned to the actual job. The incidental costs also must be aportioned where they belong. A portion of the fuel cost (for instance) does belong to the act of buying supplies, even if you were going for some other reason.

Most people have a limited number of hours they can spend on their hobbies. In my case (for example) that's about 4 hours a week (call it a donation if you want). In that time I must get to the range, buy any needed supplies and equipment, shoot, and perform any needed maintenance (cleaning, etc). I could use a portion of that time to reload. However it would be at the cost of some other part of my hobby. Obviously I cannot reduce the time spent in travel, needed purchases, or maintenance without incuring greater risks. I could limit my actual shooting time, but that is worth more to me than any savings I would realize by reloading.

Reloading makes since when 1) time is no longer required for income, 2) income is so low that the shooter can actually profit from it (in which case I suggest you put the guns away and get to school), or 3) the product from the time spent is measurably superior (to the point where the cost to purchase such an item makes point 2 valid).

As to the quality of ammunition...

I currently purchase either Winchester AA's or Remington STS for $4.50/box. I find these to be extremely consistant, and they pattern very well in my guns. Different guns prefer different loads, but I do not feel that it is the fault of either the gun or the ammunition when I miss a bird.

And, unlike EVERY reloader I have shot with in the past 30 years, I have never missed a bird due to a poor load. Nor have I ever delayed a round to take care of a stuck wad, dealt with split hulls, thrown too heavy or light a charge, or damaged my gun with the ammo I fed it. All of which I have seen with regularity. (And all of which must be added to the cost of reloading).

My point is pretty simple. Time spent reloading takes away from time spent shooting.

 

[boing]

I consider reloading as time spent involved with shooting, not missing out.

And I'd certainly rather break even cost-wise by spending hours reloading, than spending (even more) hours at work.

But on a strictly monetary (or equivalent) basis, I guess those things may not enter into the analysis for some people.

 

[HSMITH]

Traveler, I see your point and you see mine, we don't agree and probably won't ever on this subject. That is fine by me and surely is by you as well, you seem to be a level headed sort. To agree to disagree is not a bad end IMO.

You are right that the AA is good ammo, as is the STS, that is what I duplicate exactly for a little under $2.30 per box......

I have never had a blooper/stuck wad, overcharge or undercharge, or damaged a gun. I have loaded well over 100K rounds in the last 10 years, so it is not like I have been lucky so far........

I have had a misfire with factory ammo..........

What the heck do you do that your time is so tightly budgeted?

I make plenty of money to shoot factory ammo these days, but I prefer not too. There is some satisfaction in loading your own when you run the targets, not to mention that in 20 minutes before work or before bed I can crank off the shells for 8 rounds of trap or skeet easily, that is all the shooting I do a week anymore anyway on a good week. I have several hours per week of time that I can take to do whatever I want, so it is not crimping my style or taking away from something else I should be doing. When the day comes that I have more money than time I need to do some serious reflecting on where I am and where I am headed, but that is just my view.......

Good conversation, I appreciate it.

 

[PJR]

I don't load because of the money saved. I can afford to shoot factory if I so choose and often do. But loading your own ammunition is part of the hobby. It permits me to develop loads that suit the purpose. For example, I load a low pressure 7/8s ounce 12 gauge for clay practice in my game gun. It's not available at any gun store.

In the course of loading well in excess of a hundred thousand shotgun loads I have had precisely 3 blooper loads very early in my career. I've have 6 loads with bad primers (Winchester AAs) and several factory loads that failed to ignite. My failure rate is far less than the factory.

There are many people who can't afford to buy factory, for whom reloading is a way for them to shoot more and enjoy the hobby. A recommendation for them to "put the guns away and go to school" is insulting to people for whom saving a couple of dollars on a box of shells is important to them financially.

Paul

 

[riverdog]

Some folks are retired and have lots of time at $0.00 per hour

One issue that hasn't been brought up is real-estate to set-up a reloading operation. I couldn't do it right now if I wanted -- just another reason to get a bigger garage. I may start reloading later, but for now I'll stay with factory.

Traveler, where are you getting AA's for $4.50?

 

[sm]

HSMITH

Good post.
Agree, the only 'bad rounds' I've had were with factory loads. I always competed with my reloads. Excellent point about the pattern board.

I can see the once a year shooter using new 'discount rds', or the guy just testing the waters. IME the new shooter quickly started buying the AA or STS new target loads to build up his supply of hulls...one time use for 'bargain' hull vs. 8+ reloads with a target load. Again IME often the new guy was better off buying the single stage Mec ( new or used) and buying used hulls...heck ...how many times have we shooters given the new guy hulls to get started.

How many times have we set a new guy up with the makings and sat outside and taught him the nuances of his reloader. I have, I didn't even shoot that day...but the paybacks were greater for the father and son that day in savings so they could shoot more ...and yeah I got something out of it too.

"To keep something...give it away..."

 

[JohnRov]

Factoring in your hourly wage only applies if you are reloading INSTEAD of working.

 

[ralphtt]

Cost of reloading press . . . ??

How about factoring in the cost of the press that averages 600 rounds per hour?

 

[JohnRov]

If you reload enough, you recover the cost. MEC 9000 is about $300. If you are saving $2/box you have paid for it in 150 boxes, which is about one season of shooting for me.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Cost here is about $2.80 a box for top line components.

I buy them at the range I shoot at, so there's no travel time.

Hulls are free, thanks to the Hull Elf.

A box takes 10-12 minutes on my little MEC 600 Jr. I load up 100 shells in an hour just doing it during the commercials in an hour of TV viewing. IOW, no value placed on my time.

And, with Claybuster wads, Clays powder, top quality shot and Winchester 209 primers, I can make a load equalled only by the best(and least cheap) of the factory stuff.

I can even tweak a load for the mission, like the singles load that's been busting lots of trap targets for me lately.

 

[TaxPhd]

Opportunity Cost of time spent reloading (at your hourly rate), as was pointed out, is only relevant if the time spent reloading is time taken away from billable work. If one were to have such a small amount of free time for hobbies (4 hours a week - Good God, man! You are either making way too much money, or you need a different job!), then reloading might not make sense. Otherwise, there are few reasons not to.

"The incidental costs also must be aportioned where they belong. A portion of the fuel cost (for instance) does belong to the act of buying supplies, even if you were going for some other reason."

Not true. If you are going to the sporting goods store, say, to buy your daughter a new set of soccer cleats, the marginal cost of fuel, wear and tear on the car, etc. is exactly zero. Allocating fixed costs is probably one of the most difficult cost accounting procedures, and the one most frequently done incorrectly.

Cost of equipment is important. As previously pointed out, payback period is probably the best method for this. Trying to allocate the cost on a per shell basis would be an incorrect analysis.

Buy your components in bulk, pay off your reloader, and then enjoy high quality shells at $2.25/box compared to $4.50-5.00/box.

 

[Poodleshooter]

Just to add a little variety to the shell types mentioned, try finding 1-1/8oz & 1-1/4oz heavy field loads, duplex shot loads, slugs or buckshot for $3 per 25. The additional cost of powder and shot for specialty loads assembled using common components (Fed/Rem/Win wads, home cast slugs and buckshot) are marginal compared to the premium placed on factory loads of that type.
As for opportunity costs, I'd hate to see my costs for reading a 400 page novel or watching a movie!

 

[TrapperReady]

I picked up a used MEC 9000G for $150. I then made a bulk purchase of components for 5000 shells. I had already saved around 3000 STS hulls and 2000 AA hulls, so that was already paid for. An extremely sturdy reloading bench cost roughly $40 in materials and 2 hours to build.

Right now, between my wife and I, we are shooting a about 300-400 shells per week. I can reload that amount in roughly an hour. That's almost exactly how much time it takes me to get in the car, drive to one of several sporting goods stores, buy a case or two and drive home.

BTW, as Poodleshooter alluded to, the price difference may be a couple bucks a box for target loads. The difference for premium field loads is more in the $8-10 range.

In thousands of rounds loaded, I've had one squib. That's not a bad trade-off for having the flexibility of loading rounds exactly how I want. It's not a problem if the local store only sells STS Light Target loads in #7.5 and #8, but I want #8.5. I can load whatever I want. If I want to experiment with a very light load (like 7/8 oz 12ga. loads) I don't have to listen to the Salesgoob say "Whatinhellyouwantthatfer?".

Personally, I consider reloading part of the hobby. An enjoyable part at that. It's a bonus that I save some money. Cheaper ammo also makes for more practice.