Well, this is dissilusioning (reloads vs. commercial pricing)

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I've read here and on other sites how, *at the moment* it really doesn't make financial sense to reload shotshells, what with the price of standard/value pack shells or flats of 10 boxes....

I'm a metallic cartridge reloader, reload primarily .45 ACP and .45 Colt, and for those cartridges, it *does* make financial sense for me to reload

I've been figuring out costs on reloading for 12 and 20 gauge, starting with 20, as it's my current favorite gun, but when I went to one of the online cost calculators, I was dismayed when I plugged in the numbers...

(prices for components from my local gun store, all prices approximated)

Wads; $25 for 250
Shot; $35 for 25 lbs
Powder; $16 for 1 LB (just to start off and keep costs down)
Primers; $35 for 1000

trying to recreate the Winchester WinLite loads, 7/8 oz shot and around 13 grains of powder, the price per box was around $6.00, a decent savings over the $10/box KTP sells them for, things looked good at first, but then, just for S&G, I plugged in the approx. settings for the 2.5 dram equivalent Federal general purpose shells

17 grains powder, 7/8 oz shot roughly cost about $6.15 per box, KTP sells the general purpose shells for $6-7 per box (right now they're on sale for around $6/box), they sell flats of 10 for about $60....

so, for general purpose shells, it's not much cheaper than reloading my empties to simply buy a flat every other week (my second part time job pays me about $70 for one day of work)

Don't get me wrong, I'm still gonna' learn to reload and keep my eyes open for a good used 12 Ga press as well, reloading's an important skill to have, especially when the price of ammo inevitably goes up again, i'm just not in *as* much of a rush to get into reloading, I might buy primers one week, a bag of shot a bit later, wads a couple weeks later, powder a few weeks after that, interspersed between stocking up on flats of 12 and 20 gauge, and just stock them in the back of my ammo/reloading stash for when I need them and shoot the commercial ammo for now

I was looking forward to saving some real money here, but looks like that's not the case at the moment, shotshell reloading (and reloading in general) are good skills to have, but at the moment, any money saved will be illusory

Darnit, I was looking forward to saving money and shooting more, just like with my .45's...
 
First off your wad prices are off by over double, even from Gander. Even at overpriced Gander Mountain, wads are $15/500

Wads run $85/5000, powder runs $96/8#, Nobel primers runs $116/5000, shot can run $28/25#......I can reload 3/4oz loads in Gun Club hulls for $3.07/box of 25
 
Hmm, looks like I'll have to check prices at my LGS again, I may be off pricewise, at least this tells me that I really should order my components online rather than through my LGS, thanks for the update, oneounceload :)
 
My costs are about the same as oneounceload's, with the exception of the shot. We made a large purchase and got our shot for $21.00 a bag about a year ago. We just priced it again and it's up to $24.00 a bag. We're buying directly from the manufacturer, though. There is a company just north of us that's selling reclaimed shot for $19.00 a bag, and I've used some of it for Cowboy Action Shooting. It works great for that, but I don't know that I'd want to use for trap, skeet or sporting clays. They screen it, tumble and graphite it, and make it look new, except for the dented shot......

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
I noticed a few years ago that the real savings and advantage came when you wanted to reload heavy shot for water foul. But that if you were going to reload for less than the cheapo Walmart value 100 pack you had to buy in bulk.

Even though I have had some issues with my crimping I have noticed that the loads I make do perform better than the value pack ones I buy. They have just enough punch that if I bought slightly bigger shot I could pheasant hunt with them but they are not so harsh that I could not shoot clays all day with them.
 
I have never found it economical to reload "plinking" rounds. I do much better when reloading to remington "long range express" or equal. Clay rounds just are not worth the time. IMHO
 
Too many people focus on the cost alone and not the value, ie the cost vs performance.

Even if your cost is the same as a store ammo purchase, your ammo is custom tailored to the load your gun shoots the best. That, sir is why I load my own shotgun ammo- cost be damned.

Winchester, Nobel, Rio, Federal, cannot load ammo that patterns well in your shotgun. You can.
 
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"...trying to recreate the Winchester WinLite loads..." You reload .45 ACP ammo to recreate factory ammo? Reloading for shotgun isn't about cost any more than it is for .45ammo. It's about tailoring the ammo for the shotgun, just like it is for a rifle or handgun.
"...keep my eyes open for a good used 12 Ga press..." New shotgun reloading kit isn't anywhere near the cost of rifle/handgun kit. For example, Cabela's wants $150.99 - $164.99 for a MEC 600 Jr. Mark 5 Reloader that'll do it all. A Lee Load-All runs $60.
 
Here's what I buy:

200 lbs Lawrence Magnum Lead Shot #8 Shot $348
10 lbs Alliant Unique Powder $137
3,000 Shotshell Primers $102
3,000 Winchester WT12 Wads $74
500 Once-fired Winchester AA Hulls $30
Shipping and Hazmat Fees $50

Total $741 or $6.18 per box equivalent.

The cheapest factory ammo I've found is Remington Gun Club Target at $6.50 per box while Winchester AA is $9.00 per box. So, I save a little.

As RhinoDefense mentioned, the real value in reloading shotshells is custom loads :D

I highly recommend MEC. I bought an Sizemaster for $200. It's easy to use, fast, and high quality. Accessories are reasonably price. For example, a 1 oz. charge bar costs around $12.

Good luck!
 
Mac - MY prices I listed are for components I buy through my gun club - the company they buy targets from delivers everything on their own truck - we save hazmat and shipping and the club markup is minimal

Georgia - I don't how you buy Alliant 10# at a time, unless you're buying 1# packages - it comes in 8# jugs for about that price
Hulls should be free - either from factory ammo you fired, or from range scrounging
primers and wads, when bought by the sleeve/case respectively, come in lots of 5,000 - not 3000
348 for 300# is like buying shot at $43.50/bag - there are a LOT of cheaper places

I have never found it economical to reload "plinking" rounds. I do much better when reloading to remington "long range express" or equal. Clay rounds just are not worth the time. IMHO
Click to expand...

THAT would depend on how much clay shooting you're doing - if it is only a few warmups in the back 40- you are correct, buy the wally world promo packs. If, however, you shoot 10-15,000 rounds a year, then saving 3-5 per box adds up to a lot of extra targets for the same money. I reload for cost savings but also because I can load what is not available - a 12 gauge 3/4 oz load - like shooting a 28 in a 12 gauge - kills targets just fine, saves my shoulder, and it allows me to get over 530 rounds from 1 bag of shot. A 1oz. load gives you 400/bag - that's 5 extra boxes of ammo from the same bag - it starts to add up over the course of a year
 
reloading for custom loads is what it is all about. I don't shoot a ton of clay so reloading clay is clearly not worth my time. I do a lot of shotgun hunting and yes that is what I load the most. There is a certain satisfaction in making a load that will allow the use of a 870 police riot gun on long range dove shots:)
I reload 12, 20 and 410 currently and soon will be reloading 28g. I have reloaded 12 for many years and have found it very useful to have several presses. I have a Pacific-hornady set up for production 12ga a mec 600 set up for my hi brass 12ga a mec 600 for 2 1/2 410 a mec 9000 for my 410 3" and a mec 600 for my 20ga. I am more than likely going to get another mec 9000 when I get a 28ga press. I am just shooting factory shells currently until my stash gets large enough to start loading.
 
Good job, doing your research BEFORE you buy!

My 12 Gauge reloader has been in the closet for a long time. I just bought 10 flats (2500 rounds) of 1 oz. Kent target loads for $480.

Now if I ever break down and get a 28 Gauge, I'm going to reload for that, definitely. But 12 Gauge doesn't pay unless you value your time at pennies per hour. Furthermore, with a new puppy to chase around right now, if I had to load my own, I'd never shoot.

If you order components in bulk, you can order shells in bulk, too. I used to load, when I could get a bag of STS shot for under 20 bucks; I got real competition-grade ammo for 3 bucks a box. But I haven't seen STS shot at any price since the lead crunch of a few years ago, and if I'm going to load whatever lead I can find for the cheapest price, I might as well let someone else deal with the PITA of stuffing the shells together.:) And it's a REAL waste of time and money when you dump some shot on the floor and spend another hour trying to get it out from under the furniture.

The reality of the shotshell market is that the shells that are the most expensive to load, 12 Gauge with the largest amount of powder and lead, are the cheapest to buy. You really need to factor in gas, sales tax, shipping costs, etc., too, if you're ordering components or running around town replenishing your supply. Mail-order primers generally have a $20 HAZMAT fee. Same with powder. If you have to sign for them when they're delivered, you'll probably have to drive somewhere to get them, too, if you have a day job. Driving to the shop if you run out of wads costs money and time, too. Storing large amounts of components so you never run out takes space, and real estate, while cheaper than it once was, isn't free, either.

When you consider time and all these costs, going in on a pallet of shells and enjoying my days off, shooting, makes more sense to me than reloading 12 Gauge. If you can buy components through a club like oneounce does, that can save some of those costs, but most gun clubs don't do that. And if they do, you can order bulk shells through the club, too. YMMV.

I have seen far fewer shooters keep their 12 Gauge hulls I than did a few years ago. It seems that I'm not alone in my conclusions here.:)
 
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Mec has a good cost calc on its web page. When I did the #'s just a couple of years ago, I found the break even point was about 100 boxes. After that I started to save money. I was using all new parts for cost info. Now after doing my own for a few years, I know my numbers were not on target.

Hulls, my buddies at the range came through with once fired nitro hulls I have 100's of them and can get more just by going to the range. Shot, I thought I needed new for trap, the old timers showed me another way. Used shot is not perfect but good enough for a game of trap and cheaper than new. One of the old timers showed me how to harvest from the range myself and that was free. A lot of work but I had to try it once or twice.

Powder and primers buy them together at a place that will combine hazmat fees and you can save some more. Always buy enough to cover the hazmat cost as compared to your local dealer. Sometimes the guys at the range will be placing a order that has room for more see if you can add to his order. Many of my friends will take my money and add to their order to help with the hazmat fees.

The one thing you can't get at the local store is the choice of how hot you want your shots to be. They offer just a few types and its not enough. I get a lot of satisfaction shooting my own loads. Your savings will not compare to to reloading brass but its fun and has other rewards. :rolleyes:
 
The one thing you can't get at the local store is the choice of how hot you want your shots to be.
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That's true. Don't limit your choices to the local store for shells, any more than you would for components.
 
Georgia - I don't how you buy Alliant 10# at a time, unless you're buying 1# packages - it comes in 8# jugs for about that price
Hulls should be free - either from factory ammo you fired, or from range scrounging
primers and wads, when bought by the sleeve/case respectively, come in lots of 5,000 - not 3000
348 for 300# is like buying shot at $43.50/bag - there are a LOT of cheaper places
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Gamaliel Shooting Supply has Unique for $15.95 per 1 lbs bottle and $104.95 per 8 lbs jug. So, 10 lbs total is $136.85.

Likewise, Gamaliel sells primers for around $34 per 1,000. Wads can be bought in bags of 500.

Not arguin' just informin' :)

I would like to find a better price on shot.
 
Georgia - Gamaliel is the company my club uses.

Buy NobelSport primers - they are equal to Winchester AA and are an equal substitute in the recipes.

If you know what you want to reload, but the wads by the case

My Clay Dot was $96.00 OTD from my club

Not sure where you are, but most clubs, if THEY won't give you break, will have a group of folks going in on a group buy - especially for shot. We used to but shot 2 tons at a time and split it up between 5-10 people - made it 30% cheaper than the store.

THEN, load DOWN - 7/8 or even my new favorite - 3/4 - will break targets and will still leave you more for a small run of hunting loads.......
 
Winchester, Nobel, Rio, Federal, cannot load ammo that patterns well in your shotgun. You can.
Click to expand...

LOL

Interestingly, before I got this nasty sinus infection that knocked me out for a couple weeks, I went down the the shooting range and ended up shooting in a group with some of the top Sporting Clays shooters in the state. Most of them were shooting whatever they bought in bulk flats, and tossing their hulls in the trash. Their typical scores of 96/100 on a casual day's shooting difficult targets would be good enough for me...

And then there are the real competitions where you aren't allowed to shoot your handloads. Somehow, people go 100 straight at ATA shoots, too, using those non-tailored commercial target loads.

Patterning is a good thing to do, but seriously, I have never patterned my gun and seen a huge variation on the board. I don't shoot total junk, and I'm sure a few loads might really do freaky stuff from my gun. But by and large, I haven't seen real-world problems with shooting decent commercial loads, or decent handloads. If I could get STS shot again for a reasonable price, I'd do it again, but component variation is a reality in handloads, too, especially shot these days.

I mean, seriously, I have nothing against handloading. I'll probably do it again at some point. But I wouldn't suggest that someone will save a lot of money doing it right now. And I also would recommend staying away from a Mec that doesn't have a collet sizer. The extra cash for a Sizemaster is WELL worth it, over a 600. That thing makes perfect shells, without any real hassle.

Bottom line for me? I reload pistol rounds for price, rifle rounds for tailored accuracy, and shotgun rounds if there's a very specific reason like an ultralight load, or I can get some real top-notch components.
 
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Sorry AB - while I agree with some of your comments, I can still load quality shells on my 600 - AND I can make them 3/4 oz. AND I can load those, or 7/8 or 1oz 3-5 bucks a box cheaper than quality factory loads of equal ability
 
There's more to reloading than cost. If you like to shoot a lot of anything other than .22 lr, you're going to go through some cash, and that's all there is to it.

True, you probably can't beat the cost of el-cheapo wall mart special shotgun ammo by reloading, but you can work up specialty loads for yourself at significant savings. This is especially true if you want to shoot a lot of slugs. If you cast them yourself, you can load them for pennies a round.

Also, if you handload, you can produce loads that aren't widely available commercially. For example, I have experimented with some loads consisting of hardened #F buckshot that have impressed me. Try finding that on the shelves of even a large national chain gun store.
 
Dick's had Remington Gun Club light target for $4.98 a box of 25 shells on sale. I couldn't see how I could buy the components (virgin shot, bulk wads, primers, powder, etc) for much less than that, so I bought ten flats of shells.
Sure, you can reload to meet the desire of the shooter- heck, that's why I got into some oddball metallic cartridges, because I could- but I don't shoot competition or even any shotgun sports at all, I just like to go out and blast targets. I go through about 100 shotshells a month. It's not worth my time (to me) to bother reloading shotshells, but I am going to save these Gun Club hulls for a rainy day.
 
348 for 300# is like buying shot at $43.50/bag - there are a LOT of cheaper places
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oneounce, I'd like to know where you get your shot.

The going rate around here is about $45 per 25#. And trying BPI, 25# is $38; then once you add shipping, it comes up to almost $55 for one bag.

With the exception of specialty hunting loads, there is no need to reload shotgun shells.

Oh, except for the enjoyment of it.:neener:

Wyman
 
True, you probably can't beat the cost of el-cheapo wall mart special shotgun ammo by reloading
Click to expand...

Wally world is about $21/4 boxes all over the place - $5.50 per box.

I can reload BETTER ammo for $3/box.

I shoot between 10 and 15,000 rounds per year

10,000 divided by 25 rounds per box - equals 400 boxes - at $2.00 per box difference, that is $800 per year

THAT alone is worth the effort as it lets me shoot more for the same amount of cash
 
While I don't reload for the economics of it, I still reload for quality hunting rounds. I have found craiglist to be a great help finding reloading components. I know it is not a steady supply but I don't reload as often as I used to so by keeping an eye on the adds, new old stock lead can be found for as little as $10 a bag. I won't buy open powder, just don't know how it was stored or if what is on the label is what is in the container.

as far as the economics go, assuming hi quality rounds produced at an average of 10 boxes and hour it would take a week (5 eight hour days) to load 400 boxes. $800 for a weeks worth of labor seems a little low, unless you really enjoy the work. This allows no time to get the components or the cost of acquiring them.

On the other side it is a hobby that can turn a profit, not like most of my other hobbies
 
Oh, I didn't say time was a factor - because you are correct - if you have more money than time, then reloading would be a waste of time. I am in the opposite state - I have more time than money - so the time I spend is time I don't spend weeding or mowing the lawn or painting........
 
For real cost savings when reloading--several of you must pool resources and purchase in true "bulk" to allow frugal shooting.

Buy primers by the 100,000 at the very least. Buy shot #1000 lbs at a time, powder--what ever is cheapest per shot at the time. Don't get hung up on "having" to use a specific brand or a load calling for that powder. Scrounge hulls wherever possible.

However to do this you will have to involve at least five others so all of you can afford to buy in these amounts. In the long run this will pay off.
 
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