Shotshell reloading question

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au_prospector

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I set up my dad's old Lee Loader II in 20 gauge. Took a half dozen tries to get a decent finished shell and now I think I have the hang of it. Noticed a couple things.

1) The finished shot shells rattle as the shot is loose inside.
2) The instructions state to fully depress the charge bar to get the final crimp. When I do this, I get an inverted crimp with a donut hole in the middle, not a flat one. If I am careful and slowly form the crimp and not pull the handle all the way, I can get a nice flat crimp with no hole in the middle, but there is no roll at the top.

I am using 20 gauge Winchester AA, Remington STS, and Peters hulls. Winchester 209 primers, 15 grains of Unique (Lee powder bushing 100) and Remington wads and some Claybusters AA wads. 7/8 of #8 shot.

The finished shells look good, but rattle like a baby's toy and there is no roll on the crimp like a factory shell.

Is this normal or maybe I am pushing the wad too far down? I plan on more 'practice' tonight. :D
 
Not normal. Follow a recipe using the exact components, if not already. Use no wad pressure when seating a plastic wad.
 
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A small spacer made of cork or felt will also firm up the crimp if placed over the shot. This will also not raise pressure significantly. We do it all the time with steel shot to fill the hulls. I used to use a Lee Load All and it is capable of making good loads, with minimal messing around.

Keep with it. It's a fun habit to have!
 
You can't mix wads and hulls.
Click to expand...

Yeah RC, I'm putting that to the test. My dad had half a bag of old Remington wads on his bench. They are a bit shorter than the Claybuster WAA20 I purchased. Unfortunately most of the Remington bag is missing so I do not know exactly which ones they are. They seem to have a smaller powder cup than the Claybusters.

Anyway I am getting MUCH better crimps with the Claybusters which are supposed to be Winchester AA clones. I have a recipe for AA hulls and AA wads with my Winchester primers and the Unique powder and it seems to be working.

Only problem now is the Lee Loader owners manual is telling me the 100 powder bushing delivers 15 grains of Unique. It keeps weighing out to only 13.5 grains though. Do I trust the bushing or my Lyman D-7 mechanical scale?
 
I would trust almost any scale over anything Lee ever said about anything they make drops powder at.

Powder is a live thing.
It gets fluffier if you shake it up.
It gets denser if you pack it down while measuring it in a measure.
It may even get fatter if it eats too much ice cream in the middle of the night after you go to bed?

But the one thing it doesn't do is change how much energy is contained in the actual weight of a charge.

rc
 
load one normally and stop right before you put the final crimp on..

make sure the top of the wad sets and the crimp, and make sure the shot charge is pretty damn close to the top of the wad..

you either have the wrong wad for the hull, or the wrong shot bushing for the wad.
 
As with anything with a set cavity for measureing powder, it better throw light due to varying lots of powder. You have a scale, so find one that is a bit closer to what you are after. Your scale is surely right. Hell, I have an adjustabe charge bar on my mec and different lost of powder drop different... big time.

If the load your looking for is supposed to be 15 grains and your throwing 13.5 grains, that could be why your loose with your crimps. Unique is a fluffy powder, so it does take up quite a bit of the hull.
 
I am using 20 gauge Winchester AA, Remington STS, and Peters hulls. Winchester 209 primers, 15 grains of Unique (Lee powder bushing 100) and Remington wads and some Claybusters AA wads. 7/8 of #8 shot.
Click to expand...

AA and Remington hulls are completely different in their internal makeup and are NOT interchangeable. The same is true for the wads. This is NOT the same as metallic where the case doesn't matter - in shotshell reloading it makes a BIG difference in regards to pressure, powder migration, wad depth seating, etc.

The LLA is especially vulnerable in that you cannot adjust any of the settings in the crimp
 
Okay I am going to stop and start over.

I have the Lyman Shotshell Reloading Handbook 5th ed. First I am going to figure out which Lee Loader bushing gives 15 - 16 grains of Unique. I suspect it is bushing 110, but will check scale weights. Then I am going to use the Claybuster WAA20 wads with my Winchester W209 primers and the Winchester Hulls. There is a Unique powder recipe for this in the book.

I have Winchester AA hulls, are these considered compression formed cases? The book doesnt specify AA hulls. My hulls are some 20 years old but only once fired, they still make these though right? How come AA isnt specified in book?

I have Remington Peters hulls, are these considered Premier STS Plastic Cases? The book doesnt specify Peters hulls. Peters is an old and gone company?

Maybe I need to start with fresh modern hulls to match the book, or I need current recipes for these old hulls? Which is it.

Thanks for all your help. If nothing else it is a thrill for me to re-live what my dad did for fun. I know I am only saving a buck a box, but the process is cool and will be satisfying once I get it right.
 
i use peters blue majic in place of remington nitro 27s only.. but that is in 12ga.. another thing you can do for your crimp if you really really want that wad and ammount of shot is switch to a fluffyer powder such as blue dot. also you may want to run your crimping die down a little more untill you get the roll you want.
 
If the Peters hulls are black (if my memory servers me) they are good hulls. But I though they had a different primer than the 209, 57?. I still have some loaded up but I do not know if I have the load data in the box with them. I used Win 540 powder back in the 70's which is now the the new WSF. Unique is widely used for light loads, thats what my dad used. When you set your wadding there should be a load applied to slightly compress the wadding/powder, normally 40# is the most common used. This info is supplied with the recipe. I use an old Mec 600 Jr so when the wadding is installed and loaded the shot is dropped on top before releasing the handle up and moving to the next station. If you don't get the pressure on the wadding it's hard to keep the shot from rattling. You should have about 3/8" above the shot before the crimp. If done right you will have a very nice roll bead along top. Shotgun reloading is nothing like metallic reloading. You have to follow the loads with no deviation for things to work out.

Make sure you don't have any 6 and 8 seg crimps mixed, you can not inter change them. I normally have to roll them to get the started crimp to align with the originals. Your press should not require this. You can use a drop of hot wax on top if your concern about the shot falling out on the ones that are a little loose. This is a must if your shooting a auto to keep the any shot that might leak out of the action. I can't tell you how many times I had to tear my dad's 1100 down to clean it for that. You had to use was on paper hulls, too.

Good luck, Sounds like your getting close.
 
JLDickmon,

Claybuster makes more than one wad. I use #CB 0178-12 (WAA12L) for 7/8oz loads in STS hulls with Red Dot powder.
 
There is definitely a difference between 20 ga and 12 ga and hull selection. In a 12 ga, I laod all remington hulls with the same data. Certain Win hulls can be swapped with Rem as well, but you will need to load for many moons to know which you will use.

If you would like some good info, go over to duckhuntingchat.com and do some reading. We mostly deal with steelshot reloading, but you'll definitely learn something. Don't be afrad to ask lead shot questions as well, as many of us over there have had loads tested and have gotten answers from the powder manufacturers on our questions.

Stick with it. You'll find it's an addiction!
 
I have Winchester AA hulls, are these considered compression formed cases?
Click to expand...

Depends - then older ones with the large AA in a black box are the CF ones

there's the issue.. Claybusters are 1oz. wads
Click to expand...

Claybuster makes a plethora of wads to mimic ALL of the major makers in every gauge

I have Remington Peters hulls, are these considered Premier STS Plastic Cases? The book doesnt specify Peters hulls. Peters is an old and gone company?
Click to expand...

ALL Remington hulls can be treated the same as far as load data is concerned - watch to make sure you have all 6 or 8 point crimps. STS were designed for a lot of reloading and will last the longest, followed by the Gun Clubs
 
JLDickmon,

Claybuster makes more than one wad. I use #CB 0178-12 (WAA12L) for 7/8oz loads in STS hulls with Red Dot powder.
Click to expand...

leads me back to my point..
is the OP using a 1oz. wad and only dropping 7/8 oz.?
 
If you are applying more wad pressure than you need, you might get a nicer crimp by backing off the wad pressure setting. All you need is to see the wad pressure needle move a bit. No need to compress the wad or powder excessively. This will not compensate for mismatched wad/powder/shot combination but decreasing wad pressure could give you some wiggle room.
 
I don't know a lot about shotshell reloading but there is one thing I know for sure. Follow the recipe EXACTLY are printed in the manual and DO NOT substitute ANY components unless they are direct replacements. (like the Claybusters)
 
Okies,

I am now consistently making great shells with really nice crimps. I sorted through and saved all my AA hulls. Dont have enough Remington hulls to really mess with them, I threw about 35 away. So my load is now

20 gauge AA hulls
Winchester 209 primers
15.5 grains Unique (Lee Load All bushing 122)
Claybusters WAA20 7/8 load
7/8 ounce shot
crimp and done.

Once I changed to this recipe, It all came together perfectly.
LYMANS Shotshell guide recommends the above with 15-16 grains of UNIQUE to give about 1145-1200 fps. I think the problem before was the Lee Load All bushing #100 only gave 13.5 grains Unique so my column was too low to get a good crimp.

Thanks everyone for their advice and input!
 
Do yourself a favor - once every box or so weigh your powder and shot to make sure you are close to your recipe. LLA bushings are not always the most accurate - without a powder baffle, drops can be inconsistent
 
LLA bushings are not always the most accurate - without a powder baffle, drops can be inconsistent
Click to expand...

The baffles are in the hoppers on the LA and work consistently as long as the reservoirs are always filled above the baffles. The drops are as consistent as they are on my sizemaster and MS bar/baffle arrangement.
 
Yes, I have been weighing the powder every so often to make sure we are still dropping about 15.5 grains. Mostly spot on, sometimes 15.4 - 15.7 grains and that is okay for me. The shot I have not tried weighing after the initial weight, which was very close to 7/8 but volume wise it appears to drop the same every time.

The only thing I would say about the Lee Load All is compared to the published table, my bushings drop light but maybe that is the powder I am using, Unique.
Once I started weighing and changed the bushing accordingly, it all came together.
 
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