Shotshell reloading question

[joecil]

I shoot at Bud's new indoor range and can shoot black powder pistol loads there, but then they have a state of the art range and ventilation system so the smoke isn't a problem. Now shotguns are different only 2 days a week in the evening and buck or slugs only can be fired. When I asked why no target ammo they simply said to much spreed in some cases doing damage to others targets. Now shooting out doors as I do with my cowboy action group black powder or smokeless on means you shoot in a different class in some cases.

 

[Noz]

My father was not a shooter. Everything I learned about shooting, I learned by myself. I went away to college and Dad called me one day to ask about using my grandfathers musket in a turkey shoot. My standard load for it was about 80 grs of black and a plastic package of BBs screwed down into the barrel. Ram it home and put a wad of toilet paper on top of it in case you bust the plastic package. I capped with musket caps.
Now the gun was converted from flint to percussion some years before I ever saw it by turning the barrel and screwing a nipple into the touch hole. The percussion hammer had to be bent and welded to make it hit the nipple. This system cause a situation in which the gun would almost never fire the first time you pulled the trigger. Maybe on the second time and almost always on the third.
Dad took it to a turkey shoot and had terrible luck with it. Couldn't get a pellet on the 8" square pieces of paper with a penciled x drawn on it. (Closest pellet to the x wins)
He decide I didn't know how to load it so he doubled the powder charge, pointed it kinda down range to get the first trigger pull out of the way.
It fired. Turned him completely around. When the smoke cleared, the target, wood backing and the stake that held both were gone.
They gave him a turkey and told him to take the gun home.

 

[junkman_01]

Great story Noz!

 

[Busyhands94]

Awesome story! I liked reading that!

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

I can't wait to see the heads turning when everyone is shooting smokeless and I'm not! Priceless!

Howdy Again

I knew my comments would singe some eyebrows. I have quoted the sentence that I was objecting to. All shooting disciplines have a certain etiquette. Trap is no different. The etiquette of the trap range is that every shooter waits his turn to shoot, and does not do anything distracting to the other shooters while they are waiting. I have often heard it said that trap shooters are snobs. Most are not snobs, they are just intent on their game. If somebody shows up and basically says, 'Look at me! I'm shooting Black Powder, and making lots of boom and smoke!', that is distracting, and frankly it is not respectful of the game of Trap.

I think as long as I am safe and respect other shooters we shouldn't have a problem,

Respect is the key. If you show up and are respectful of the game and the other shooters, you will have no problem. If on the other hand you show up with an attitude of 'I shoot Black Powder and I'm really cool and you Smokeless guys are not', then I would have a problem with you.

Just so you know, as I said, I shoot Black Powder all the time, pistols, rifle, and shotgun. I even showed up at my club's Trap range one day when I had just bought a nice old Stevens SXS and wanted to try some Black Powder loads out of it. A couple of guys were quite clear that they did not want to shoot a round next to me. That was fine with me, I respected their wishes. There were quite a few who came out of the clubhouse to watch. And there were several who wanted to try a few shots.

Respect is the key. Don't show up expecting to 'turn heads.'

 

[mykeal]

A couple of guys were quite clear that they did not want to shoot a round next to me. That was fine with me, I respected their wishes.

That's not respect in my book. It's also not how the trap shooters I shoot with would act. That's a very sad story. But I now understand your earlier comments about 'most trap shooters'.

 

[Pulp]

Busy, when said gunsmith checks out the shotgun have him measure the chamber length. Many of the old 16 gauges are chambered for 2.5 inch shells, not the current 2.75 we now have. No problem though, I just cut off mine at the crimp line, use an overshot card and put a starter crimp on just enough to help hold the card in.

With brass shells you won't have to worry about that.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

That's not respect in my book. It's also not how the trap shooters I shoot with would act. That's a very sad story. But I now understand your earlier comments about 'most trap shooters'.

You misunderstand my position on respect. As I said, there is a certain etiquette in trap shooting. The etiquette is that one does not disturb the concentration of the shooter next to you. So you don't talk while he is shooting, you don't make sudden movements that will be in his peripheral vision, you try to respect the shooter standing next to you. Most serious trap shooters have set routine. Anything that disturbs that routine can be enough of a distraction to make them miss a target. Being a trap shooter myself I recognize this. So if somebody says they don't want to be standing next to me when I am launching clouds of smoke down range, then I respect their desires. They did not tell me I could not shoot on their squad, they declined to shoot on the same squad with me. These guys are not strangers, I know them all, they are friends. So if a friend of mine tells me he does not want to shoot next to a distraction like me blasting clouds of smoke down range, I respect that.

 

[arcticap]

If there's a lot of smoke and odor lingering in the air then I suppose that it could interfere with the others who are shooting.
The same can be said for anyone shooting any black powder guns at any range facility.
Black powder shooters often joke about how they create clouds of smoke while others are shooting.
But because everyone is target shooting informally and mostly for recreation, most folks don't consider making clouds of BP smoke to be inconsiderate to the other smokeless shooters.
However, folks who pay money to shoot each round of trap are sometimes shooting more competitively, even if only among themselves or to train for competition. One trap club that I go to hands out a patch for a perfect score which some people really try hard to accomplish during each and every round. And trap shooters will sometimes make side bets among themselves. So shooting trap can be taken much more seriously than simple casual shooting is at any other range.
Not everyone wants to pay up to $10 per round or more including the cost of shells to shoot a round of trap to have to shoot through lingering smoke, or need to wait for smoke to dissipate after each BP shot.
But not everyone feels that it's an inconvenience either.
However it is being respectful to ask the other shooters in advance if they mind if you shoot black powder shells along with them. Someone with a real aversion to it may want to choose to sit out.
Of course each club has its own rules. But if a club doesn't have established rules concerning shooting with black powder, then the range officer in charge of the trap field can simply decide to be arbitrary and not allow it.
Driftwood Johnson makes some good points in that it's important to understand the reasons why in advance.

 

[Pulp]

I reckon that means no razzing other shooters like we do in a CAS matches! Probably wouldn't be a good idea to throw a firecracker behind the guy on the line would it?

Just kidding Driftwood. If that's the way they want to be, then I'll respect their wishes, but for me, life's too short to be serious about anything short of family, religion and freedom.

 

[junkman_01]

In my younger days I shot competition trap for 16 years. Disturbances are not tolerated well on the trap line. DJ is correct, Mykeal is wrong. That's just how it is.

 

[Busyhands94]

I'll be sure when I go to shoot to talk to all the guys and gals on my quad to make sure they are all okay with my blackpowder handloads. Of course I'll bring an extra box worth so they can all see the loads in action before hand and possibly try them.

 

[mykeal]

I called the president of our trap leagues. He told me using a black powder shotgun would not be considered a distraction in any of our leagues (a little weird maybe, but a distraction - no), and he'd never seen anyone refuse to shoot next to one at any of the away matches he'd shot in the past 25 years. He further said a distraction would be someone loudly talking out of turn or walking around just behind the firing lines. And since he and several others in our league compete at state level and national level matches I just assumed the majority were like that. I guess that's where I was 'wrong'.

 

[Busyhands94]

Thanks for the info Mykeal!

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

I reckon that means no razzing other shooters like we do in a CAS matches! Probably wouldn't be a good idea to throw a firecracker behind the guy on the line would it?

That's exactly right. There is a different etiquette at a CAS match than there is at a Trap range. I razz shooters while they are on the line all the time at a CAS match. I wouldn't dream of doing so at the Trap range, even at weekly practice.

Well every once in a while I will razz somebody at the Trap range, but only after the shooter has fired, and only if I know him real well. At a CAS match, we razz guys before they reach the firing line, while they are shooting, and after they have left the firing line. Of course even at a CAS match I only do that to friends I know well. Once or twice a stranger has not taken kindly to it. You see, there are intense competitors in CAS too, and we know when to keep our traps shut so we don't disturb them while they are shooting.

Different sports, different etiquette.

I'll be sure when I go to shoot to talk to all the guys and gals on my quad to make sure they are all okay with my blackpowder handloads. Of course I'll bring an extra box worth so they can all see the loads in action before hand and possibly try them.

That is a good attitude. Letting folks know that you plan on doing something different, not just showing up and trying to impress folks.

mykeal: I'll bet the president of your Trap league has never seen anybody shooting Black Powder in all those 25 years of away matches. Nobody would show up at a match with Black Powder. Nobody. Not when the score counts for the league. We are talking about somebody showing up for informal practice at their local club. And I guarantee you that if it happens, somebody will get their nose out of joint.

 

[mykeal]

Well, I know it's happened at our local matches because I've done it. That's why I find the descriptions of trap shooters as a discipline that you and others have posted so incredible. They're an indictment of an entire sport. From what you've written I am lead to assume that there are people who won't shoot in our leagues because they're accommodating to the unusual; frankly, they're a bunch of nice guys who enjoy shotgun shooting and welcome anyone to participate with them. I had assumed trap shooting as a discipline was like that, but I guess not.

I inferred from his response yesterday that he had seen black powder shot elsewhere as well, but I'll ask him directly this morning. We built a new combined trap/skeet range last year and we're kicking off a landscaping project today, so I know he'll be there.