Should 18 Year Olds Be Allowed to CCW?

[JackBurtonJr]

Where exactly is everybody getting the idea that only responsible people will take advantage of it?

I know 26 yr olds with permits that are complete idiots.

Funny. I saw almost this identical quote from a gun banner on the Brady Bunch website concerning CCW in general.

 

[JackBurtonJr]

Show me YOUR documentation that "tens of thousands" are doing this safely.

Wow... I never thought I would have to "prove" to someone on the Highroad that CCW holders were a law abiding bunch of people.

You can start on page one and go to the end.

http://www.gunfacts.info

 

[TallPine]

If 18 is ok, why not 16, I have seen some very mature 16 year olds.

In Montana, 14 is the minimum age to carry a firearm without immediate supervison of parents/adults. That is primarily a hunting regulation but no stipulation is made between long guns and hand guns.

I can't remember if my girls were 17 or 18 when I first let then (talked them into, actually) carrying a .22 revolver out on hikes.

But then - ranch kids around here are typically driving by 8 or 10

 

[22-rimfire]

Sorry Burton; Giving me a link does not demonstrate you have any facts what so ever on this issue. Tell me specifically what I need to know. Sorry for pushing, but you're the one who claims to know this issue and can back up the 18 year old limit with facts. Educate me. The shoe is on the other foot. Or is it sort of like your maturity criticisms?? Remember this is for 18-20 year olds, not something that is lumped together with all ages and I want to see "tens of thousands" of sub-21 year olds with carry permits.

Honestly, I feel 21 was just an age that was selected because that is the legal age that otherwise law abiding folks are able to buy a handgun from a FFL dealer. As the previous poster mentioned, the Montana reg was geared toward hunting but there is no distinction between long guns or handguns. Some states have 18, some 21, and some essentially no age. I believe NJ does not stipulate any age, but a handgun carry permit is next to impossible to obtain in that state.

 

[DF357]

under 21, no, unless you're a veteran.

 

[Gunnerpalace]

But I never wanted to carry a handgun either or had the money for such

Well I would like to, I am willing to complete a comprehensive BC and training course.

unless you're a veteran

Remember the "assault weapons" quote?


I can most assure you that if a person between the ages of 18-21 that had a legal CCW did a criminal shooting it would be all over the news.

 

[22-rimfire]

Sorry I edited that phrase (propaganda) out before I saw your post. I go to the same web sites for my information too. And yes, I believe it would be all over the news since the media in general is very anti-gun and anti-concealed carry for civilians.

I don't like the classes that are supposed to teach you what you need to know for concealed carry. The higher level training is expensive and for me not a priority. I would hate to have some government agency require such for a carry permit at any age. We're heading back to that old word "maturity" again.

I dislike the term "assault weapons" unless it is applied exclusively to weapons that are select fire or fully automatic.

 

[dm1333]

Soybomb

They're not looking for evidence, they're just guessing and supporting legislation based off their feelings depriving adults of the right to protect themselves. Shame on us.

I agree that the post on concealed carry in Indiana was a good one but I don't agree with what you said above. Some of us have experience with 18-21 year olds that would drive us to not support concealed carry for 18 year olds. I can't present you with a handy link to my experiences as the XPO(second in command) of a Coast Guard station but I could certainly justify myself based on personal experience if I wanted to say that it should not be allowed. Three years of dealing with poor decisions when it came to alcohol, drugs, driving, weapons, money and personal accountability would be enough to justify me voting no if I chose to. Others might have had the same type of experience because they are teachers, counselors, etc. Don't discount the importance of personal experience that may have influenced somebody's decision.

Before everybody jumps all over my azz for this post, I didn't vote but I do think 18 year olds should be allowed to carry concealed, buy pistols and drink.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

If 18 is ok, why not 16, I have seen some very mature 16 year olds."

16 is the legal age in Vermont.No problems there since enacted in 1902 that I know about.

The Vermont Statutes Online
Title 13: Crimes and Criminal Procedure
Chapter 85: Weapons

§ 4008. Possession of firearms by children

A child under the age of sixteen years shall not, without the consent of his parents or guardian, have in his possession or control a pistol or revolver constructed or designed for the use of gunpowder or other explosive substance with leaden ball or shot. A child who violates a provision of this section shall be deemed a delinquent child under the provisions of chapter 55 of Title 33.

Actually, based on the law you cited the age in Vermont is not 16 -- it's whatever the parents decide is old enough. 16 is the age at which a Vermonter can carry without parental consent. Looks to me on the basis of that law that a 5-year old could tote a Desert Eagle if one of the parents signed off, and it would be perfectly legal.

 

[Solo Flyer]

Actually, based on the law you cited the age in Vermont is not 16 -- it's whatever the parents decide is old enough. 16 is the age at which a Vermonter can carry without parental consent. Looks to me on the basis of that law that a 5-year old could tote a Desert Eagle if one of the parents signed off, and it would be perfectly legal.

Excellent clarification.You have a very analytical mind, AB.Vermont,its all good(firearms wise).I'd love to see the pre-schooler with the Desert Eagle.Heck ,if the kids mature and hefty enough, let him strap it on!
Now, politics are another matter.

 

[JackBurtonJr]

Sorry Burton; Giving me a link does not demonstrate you have any facts what so ever on this issue. Tell me specifically what I need to know.

You've already been "told" but you choose to ignore it. Indiana has almost 400,000 CCW holders with the minimum age of 18. Where are all the teens in jail from misuing their CCW that you are trumpeting will happen?

You have not attempted once to address that fact. And we know why.

Sorry for pushing, but you're the one who claims to know this issue and can back up the 18 year old limit with facts.

Did you bother reading the op?

Here's the stats for you concerning the percentage of population that have CCW in states that have shall issue to people under 21:

IN (6.79%) ,

ME (2.41%,

MT (1.70%)

NH, (?? but probably over 2.0)

ND (1.34%)

SD (7.45%)

and

WY. (1.94%)

http://blogostuff.blogspot.com/2004/12/percentage-of-adults-with-carry.html

Now... you can either say that -- of all these folk who have CCW in those states -- there are none that are actually under 21 even though the law allows it... or you can say that there are certainly some that are.

Which is it?

And then explain to us why -- if there are people 18-21 with CCW licenses in these states -- there are no reports coming out from these states about their misuse.

And there are no efforts to raise the minimum age because of misuse. Why do you think that is, with your forecast of horror stories?

Educate me.

You've pretty well proven that you don't bother to either read the posts or understand them. I am much more interested in "educating" those that are reading these.

The shoe is on the other foot. Or is it sort of like your maturity criticisms??

1) I have given numbers and state laws. You have given emotion. I think we know who's shoe fits which foot.

2) Please explain what a "maturity criticisms" is.

Remember this is for 18-20 year olds, not something that is lumped together with all ages and I want to see "tens of thousands" of sub-21 year olds with carry permits.

Then I'd advise you to refer back to the op.

Honestly, I feel 21 was just an age that was selected because that is the legal age that otherwise law abiding folks are able to buy a handgun from a FFL dealer.

Which has nothing to do with the discussion.

As the previous poster mentioned, the Montana reg was geared toward hunting but there is no distinction between long guns or handguns. Some states have 18, some 21, and some essentially no age. I believe NJ does not stipulate any age, but a handgun carry permit is next to impossible to obtain in that state.

All of which, again, has nothing to do with the discussion.

 

[JackBurtonJr]

Don't discount the importance of personal experience that may have influenced somebody's decision.

James and Sarah Brady's "personal experience" with guns, along with Carolyn McCarthy's "personal experience" with guns certainly has influenced their decision to spend the rest of their lifes attempting to take away mine and your guns.

They live in their very own reality that they've constructed.

We gun owners should live in the real world, though. Especially when there is hard factual evidence over decades involving tens of thousands of people to back our reality up.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Just found this topic...Voted yes. If we allow them to carry uncle Sam"s rifle and side arm. With a training course as I had to take I see no real problem.

 

[CombatArmsUSAF]

Seeing as how a third of the people that have voted either agree with me or don't support it at all, I don't think I am being unreasonable. This will be my last post in this thread because it is definitely not THR style.

At no point have I bashed anyone's opinion. Yet I have been told that I am emotional and that I am ducking the issue and that I don't know what I am talking about.

Got news for you guys, I am not that far from 18 myself and I still have many friends in that age group. Alot of them, I wouldn't trust to drive my car, let alone carry a gun in a busy shopping mall.

NOTE: Just the other day I was reading a thread about the bashing that has been going on here at THR, I have been a member here since 2005 and I will say that there is more of it now, than when I first became a member.

 

[CombatArmsUSAF]

Oh yeah, And I was compared to the brady bunch. This is getting ridiculous.

 

[JackBurtonJr]

Oh yeah, And I was compared to the brady bunch. This is getting ridiculous.

Sorry to take the "victim card" away from you, son, but you were never compared to the Brady bunch.

Your statements were. Do you want to deny that your statement could be posted on an anti-gun site and fit in pretty well. Go for it.

 

[S&WKING]

i love nebraska but i hate it 21 to buy a pistol and i doubt it will change so ccw is out of question

 

[22-rimfire]

The maturity argument is not only an emotional argument. It is very relevant to the discussion when trying to change the laws in other states that have a carry age of 21. Folks should be happy that they can get a permit at all. I believe Bogie mentioned taking little steps in this or another similar thread.

Burton, my comments are generally very germane to the OP. Good attempt at explaining, but you didn't address the 18-20 ages except by using an association argument (here's the numbers, there must be some that are under 21, must be tens of thousands of them).

So the discussion comes back to opinion. Your opinion is no more relevant then mine from my perspective. Is it a good idea for all states? With training or without training? How much training? Should there be carry licenses at all using the 2A argument?

Change the age requirement for the purchase of handguns from 21 to 18 through a FFL dealer. After all, how do they get their handguns? Private sales of course, Mommy and Daddy, or another older family member most likely.... That is the one that Obama will likely address if he tackles the firearm issue. I hope he chooses to go against his nature should he be elected president. Obama does not want concealed carry to be legal for anyone except law enforcement and military.

Burton, by the way, your original post, #83, is a good post with regard to the age issue.

Enjoy.

 

[Drgong]

18... I also think they should be able to buy Beer and wine at age 18 as well.

enough of this sissying around that somehow 18 year olds are not responsible, unless they commit a crime that is...

now if charged as a adult, voting, ect was at 21, then i could understand the age of 21...

My state is one with 21 for CCW. Actually you cannot buy a handgun unless you are 21 in NC if I recall correctly.

 

[RancidSumo]

There is hard, factual evidence extending over decades with tens of thousands of 18 year olds in multiple states carrying with no harm to the community. Please tell us what hard, factual evidence you have that 12 - 16 years olds can carry with no harm to the community.

If you can produce it... then let's go for it. If you can't produce it... then it makes it a pretty silly argument, eh.

Wyoming and a couple of other states allow OC at 16 or even younger. In Vermont you can CC at 16 without a permit. Nothing bad has come of it.

 

[dm1333]

CombatArmsUSAF

I think I'm the one being compared to Sarah Brady.

 

[novaDAK]

I've been Open Carrying since I turned 18. I'm still waiting until I'm 21 so I can get my CCW permit so if I want to go armed, OC is my only option legally.

I KNOW I'm mature enough. No one else can decide that for me. My safety is my own responsibility.

ETA: I have 1.7 years to go until I'm 21.

 

[Soybomb]

I agree that the post on concealed carry in Indiana was a good one but I don't agree with what you said above. Some of us have experience with 18-21 year olds that would drive us to not support concealed carry for 18 year olds. I can't present you with a handy link to my experiences as the XPO(second in command) of a Coast Guard station but I could certainly justify myself based on personal experience if I wanted to say that it should not be allowed. Three years of dealing with poor decisions when it came to alcohol, drugs, driving, weapons, money and personal accountability would be enough to justify me voting no if I chose to. Others might have had the same type of experience because they are teachers, counselors, etc. Don't discount the importance of personal experience that may have influenced somebody's decision.

Your personal experiences might lead to your conclusion but that doesn't mean those are valid conclusions showing rational thought. Following your logic aren't the antis calling for gun bans because of personal tragedy fully justified? Aren't leo's who say they're the only ones professional enough because they deal with society's trash all then justified to say the same? It comes down to the same thing it comes down to with every similar debate I have the 100% antis on this, we have the evidence, will you look at it? We don't need to guess how 18 year olds will behave with carried weapons because they already do it. Either what you believe will happen based on your experiences in life is true and happens and is easily proven, or you're just guessing and wrong. Shouldn't you at least want to find the actual truth before you advocate depriving people of the right to self defense?

 

[tpaw]

Just because we disagree on an issue, don't throw "your are helping the brady bunch." It is a lame attack.

I agree.
Just for the sake of it I asked my 18 year old nephew if he and his friends should be allowed to conceal carry a handgun. He looked at me like I was from another planet and said, " Are you kidden me! We're all pretty well adjusted and fairly level headed, but carry guns!" " I don't think so, we all want to see our next birthday". " I don't think that any of us will go "postal", but I know that one of us will take it out to show another guy, and boom, accidential discharge." " We like to sneak our beers whenever we can, and the guns with the beer will only mean trouble". Especially when a few guys that I know like to show off in front of the girls". It's bad enough that a couple of guys have already wrecked cars because of fooling around and showing off, carry guns, no way!."
Just the opinion of an 18 year old in today's world.

 

[JackBurtonJr]

Burton, my comments are generally very germane to the OP. Good attempt at explaining, but you didn't address the 18-20 ages except by using an association argument (here's the numbers, there must be some that are under 21, must be tens of thousands of them).

If you want to deny there are under-21 CCW holders I am not going to get in your way.

So the discussion comes back to opinion.

So it is only my opinion that Indiana along with many other states allow under-21 CCW?

You must have a very unique view of the word "opinion." I can see why we are having trouble communicating.

And it is only my "opinion" that some of those almost 400,000 CCW holders in Indiana alone are actually under 21? Even though my two daughters fit into that group?

You must have a very unique view of the word "opinion." I can see why we are having trouble communicating.

And it is only my "opinon" that, as an activist for a number of years for RKBK and an Indiana resident, there is no evidence of misuse of their CCW by those under-21 year olds.

You must have a very unique view of the word "opinion." I can see why we are having trouble communicating.

Your opinion is no more relevant then mine from my perspective.

...said the flat earth believer to Stephen Hawkins in a discussion about the cosmos.

Is it a good idea for all states? With training or without training? How much training?

I am willing to admit that Hoosiers are vastly superior to all other state residents but that leaves the problem that other states also have the same positive experience that we do. Maybe the superior states are the only ones who have under-21 carry?

Works for me...

Should there be carry licenses at all using the 2A argument?

Non sequiture. Why not ask about the 1934 ban on fully automatics while you're busy attempting to lay rabbit trails.

Change the age requirement for the purchase of handguns from 21 to 18 through a FFL dealer. After all, how do they get their handguns? Private sales of course, Mommy and Daddy, or another older family member most likely.... That is the one that Obama will likely address if he tackles the firearm issue. I hope he chooses to go against his nature should he be elected president. Obama does not want concealed carry to be legal for anyone except law enforcement and military.

All of which has nothing to do with the question and is just an attempt to put a smokescreen down to hide that fact that the poster has no real answer that works for him.