Should a suicide gun stay in the family?

[Mr. Doughnut]

I'm looking for some thoughts and opinions on a weighty topic...

Background:

A troubled man deliberately kills himself with his Colt 1911. Some years later, the deceased's father gives the gun to a nephew, who is a younger cousin of the suicide victim. The uncle (again, he's the father of the suicide victim) expresses a desire to his nephew that the gun stay in the family. But the deceased's mother wants the gun "gone," and the deceased's sister wants the gun destroyed.

The younger cousin who now has the 1911 wants to keep the gun, and is thinking of having it refinished (the pistol still has organic residue on it from the suicide). Further, the cousin who received the 1911 wants to shoot it as a tribute to his late older cousin, with whom he shared many good times and has many great memories. Plus, the younger cousin wants (someday) to start enjoying the suicide gun with his own son.

Two questions:

1. Whose wishes should be honored, the uncle's or the deceased's sister's?

2. If the gun stays, should future shooting activities involving the suicide gun within the (extended) family be kept secret from the sister to avoid re-traumatizing her?

Another point: If individuals are at a greater risk to commit suicide if a family member has already done so -- at least 2.5x greater, according to one study published in 2010 -- does anyone see an added danger of keeping this particular gun around?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts on this.

Mr. Doughnut

 

[wacki]

according to one study .....

Anonymous studies and anonymous experts are dangerous things. Be careful with them.

does anyone see an added danger of keeping this particular gun around?

Suicide prone people will find a way to die. #1 mode of death in Switzerland is hanging and there are guns everywhere.

I would ask your family members this question: "If someone drowned in the pool, would you fill it in?"

"If someone killed them-self in your garage via car / carbon monoxide, would you sell your house?"

If the answer is yes to both of these then you are dealing with someone that likes to use inanimate objects as scapegoats. If the answer is no then they are using this situation as an excuse to vent anti-gun sentiments. I'd adjust my reaction accordingly.

Touchy subject. I'd avoid drawing lines in the sand right now and try to focus on understanding the emotional reactions better.



.

 

[JohnBT]

If a close family member wanted it gone, I'd get rid of it. Sort of a one veto is all it takes thing and a so sorry to the family members who want to hang on to it for whatever reason.

It is after all, just a gun. You don't need a gun (or any other object) in order to keep the good memories alive.

I sort of wanted the S&W revolver my cousin killed himself with in '74, but my uncle had already disposed of it. It had been his father's gun. I got over it.

John

 

[Loosedhorse]

deceased's sister wants the gun destroyed.

Stock answer: an inanimate object is not to blame for the suicide.

However, I think it's not that simple. Some people honestly (though irrationally) believe that bad karma (if you will) can reside in an object. Telling them that's not so changes nothing (like trying to teach a horse French).

does anyone see an added danger of keeping this particular gun around?

Sure, if there's another person in the family with access to the gun and suicidal tendencies, and if that person believes the gun has a power or karma to cause suicide. The key word in the previous sentence is "access," since it is the only controllable variable (though imperfectly controllable).

Whose wishes should be honored

Whoever owns the pistol.

kept secret

Absolutely not. Condescending "secrecy"--with its attendant dishonesty--will just make the family rift worse. It in no way honors the deceased's memory, or respects the sister.

(Personally: I'd sell the gun. It could never have as many good memories as bad for me.)

 

[KennyTHX]

I don't think anyone is more at risk with the gun around than if it weren't around. Predisposition to suicide and the methods of it are pretty wide ranging.

I don't know though, to me it seems like what to do amongst your own family is up to you though. I mean, you're the only one that knows how practical it is to keep it a secret. I mean, I could pry for details about why she doesn't want it around, if it's just that particular gun, is it trauma related or politically motivated, etc. Ultimately though you're the only one that can make those assessments though.

All I can say, is if it's trauma related, you should talk to her more about it and maybe convince her to get some type of counseling or something. Just destroying the gun, getting rid of it, or keeping it a secret won't help that side of things.

If it's something else, maybe just talk to her about it and help her understand that it's just as important as a positive reminder to other members of the family as it is a negative reminder to her. Family members need to sacrifice and compromise, so I think it should really be between your family who needs to compromise.

 

[OARNGESI]

id give it back or get rid of it id never drive a car someone was killed in buy a house someone died in or a gun someone killed them self with thats just bad karma

 

[moxie]

Ditto what John said in #3 above.

 

[FadingSwordsman]

I have a single shot .22 that my great grandfather used to kill himself with. It was a bit off putting to handle it and know what it was used for at first, but it's not the gun's fault.

Living conditions matter here. If the cousin is in a household which the sister owns, I would say she has some say in the matter. However, the deceased's father should have more say as far as what happens with the gun (As would the mother)

If the cousin isn't living with the father/mother/sister, is the gun gone enough for the mother's hopes? I would say, if it is, then it should stay how it is.

There isn't, IMO, a higher risk of suicide. Pretty typically a lot of the study results are caused by genetics (Clinical depression, etc.) and not some weird mass suicide hysteria lemming thing. Inheriting my great grandfather's gun didn't make me more likely to commit suicide, I actually see it as a reminder of why I shouldn't do so.

 

[Alec]

OARNGESI:
id give it back or get rid of it id never drive a car someone was killed in buy a house someone died in or a gun someone killed them self with thats just bad karma

Surely you mean to add "that I know of" to those statements? Unless you buy all of those items new. The fact is, you never know the story of the object in question, especially something like a house. Even if you met the sellers, you can't expect them to inform you that Gram died in her sleep two weeks ago.

 

[DAP90]

I would ask your family members this question: "If someone drowned in the pool, would you fill it in?"

"If someone killed them-self in your garage via car / carbon monoxide, would you sell your house?"

Don’t ask them that.

Logically, we all know that the gun isn’t to blame, but it is perfectly reasonable to not want to be reminded of the event. I suspect many people would sell their house and move after a tragedy occurred there.

It’s just a gun. There are many more like it that won’t produce a strong emotional reaction from family members.

 

[LeonCarr]

Guns don't kill people. Keeping it might save a life someday.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[Yo Mama]

I fully believe in a Karma attached to guns and knives. I personally would want the gun gone, but wouldn't blame guns for the action an individual took to end their life.

 

[rondog]

Refinished and with different grips, it could be claimed to be a different one that the other was traded in on. Just sayin'......

 

[22-rimfire]

The bad karma thing is somethng many people believe in. If the family (owners) want the gun gotten rid of, then I would respect their wishes. Getting rid of the firearm does not necessarily mean taking a cutting torch to it, but that is also up to the owners.

Mental problems do run in familes and as a result suicides can "run" in families.

 

[RX-178]

The father of the deceased inherited the gun, and gave it to the younger cousin.

The younger cousin owns the gun now. If he wants to keep it, then he has every right to.

Q.E.D.

 

[InkEd]

Give it to the cousin amd be done with it.

 

[Sam1911]

1. Whose wishes should be honored, the uncle's or the deceased's sister's?

Whoever owns the firearm now.

2. If the gun stays, should future shooting activities involving the suicide gun within the (extended) family be kept secret from the sister to avoid re-traumatizing her?

I would not hide the fact, but I'd also make no deliberate mention of it or bring it to her attention.

The gun didn't do anything to anyone. It has no anima. It is an object, a tool. If it causes the owner grief, the owner should dispose of it. If it helps the owner relive good times, or just enjoy an afternoon shooting, then it should be kept.

If someone else has troubles and wants it destroyed, they can offer to pay fair market price (or whatever the asking price would be) to own that gun and do whatever with it the wish.

Karma and bad-ju-ju are nothing more than devices folks use to pretend they've transferred responsibility for their own thoughts and actions, or the thoughts and actions of others they can not accept, into an inanimate object. A coping mechanism, used by religions and societies for time immemorial. The present owner should not feel in any way compelled to participate in the mind games someone else chooses to play with him- or herself.

(Oh, and definitely get any biological crud off of it. That stuff is VERY corrosive.)

 

[dodge]

I have one that my mother's uncle shot himself with. My father used it for deer hunting from the time of the suicide til he quit hunting due to health reasons. After he passed away I inherited it and although I haven't shot a deer with it yet someday I will. I still take it out now and then and enjoy it. I just don't think about it came into my immediate family.

 

[Walkalong]

It is none of our business. It is a family matter for them to decide.

 

[valnar]

It's completely irrational that they want the gun gone.....but get rid of it anyway. Sell it and buy something else if you want, but no need to tear up the family over it.

 

[jdh]

The cable show "Dead Man's Gun" didn't help to calm peoples irrational fear of inanimate objects.

It boils down to which is more important, family harmony or holding on to reminder of a dark day in the life of another?

 

[RX-178]

There's no reason to think that pressuring the current owner of the gun to get rid of it isn't going to tear the family apart also.

 

[snubbies]

Dump It

I vote for getting rid of it. Remembering the suicide is bad enough but keeping th intrument of death around also is out of the question

 

[dprice3844444]

is it a ww2 45? who made it?

 

[SwissArmyDad]

Just a gun.

I'd rather have the relationship with family members. Much more important.

If the parents of the young man who was given the gun don't want it in the house, there's no discussion to have.

What happens to the gun is a trickier question, unless the deceased willed them to someone specific.

For example, all my guns would be left to my wife, unless I picked one or two to go to my kids. She would have sole authority as to what to do with them. (sell, keep, gift,etc)