should I go class 3?

[gunsmith]

I am a single guy and I have an old pick up and a place to rent I can afford.
I am due to get 10,000 $$ soon and wondering if I should go ahead and buy machine gun like I've allways wanted to.
I've found a MAC10 for five grand and an UZI for 8, I really want a MP5 or a cool HK rifle in .308 like a G93 or 91 but those are at least 15 grand...
the thing is I dont have any other rifles and the practital side of me says get a good AR15 & a DSA in .308 and use the rest of the $$ on trigger work and upgrades and ammo.
the MAC sure aint no pretty gun and other then spewing out rounds doesn't seem like it would be all that accurate. But I've allways wanted a class three...
but being that I only own two handguns shouldn't I buy SHTF guns instead, like a shotty and a guide gun and the others I mentioned?
....ps I thank God I have these problems!

 

[Willyboi]

One accurate shot is better than 30 unaccurate shots... I would go with the AR-15's, M1A's, and support America with whatever you buy!


Willyboi
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6

 

[Wiley]

Were it I, instead of MAC, AR, UZI, etc., I'd be looking at NYSE and NASDAQ for a few years. Unless it is truly disposable income.

 

[redneck2]

Full autos turn money into noise in a HURRY. I have several friends that have them. These guys have rather high disposal income and still they run out of money

You may be able to get the $$$ back you invest in the firearm, but you'll never get the $$$ back you spend on ammo. Are you REALLY willing to drop $5-10 every trigger pull? Also, unless you have your own land it's harder and harder to find a place to shoot them.

I'd get a good AR and invest in a progressive reloader and shoot more

Were it I, instead of MAC, AR, UZI, etc., I'd be looking at NYSE and NASDAQ for a few years. Unless it is truly disposable income.

This is excellent advice. Take $180 and subscribe to "The Market Timer" at www.bobbrinker.com. This guy has averaged something like 40% annual return over the last 18 years. I don't have a financial calculator to figure it out. All I know is 10k invested 18 years ago is worth 105k now. I have some friends that inherited over 300k 8 years ago. It's all gone and they're going to file bankruptcy this month.

10k may seem like a ton of money for someone that's not used to having extra, but lots of people make more than that every month and there's no problem spending every cent if you want

 

[hillbilly]

I am not a Class III shooter.

However, I did read an interesting line about Class II realities.

The line said "The happiest day of a Class III owner's life is the day he buys his first Mac. The second happiest day of his life is the day he sells his first Mac."

Apparently, Macs look a lot cooler than they really are.

hillbilly

 

[Godfather]

I've never liked the look or apparent feel of a MAC. I would go with some type of Krinkov or folding AK, so you get a rifle and a pistol experience.

 

[boofus]

$5,000 is a bit steep for a MAC. I usually see them for $3000 for NIB SWD M11/9 or M10/9 and maybe $3500 for NIB Powder Springs M10/45

Used Uzis go for around $5,500. A pristine NIB one might go for $6,500-7,000. NIB micro-uzis might go for $8,000.

If you don't mind spending the whole wad on a gun, then registered receiver M16 is the way to go. It can be a full length rifle, short carbine, and 9mm SMG, and .22LR econo-blaster by just swapping a few parts. Definitely one of the more popular NFA guns because of its versatility. You can get one of those for around $9000-9500.

Ya know, the selector switch DOES rotate into the semi-auto position. Stick a match grade barreled upper on it and it will be more accurate than a normal AR-15.

 

[harvester of sorrow]

I say go for it...you actually have a fair number of options open to you. First of all, you can get an SWD-made Mac (they made the most/cheapest) for 3k all day long, and for less without much difficulty. Macs are the Chevy small block of the machinegun world, in that there are a ton of companies making aftermarket mods for them. In 9 millimeter, I prefer the Mac 11 to the Mac 10 because it's smaller, and Mac 11s can be sped up to about an 1800 rpm rate of fire w/ a Mac Jack and then slowed down to a more manageable 600 rpm rof or so, equipped w/ a red dot sight, and compete with (and beat) MP5s, M16/9mms, Thompsons, etc. in subgun competitions. It would be difficult to buy something more fun than a Mac for $2800.

However, you can also get non-Colt M16s like SGW, Sendra, or Frankfort Arsenal guns for 9000-10500 pretty easily. M16s are the absolutely most versatile machineguns out there. Different uppers, different calibers, and different barrel lengths are all easily obtainable, and spare parts and magazines are cheap and plentiful.

Your last choice, if you really want the HK, will cost more, but might be worth it to you. Transferable HK sears are available for 10-11k, and there are a number of "cheaper" HK clones out there that can be made sear-ready. I would think that with an extra 4500-5000, you could have a sear-ready PTR-91 (G3), Vector v93 (HK33), and a Special Weapons/Bobcat MP5 clone. Then, you could move the sear from one gun to another as you desired. A benefit of this would be that you could start with one and then buy additional hosts for the sear as funds became available. If you were to go this route though, I would point out that only the G3 mags are what I would call cheap, the Hk33 and Mp5 mags are much more pricey.

www.subguns.com is an excellent place to look for more information and for machineguns and accessories for sale. Check out the nfa message board and the archive, some of your questions may already have been asked and answered.

 

[farscott]

... a place to rent I can afford.

That sentence did it for me. Use the $10K as a down payment on a house before buying NFA weapons. Owning is a lot better than renting.

One other factor: You need to inform the BATFE when you move if you have NFA weapons, so it is best to be in a place you plan to stay for a few years or more.

 

[boofus]

Use $6k on a down payment on a house in the country and $3k on a MAC to shoot there.

 

[halvey]

This is excellent advice. Take $180 and subscribe to "The Market Timer" at www.bobbrinker.com. This guy has averaged something like 40% annual return over the last 18 years. I don't have a financial calculator to figure it out. All I know is 10k invested 18 years ago is worth 105k now.

Suuuuuurre! There's more money in selling books and tapes than in any market.

 

[c_yeager]

Were it I, instead of MAC, AR, UZI, etc., I'd be looking at NYSE and NASDAQ for a few years. Unless it is truly disposable income.

Compare the performance of the stock market to the price of the permanently limited quantity of civilian-legal Class 3 firearms.

That $5000 Mac-10 he is looking at originally sold for around %5-%10 of its current price.

 

[Chipperman]

Only you can decide if getting into NFA weapons is worth it to you.

My bit of advice is to get what you want if you do it.

Don't get the Mac. If you like Uzis, then get that. They are great guns and have a lot more room to appreciate in value. The MP5 is king, but they are a lot more money. I will never sell mine. If you really want an MP5, and this is going to be your only realistic chance at getting one, then take out a small personal loan for the extra to get one.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Ditto what Chipperman said. Get the gun you want, not the cheapest one around. If you want an MP5, scrape up some more money and get one. If you don't, you will always regret it.

 

[shooting time]

Don't get the mac get the MP5 I love mine .never fails to function

 

[The Grand Inquisitor]

As said above, it may be a good idea to get the MP5 that you want, shoot it a little bit, wait until the price goes up, and then sell it off to parlay it into another NFA firearm and so on and so on.

In all honesty I think you should really take at least half of this 10K and invest it in a safe place (Ginny Maye fund...ect) and then take the rest of the money and put it into the things that you really need, like a house. In the end, having a house of your own or a reliable car is significantly more important than a gun that spits out a $10 bill every time you pull the trigger.

 

[Smurfslayer]

I've heard you only go around once...

Not sure how true it is...

FWIW, I have an SWD M10 .45. Didn't work NIB, seller replaced bolt, and all was right in the world. HK sighted upper went south, took a few trips to figure out I ought to try the stock upper as a 'control', but that worked.

Advantages of the Mac: Parts available, inexpensive. Simple design, fairly easy to work on, even for ol' 10 thumbs Custom parts available -

HK sighted upper receivers, caliber change uppers - 45 - 9mm, but not the other way around. Rail uppers for red dots, etc. Carbine uppers, etc.

Some parts address known weaknesses of the breed. For example, the sights on the Mac10 SUCK HUGE. Hence, the uppers with MP5 sights, rails etc.

The stock on the Mac also sucks. I went to a side folding UZI stock.

Magazines: Lots of Macs use inexpensive grease gun mags...

Disadvantages of the Mac: It "oozes 'ghetto' , every single part on it is cheaply made. In fact, made as cheaply as possible!

My thoughts on the Mac? Get 2 Or, get 1 in .45, buy a 9mm upper and remaining parts to convert to 9mm. Get lots of mags, stock, etc. and have at it.

If you want to go class 3, major caliber... M14's just over 10 or thereabouts, FAL a little more.

for .223 / 5.56, I just recently wrangled with that hear wrenching decision. I narrowed my interested choices down to a few candidates.

AC556 Ruger
M14
FN FNC
Barrett M82 .50 BMG semi

Knocks on the ruger were it's "perceived" inaccuracy as compared to the AR series. I am not a fan of the M16 / AR. There were too few ranges that would let you shoot the .50. The M14's when I looked were just over 5 figures and up. This left the argument between the Ruger and the FNC.

Both 5.56mm, both have 3 round burst, semi & full. Both have folding stock models, ruger takes ruger mags, FNC takes STANAG - (NATO) AR-15 mags. Both about equal in price. FNC is obviously more of a combat tool, whereas the AC is more of a fun tool.

I decided on the FNC.

Full auto prices are not going down any time soon. 2 years hence from buying the Mac, they're up $1K from what I paid. The FNC's are noticeably creeping up by a couple hundred from what I paid a couple months back.

PP was right about turning money into noise. I'd recommend getting a caliber you can easily and inexpensively reload - 9mm, .45ACP, .223 etc...

I say do it, but don't spend all of your money on it...

 

[LeadPumper]

Now I have a machine gun Ho, Ho, Ho...

Machine Guns aren't cheap. But you already knew that. Feeding them isn't cheap either, but you knew that too.

But did you know that you can get conversion kits for some guns that will allow you to shoot FA .22 in them?

For instance, I have this IMI FA UZI Model A with a Flemming Deluxe conversion and a Vector .22 kit. I also have a closed bolt I can drop in for a faster rate of fire and greater first shot accuracy (in SA). There are alos kits for making a registered receiver UZI into .40, .45, .41 (I even think someones woking on .50)

If you're going to drop the money into an NFA (and only you can decide if it's worth it), consider getting what you really want. I wanted something I could use at my local range (they only allow subguns), so for me, geting an M16 would be a waste. And with the .22 kit, I can shoot for hours without taking out a second mortgage. Is it worth it? Sometimes. I look at the UZI some days and wonder what I could buy with the money if I sold it.

But then I do a full mag dump, and I know I won't ever get rid of it.

I bought this used two years ago with a Ceiner can for 4K.



-LeadPumper

 

[hso]

Gotta go with the "responsibel money" crowd here and say invest.

If you know you can get a brilliant deal on an NFA weapon that will appreciate in value quickly and that you can (and will) sell it before someone gets in office that will ban even transferrable weapons go ahead and invest in the NFA weapon.

OTOH if you don't have a crystal ball or an advisor that you know turns machineguns into profits on a regular basis you should put almost all that money into a property or mutual fund that will allow you to face old age independently instead of as a burden on the rest of us ants.

 

[Smurfslayer]

on the .22's

Just a comment of three on the .22 conversions. The Small Arms Review did a review about 2 months ago on the .22 conversions available. Several by Ciener. The Mac10 however has a kit by Fleming aka Subcal.

What

a

Piece

of



Yeah, some people swear they are the bees knees. Most people confess that there are 2 known issues.

1: Magazines are the 10/22 style, meaning most of them are junk
2: The kits more often than not require some <ahem> tinkering to make operational.

Mine was one such.

YMMV

 

[Zrex]

Ack - your prices are a little high. Check out these sites for better (or worse) deals:

Subguns NFA Ads

Sturmgewehr NFA ads

Hope those links help.

 

[444]

Those prices are way too high.
You live in Nevada, I can show you an UZI tomorrow morning for $6400 in a retail gun shop in Las Vegas.

Since you asked, I personally wouldn't buy a machine gun. The best investment you can make right now in Nevada is real estate, and buying your own house should be a first priority.
I own a submachine gun. I always wanted one also. I bought it and it didn't do anything for me at all. I am not going to sell it, but I haven't fired it in over a year.

 

[MudPuppy]

I was recently in a similar situation but couldn't justify splurging like that--it felt too irresponsible.

It looks fun, but the fellas at a local pistol range that bring their mac and uzi FA out and squirt 'em around loudly, shooting the heck out of the berm while I plink steel with the 1911 target after target make me feel like I made the right choice for me.

I'd love an MP-5 though...maybe we'll get that 86 law repealed? I'd do if I was President. (just sayin')

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Now I have a machine gun Ho, Ho, Ho...

Me too.

If you want an MP5, buy one. No regrets!

 

[Slimjim]

Get an american 180, or a registered m16 lower. That way you can go full auto .22 LR and dont have to spend a fortune on ammo.