Side charging AR build

[Natkenyon]

I am new to ARs and it sounds like a good hunting, defense, and all around kind of gun.
I am wanting to build an AR with a side charging handle with most likely this upper.

http://www.largrizzly.com/web/guest/ops-4-uppers

I was wondering what other parts do you need to get to build an upper?

I know you need a barrel, lower, upper, stock, grip, but as to everything else I don't know anything about them.

Also since this is a side charging AR are any AR parts non-compatible?

 

[redbullitt]

Depends on what kind of side charger set up you go with. A smith can easily mill out a side of your standard receiver, drill, and put a side charging handle in. HOWEVER, it will reciprocate when you use the weapon. May or may not be for you. Otherwise, dpms and most all the other makers, as i am sure you have seen, all make dedicated side chargers.

I do not have a side charger, but I did look at them pretty hard before buying what I have. I do not see why most of the parts will not interchange. The carrier and things like that are probably going to be different, but all the lower parts, stock, foregrip, and barrel and accessories should be just fine.

I am sure someone who knows a little more about them will chime in before long.

 

[kwelz]

I guess the question is why do you want to build such a monstrosity?

 

[Natkenyon]

If I go with one of the three uppers in the link what parts would I need in addition (sorry I should have clarified).
I also searched the DPMS website for "side charger" and the three uppers in the link was all that popped up. I only know of two or three other manufacturers of side charged uppers.

And I had wanted a side charger because it seems less inconvenient than a regular charging handle, so mostly my personal preference.

 

[Dreamcast270mhz]

I guess the question is why do you want to build such a monstrosity?

Because the AR15's handle is in an awkward position, and some people find a side charging handle easier to operate, plus, there is no question as to if the bolt is in battery compared to the stock handle.

 

[Evil Monkey]

I hate the idea that this upper and BCG combo is proprietary, but it is appealing.

I like shooting off of both shoulders and understand that the normal charging handle is extremely awkward for lefties.

 

[Zerodefect]

Because the AR15's handle is in an awkward position, and some people find a side charging handle easier to operate, plus, there is no question as to if the bolt is in battery compared to the stock handle.

Ok. But those are both easy to overcome.

I don't like side chargers cause they leave a big hole in the side of my reciever that packs up with snow and mud. Tree branches allways seem to find that opening as well.

 

[jmorris]

I have played with a few while thinking about one for 3 gun and decided to stick with the original design. The reciprocating handle is just plain and simply a bad idea and allows another entry spot for crap to get into your action. If I had one it would be the JP version.

 

[jmorris]

Here is the JP. Its out of the way when you don't need it, stays put while shooting and doesn't look like an after thought.

 

[Tirod]

There are others to consider.

http://www.americanspiritarms.com/p...er_Upper_Receiver_without_Carrier-124-12.html

And CMMG is making a fully ambidextrous upper with side plates to allow just about anything. They are already considering a side charger reciprocating insert.

There are two styles to consider, reciprocating or non. Charging handles fixed or screwed into the bolt carrier have a reputation for hitting door jambs or other things. Some are known to be weak, the BCG wasn't designed to have threads in it. They all are proprietary because of whatever method used by the handle to engage the BCG.

Precision shooters like these monstrosities because they can right hand charge the bolt on the firing line when trussed up in a shooting jacket and target sling. Left hand chargers offer the tactical shooter the ability to charge the bolt while keeping their shooting finger in close proximity to the trigger.

For the tactical shooter, that's a very small percentage of situations. The AR platform has a bolt hold open, and live fire shooters don't go in harm's way with an empty chamber. The AR is loaded in the wire, BCG back, mag into the receiver, and the hold back button slapped to chamber. When emptied, the bolt is back to charge the weapon again.

So, to ask, when is it really that common to need a side charger? I couldn't come up with a situation for me as a recreational shooter. I've had them as part of other weapons, not really that much a priority, and haven't been given one situation in my 22 years of Reserve training or duty, Infantry or MP.

That doesn't mean I would spurn one if it was already part of the design, I appreciate the incremental improvement in ergonomics. Newer gun designs all seem to include it. BUT - at the cost of adding it to the AR, another $150 - $200 isn't justified to me. If I hunt, I charge the weapon in a parking lot. For HD, many keep them already loaded RTG. Trunk gun, same - charged, on safe.

For me, it came down to $$ per %% usage. It didn't make the money justification. Shooting precision, it would be a very practical aid. Already on the upper, at a decent price point, I was prepared to spend the money. Balanced as a get it or buy an optic - you very well could be served better spending the money on a better grade red dot.

Attach the charging handle to the standard BCG gas key and I'll look again. It CAN be done, question is will someone do it and forgo the extra money-making opportunity of forcing the buyer to purchase a special BCG, too.

 

[Justin]

Because the AR15's handle is in an awkward position, and some people find a side charging handle easier to operate, plus, there is no question as to if the bolt is in battery compared to the stock handle.

While I would generally consider left-side charging handles to be a plus, they're certainly not mandatory.

I've never had an issue with the location of the AR charging handle. It's a rare event that the charging handle is ever touched while shooting. On top of that, cutting a slot in the side of the receiver so you can jam a reciprocating bolt handle on the gun is a tremendously bad idea for a couple of reasons; including opening up the internals to dirt and dust, and making the gun more inconvenient/harder to shoot from odd or unorthodox positions like rollover prone.

If you're dead set on a left-side charging handle on an AR, get the one that JP makes. I've handled them and, like everything JP makes, they're competently conceived, and well constructed.

 

[mgregg85]

I thought about going with the side charging upper when I was building my rifle and decided against it. While shooting an ar-15 you won't even have to use the charging handle after your first loading unless there is a malfunction that you need to clear or if the bolt catch fails. Neither of those situations have been a common occurrence in my limited experience. Having realized that I decided that I couldn't justify the added cost/problems that might come with a side charging upper.

This modification always reminds me of those people who say that the forward assist is unnecessary. Some of them even advocate using that little depression in the bolt carrier to close the action. I'd like to see someone do that bare handed after firing a few magazines, i'm thinking their thumb would be nicely burnt and they'd still have a rifle that was out of battery.

 

[ants]

You need:
Lower receiver,
lower receiver parts group,
barrel and barrel nut,
gas tube & pin,
gas block or front sight base,
handguards and delta assembly
or free floating fore end,
buttstock.

Sights are your choice.

Depending upon your selections,
there may be other small parts.
For instance, if your barrel muzzle is threaded
you need a flash hider or thread protector.

It is clear that you haven't done much searching.
Info on AR build is everywhere.
And parts sellers generally have a exploded diagram
and parts list for you.

 

[Justin]

Unless you're willing to spring for something like the JP setup, side-charging handles on the AR just aren't really worth it.

 

[Natkenyon]

I don't see myself in a position where the side charging handle would be much of issue because of it being an larger hole where dirt and etc can get in.
I was actually going with the side charger on the right.
I was thinking of something like the Scar or Sig 556 but their aren't ARs and you can't replace a lot of the parts.
If I were to get this and everything else I need what would be the cost? I didn't think the side charger would mean that much more money.

 

[Robert]

I don't see myself in a position where the side charging handle would be much of issue because of it being an larger hole where dirt and etc can get in.
I was actually going with the side charger on the right.

Come the the Tactical Rifle Match in Pueblo West. You will have dirt and dust in place you didn't know you, or your rifle had.

 

[jmorris]

Come the the Tactical Rifle Match in Pueblo West. You will have dirt and dust in place you didn't know you, or your rifle had.

The TX state multi gun was the same way this year

 

[Natkenyon]

Well let's assume I'm not going into desert-like conditions with this gun.

I didn't want to start an opinionated thread, just was wondering what you would need and the eventual price.

 

[ants]

Lotsa AR rifles go to the range two or three times per year, not into a desert storm.

Total cost is like asking the total cost to built a street rod out of a classic car. It depends entirely upon what you want to put into your build.

In addition to your upper reciever and bolt carrier, total parts cost would be between $500 and $800 for fairly common parts, although you could possible save a couple hundred if you find excellent used parts or a smokin' deal on something here and there. If you want to get Noveske parts and all sorts of trick stuff, budget two or three times that.

 

[mc223]

Non reciprocating


http://americanspiritarms.com/rifle_articles/ar-15-side-charger.pdf

 

[Tirod]

I'd like to see someone do that bare handed after firing a few magazines, i'm thinking their thumb would be nicely burnt and they'd still have a rifle that was out of battery.

And if you had actually handled a bolt carrier group after a couple of mags, you'd know it can be done bare handed. BCG's have been recorded with IR temperature guns, and they only get about 45-50 degrees hotter than a non DI gun. Not even enough to boil water, which is why Slip lube works - it's water based and doesn't boil off.

A gas piston on the barrel, don't. It can get over 650.

As for the FA, it's about as useless a modification as I have ever seen on the M16. I never used it in 22 years, I never needed to charge a weapon silently, and those who suggest that you can use the cutout can't explain how they got out of the wire unloaded when there buddy, team leader, squad leader, and patrol leader all did their checks before going out.

Huge lack of knowledge about the AR and SOP's out there.

All that contributed to my decision - what was I getting for $300 in a side charger upper, as compared to a $48 blem from LAR Grizzly. It was cheaper even with a FA installed. If I get a suppressor for hunting, I can pull it and put in a exhaust vent to reduce gas. Then that lump might have a real purpose.

Side charger? Not so much. FA? Not Stoner's idea, not part of the original, just a tacked on concession to please old school Garand pattern shooters who needed to kick their bolts open and closed. Dirty pistons do that.

 

[taliv]

side charging handles are useful in two circumstances:

1. 3gun

2. dedicated suppressed weapon where you disable the DI and basically convert it to a straight-pull bolt for manual cycling

 

[SentinelStrategic]

People who have issues with charging handles typically have the wrong charging handles. If you go buy a BCM Gunfighter, or just modify your current handle with a large handle, like the Badger offerings or similar, it gives you a lot to work with and a lot of versatility. Any time you introduce a major modification into a weapon system that was not designed for that modification (i.e. a side charging handle onto a receiver of an AR, and the resulting bolt modifications needed), you increase the propensity for malfunction. Further, you have to change the design of the upper receiver, reducing the strength and rigidity of the receiver even more.

If you're a "couple times per year"/occasional use shooter, then it's certainly a viable custom option to make your rifle unique. However, if you plan on moderate to heavy use, it's a poor option that will prove problematic. You're either introducing more moving parts that can malfunction, or increasing openings which can allow more detritus to enter the receiver. If one doubts the poor viability of a side charging handle on the AR platform, one only needs to ask why no one in the military-to include SpecOps-uses an AR with one. They exist on other weapon systems, but those systems were designed for them; the AR wasn't.

And for the record, you can still have a bolt out of battery with a side charging handle. The only way to be completely sure the bolt is in battery is by visual inspection. Hence why forward assists are handy and necessary.

 

[Tirod]

I've heard that 3 gunners sometimes use special handles for rapid charging uppers. There certainly are a lot on the market, the major advantage is to leave the trigger hand on the grip, and charge with the palm of the support hand.

With the AR, you must break cheek weld to do it. With a side charger, not. However, it still goes back to why charge? A working bolt hold open means changing mags and slapping the button, all with the support hand. The trigger hand never leaves the grip, and a cheek weld remains uninterrupted.

Add in the use of 45, 60, or 100 round magazines, as Surefire certainly upped the round count available before a mag change. Even less mag swaps now.

I think what we're seeing with non reciprocating handles is just a bit of the FNFAL added onto a gun that never needed it. If I had the bucks, I'd certainly could build a piston upper AR with side charger, and folding stock. Which would basically make it a FNC carbine.

The Swedes are using those, if that or a SCAR, ARX, XCR, or ACR appeals, go for it. They all have some kind of charging handle on the bolt, too. Best one so far is Beretta's ambi handle that can swap in 30 seconds from side to side, the upper has slots on both.

Dirt ingress doesn't seem to bother FN, Berreta, Remington, or Robinson. Slots galore.

 

[jmorris]

I didn't want to start an opinionated thread, just was wondering what you would need and the eventual price.

A mill, lathe, tooling and about 2 hrs.

When you stated that you were new to AR's some of us thought our experienced opinons might be use full to you.