sidearms during WWII

[Onmilo]

Soldiers were not prevented in most WW2 units from possessing captured or individual sidearms as long as the ammo met the doctrines of warfare.
It was very common for everyone from privates on up to carry a sidearm.

My dad was a radio operator on a B17 bomber.
They were issued .45 automatics and there were M1 carbines stowed with survival gear onboard the aircraft.

Dad ditched his .45 and began carrying a Spanish made .32 acp "Ruby" pistol he won off a Frenchman in a poker game.

He figured chances were slim he would even get off the aircraft if it was shot down, and the .32 was smaller and lighter than a .45

He figured the .32 would be just perfect for putting a bullet in his head if he did make it down as the Germans had a habit of torturing then executing bomber personnel since they were none too pleased with them blowing up all the towns, factories and other Germans.

 

[sixgunner455]

My grandad was a 1st LT, 79th ID, European theater. He carried a 1911, brought home a Luger and a HiPower.

He later sold them.

 

[LibShooter]

My father served on a submarine in WWII. He said nobody carried any kind of gun while on patrol, but they had a magazine on board. 1911s and M1 Carbines were liberally handed out when they were tied up anywhere except a well guarded US base. There were a couple of Thompsons on board, too.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

He figured the .32 would be just perfect for putting a bullet in his head if he did make it down as the Germans had a habit of torturing then executing bomber personnel since they were none too pleased with them blowing up all the towns, factories and other Germans.

My apologies, I know this one is off topic but in his book “Baa Baa Black Sheep” Gregory Boyington notes that while detailed to clean up the debris from American bombing raids during his time as POW in Japan the Japanese civilians went out of their way to help the POWs doing the work. Sometimes these Japanese had just had their homes bombed to ruble and would still share what little food they were able to salvage from their homes, often risking severe beatings from the guards to do so.

 

[NM Mountainman]

Use of pistols not issued by US Army (anything other than 1911) was often prohibited.

My father was in the US Army Rangers during WWII and fought in France and Germany during 1944 until wounded in action. He was a 1st Lt and led groups doing scouting, recon, and forward observation (for artillery fire) missions. He was an expert shot with both the M1 and the 1911, and he used both extensively in combat.

He said Rangers were often allowed and/or required to carry different or extra weapons and equipment. Because many of their missions were behind enemy lines, Rangers were usually required to carry more rounds of ammo than most soldiers in the US Army. He said he allowed any of his men who wanted one to carry a 1911, but he required them to carry at least 7 loaded magazines for it in addition to an M1 (or other assigned weapon) and a full load of ammo. He said there was little point in carrying a .45 pistol in combat if you were only going to carry 3 or 4 loaded magazines. He said that, depending on the mission and conditions, about one third of his men often elected (but were not required) to carry a .45 in addition to their regularly assigned weapon.

He also gave strict orders that no one was allowed to shoot any gun or ammo which was not issued by the US Army during combat. He said this was a common rule in combat to prevent troops from being hit by "friendly fire." Soldiers in combat quickly learn to identify various types of weapons by the distinctive sounds they make when fired. (Not 100% reliable under all conditions, of course.) He said that during the confusion of combat and in conditions of poor visibility, groups of soldiers often got separated from the main group or accidentally wandered (or veered) away from their assigned positions. A soldier firing a 9mm Luger under such confusing and chaotic conditions (especially at night) invited fire from all groups of US soldiers in the immediate vicinity.

 

[KodiakBeer]

He also gave strict orders that no one was allowed to shoot any gun or ammo which was not issued by the US Army during combat. He said this was a common rule in combat to prevent troops from being hit by "friendly fire."

It may have been a common rule, but it was broken at times. My father told me that the German "Buck Rogers" rifle was commonly picked up by GI's in the Ardennes. This was a particularly brutal push in heavy forest, to shove the Germans back out of Belgium after the "Bulge". And a few years ago while researching my dads war record, I found this photo of a 30th Division GI carrying an STG44 in January, 1945.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

That's something right there, that's a really cool photo. I take it that ammo was scarce though?

 

[JFrame]

That's something right there, that's a really cool photo. I take it that ammo was scarce though?

+1

I thought that was an awesome photo also...

I guess ammo was only as scarce as the dead Germans or surrendering ones armed with them...


.

 

[MrCleanOK]

Kodiakbeer, can you shoot me a PM with a source for that photo without the red circle on it? It's a cool picture, and I'd like to have a copy of it.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk

 

[pbearperry]

My Dad was a Tanker NCO in the Phillipines during WW2.He was issued a Thompson and a Colt revolver converted to .45ACP.He said he really loved that Colt.

 

[KodiakBeer]

Here is the original unaltered photo, below. The one above has been cropped and had the contrast increased for clarity. I found it among thousands of pictures at oldhickory.org, a website devoted to the 30th Infantry Division. This is an official war photo that is copyright free, so download away.

 

[RustHunter87]

That is an awesome photo, this is a great thread, is that a tiger?? those Germans had sure had some nasty gear

hope i never see any **** like what went down in the "Bulge" its kinda funny though most of the Germans that fought in that push had just pulled out of Russia must have seemed like a vacation to them

 

[KodiakBeer]

is that a tiger?? those Germans had sure had some nasty gear

That is a King Tiger and since the photo was taken at LaGleize, Belgium, would have been one belonging to Kampfgruppe Peiper.

 

[RustHunter87]

holy crapola kodiak you know you stuff, my hats off to you sir

 

[Deltaboy1984]

My Grandpaw served in the Pacific in WW2 he said when they carried Colt or Smith 38's or 45 depending on what ship you were on when Battle Stations was called. He said he always carried a 45 as a CPO since he was given one when he made that rank by the Quartermaster.

 

[JFrame]

My Grandpaw served in the Pacific in WW2 he said when they carried Colt or Smith 38's or 45 depending on what ship you were on when Battle Stations was called. He said he always carried a 45 as a CPO since he was given one when he made that rank by the Quartermaster.

Cool...Sounds like in his case, it wasn't just a weapon, but a "badge of office," so to speak.


.

 

[KodiakBeer]

holy crapola kodiak you know you stuff, my hats off to you sir

I know a lot about the 30th Division because I put together a little family book about my fathers service so that info wouldn't be lost to the family. I also found his old discharge uniform, had it cleaned and replaced some of the medals that were lost and passed it along to my son, who absolutely treasures it. It was just something I wanted to do for my dad, who died when I was 15.

 

[Onmilo]

Pbearperry
I have a S&W 1917 revolver that was issued to and brought home by a WW2 Tank Commander.
Apparently there weren't enough .45s to go around or General Patton and his Single Action Armies had some influence on Tankers as quite a few of them seemed to carry revolvers in place of semi auto pistols.
This revolver was given to me in payment for some work I had done by the son of the Soldier.



Here is another one, a rebuilt and renumbers X-number 1911 that was carried by a Marine who survived both Okinawa and Iwo Jima.
It lay, fully loaded, under a couch for some 50+ years until he passed away and the widow sold it to me.
When I fired it with the original ammo and magazine it functioned perfectly.


This one now resides in an advance military collection.

Trunk Monkey, the Germans were not the Japanese and the Japanese were not the Germans and all sorts of strange, mean, and wonderful things happen in wartime.
The Japanese never had anyone actually invade their country during the war, women were not raped,and aother atrocites not committed on the Japanese in their home country.
Not so for the Germans and they had a lot of anger issues when they figured out they were going to lose that war,,,
It was fairly common for German civilians to beat soldiers and airmen to death with hoes and axes before regular Wermacht line soldiers could reach them and even then the safety of the captured personnel was in no way guaranteed as they were often summarily shot.

 

[Jim K]

With all the stories, told and retold, truth and, well, maybe truth, I doubt anyone will really know what all people carried in WWII. (A poster once reported that he had the Luger his father was issued in WWII - and he was in the American army!)

But the TOE's show what they were supposed to be issued. Even they can be deceiving. For example, in tanker outfits, the TOE called for tank crewmen to be issued pistols. But most pictures show them with SMG's, either Thompsons or M3's. But those were not on the TOE; they were part of the equipment for the tank, which would be shown on the TOE as just Tank, M4, or whatever. That covered all the equipment that went with the tank, from a shovel and spare track pads to those SMG's.

Lone Star, as to never having seen a picture of an officer with a weapon other than a pistol, I can only say you haven't seen many WWII pictures, as carbines quite often show up in the hands of officers as well as other ranks. Higher ranking officers were issued pistols, and others probably got them. I wonder if those carrying pistols were actually in combat. I have seen combat footage of Americans with pistols firing them at the enemy (in WWII and in Iraq and Afghanistan); usually it is impossible to tell the man's rank. But if I were in combat, I would do everything I could to get something better.

Jim

 

[wannabeagunsmith]

THis is sure some neat stuff. But if I was issued a revolver in place of an M1911 I would cry.

 

[jmstevens2]

I know a lot about the 30th Division because I put together a little family book about my fathers service so that info wouldn't be lost to the family. I also found his old discharge uniform, had it cleaned and replaced some of the medals that were lost and passed it along to my son, who absolutely treasures it. It was just something I wanted to do for my dad, who died when I was 15.

Do those unit crests on the lapels say "Cargoneek Guyoxim" Spelling could be off, but it is pronounced that way, with lions and a stripe?

 

[wildehond]

That is a purple Hart if I am not mistaken!!!! WOW!!!

Is there a place where one can read thoose stories by any chance. We owe the people that fought in the two world wars SO much.

 

[KodiakBeer]

Do those unit crests on the lapels say "Cargoneek Guyoxim" Spelling could be off, but it is pronounced that way, with lions and a stripe?

They say "Break Through", the motto of the 117th Infantry Regiment, 30th Division.

That is a purple Hart if I am not mistaken!!!!

A Silver Star, a Bronze Star, A Purple Heart and a Croix de Guerre, among others.

My fathers story is something I passed down through the family, but there are a lot of WWII stories at http://www.oldhickory30th.com/

 

[Deaf Smith]

If any of you ever heard of Charlie Askins, the Border Patrolman, gunfigher, and gun writer(!), he packed a .38 as well as a M1 Garand in the ETO. Once, with the .38, he shot a German soldier running out the back door of a house.

He dang near started a mini-war with the Germans on the other side of a river when he went sniping. There was a kind of agreement not to shoot and Askins was not in that agreement.

Deaf

 

[rcmodel]

But if I was issued a revolver in place of an M1911 I would cry.

Ever shot a 1917 S&W???
I thought not.

I sure would not cry.
I would just go scrounge up a rucksack full of half-moon clip loaded .45 ACP ammo & BEE Happy I had a real good handgun at all!

With a little practice, you can reload a 1917 with clips and keep up a pretty accurate rate of fire.

Besides that?
If one of Pattens tankers needed a handgun at all?
It was probably to blow his brains out before he burned to death trapped inside a blown-up Sherman tank.

A .45 ACP revolver would work just fine for that.

rc