Sidechaging AR Builds?

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Monkeybear

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Got my sidecharging upper on the way from forum member Anger and then its off to Cypress Armory to get it barreled. My first AR build in eight years. A lot has changed...and a lot has stayed the same.

So I'm wondering if anyone here runs a sidecharger and their opinions on them. I already know what I want and why, so this isn't about that. I'm basically just curious since I don't see very many around.
 
Which side does your's charger on? I have seen various designs with chargers on both sides. I think the only think I don't like about side charging is that it usually means a reciprocating charger.
 
Right side reciprocating. Lots of rifles reciprocate without issue. I don't expect it to be one on an AR.
 
The only problem with right-side charging that I see is that you have to use your right hand to charge the gun, which is against modern carbine technique where your right hand is always in control of the pistol grip.

Honestly, I don't see it being a big issue either way, because you only charge the gun once. Still, I think if I was going with a side charger, I'd try to find a left-side charger. Just my personal preference.

All the best with your build. :)
 
Right side charging?

Yeah... let's follow the AK model that was a point of main-complaint for decades instead of emulating the FAL, G-3, and Galil, which were all held up as points of positive contrast to the AK for decades... :banghead:

Why in the world would anyone do this unless you are left handed? :confused:


Willie

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Thanks Tuj. I think the upper is cut to allow charging on both sides so if necessary I can try it as a lefty.

Willie: Because I'm used to it. It makes sense to my eyes and hands to hold the rifle by the handguard and charge it with my right hand on the right side before shouldering it. I know the consensus is to charge with your left hand but I thought about what would work best for me decided that at the range I would have plenty of time to manipulate the weapon according to the manual of arms that is already ingrained into my head, that is the bolt is on the right and that is the point where you work the action, and that in a HD situation I can charge it as I shoulder it quicker than I can shoulder then charge with my weak hand. Maybe guys who take carbine classes do it faster the prescribed way but I don't plan on taking much beyond basic defensive rifle courses.
 
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Rationalization is a wonderful thing.... ;)

AR's are designed to have your strong hand on the pistol grip, where it's able to access all of the firing controls and to have the weak hand do the charging and magazine changes. The stock setup is pretty good for both left and right handers. Left side charging handles are optimized for right handers, right sided ones for left handers, the stock setup is best when you don't know who will be using it, and now and then someone gets goofy-handed and ends up like you. "Goofy" is used in the surfing use of the word. Goofy-foot is wrong-foot forward riding. Some folks do it... most don't. Most who do are self taught and once they are "off", they stay that way. In shooting AR's it becomes sort of the same thing, for the following reason:

With the stock system the fact is that while it offers everyone the ability to use correct technique, it equally allows someone to learn to use incorrect technique. Since both modes are available, it's easy to develop bad habits unless you are coached from the beginning.

It would be lots easier to fix bad habits than rifles, methinks... There's no need to be goofy! ;)



Willie

.
 
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"It's my personal preference because I'm most comfortable with it." is not rationalization and just because you wouldn't choose a specific rifle configuration doesn't make it wrong for me. Different options for different needs, thats what makes the AR so appealing.

I know the AR is designed a certain way but they sell a modified version that makes it a lot more similar to every other rifle I've owned that makes it work better for me and since I'm not a soldier, competitive shooter, defensive carbine instructor/student or couch ninja I'm ok with it not being 100% optimal in a firefight.
 
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^^

Personal preferences aside, performance can be measured with a stopwatch, and your way is slower and less certain than the "correct" method, which is taught universally wherever finer tactical rifle instruction is given. Correct control of an AR is done by taking the pistol grip in your strong hand and leaving it there until you are done for the day.... when I train guys I tell them that they have virtual crazy-glue between their hand and the pistol grip. Keep it there and run the rifle accordingly. That's how the platform was designed to be used.

Come out to a practical rifle shooting day and methinks you'll learn that using correct technique will be faster and more comfortable. It's a matter of taking one step back before taking five forward.

"For now" your method will work well, but you will reach a plateau of performance unless you change your technique. You might never aspire to a better level of performance... so <shrugs>... but you're limiting yourself without any reason to do so other than wanting to continue a "bad" habit pattern. "Bad" is in the context of efficiency, speed, and safety.

It's your rifle, but still... you're off on the goofy-groove... ;)


Seriously, since the rifle is in build right now, if there's a possibility of changing it over to left side handle, I would opine that this is the time to do so. You'll be happier at the end of the day.

Willie

.
 
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One a rifle gets past a certain weight, I can't hold it to my shoulder by the pistol grip (strong hand) and charge it with my offhand. I can, OTOH, keep it shouldered using my offhand because of the leverage that the left arm has.

I've always favored right side charging handles for this reason. For me to use a left side charging handle, I almost always have to drop the gun from my shoulder - and that takes more time than repositioning my strong hand.

I'm debating a side charge build so I'm interested in how this thread goes... :)
 
I get what you're saying though. I'm pretty serious about the CZ527 Carbine. It just a little bolt action but its my favorite rifle and anything I could learn that would improve my performance with it, however slightly, matters to me. Just not with the AR platform. I'm ok with a fungun that serves HD purposes. However it only serves that purpose because it conforms to my muscle memory. I think we agree in spirit, just not on this specific issue.

And pics soon, its on its way from the next city over.
 
Right side charging is mandatory in long distance shooting. The off hand is trapped by a sling and shooting jacket, the trigger hand free to move around.

It's not all about carbine use.

I don't dispute the left side charger being faster in combat use when you need to charge the weapon. The fly in the ointment of that concept is that the AR15 design already has the answer - the bolt hold open. When the last round is fired, the bolt hold open is pushed up by the magazine follower and you trade out the empty mag for a full one.

You don't need to charge anything. Just pop the hold open to release the bolt.

This is why the M16 in all it's variants hasn't needed ANY improved charging handle for combat use in 45 years. I started my career as a soldier in the 1970's being trained on a slick side M16 (A - nothing) while owning a HK91, I can say that left side charging isn't all that. I prefer the bolt hold open and not charging at all. It has rarely failed me, and everytime I joggled it to chamber the bolt too early, I was in a rush and needed to calm down.

The original M16 had a hook charging trigger in the upper sight handle, even more ambidextrous than the rear charger. I still wonder why we didn't retain it - you don't have to move your head at all to charge it. Another change by Colt to satisfy a Garand command climate.

Really all very moot, there are no zombies, there is no revolution, we aren't in the streets. It's a recreational gun for the most part, take it to the range or hunting and enjoy.
 
Sorry Monkeybear,

No matter how often I hear or read about reasons for modifying the charging system on AR rifles I never come to the conclusion it is a good idea. The advantages of the standard system always out number any presumed advantages of a change. I really think the people making these receivers are just taking economic advantage of their customer's lack of experience or irrational bias or desire to be different. Sorry Monkeybear, no offense intended. I am just being sincere in attempting to prevent others from making what I consider a mistake. The standard system works well for left and right handed users, works well using the firing hand or support hand to charge, is less prone to snagging on anything, and has proven that the need to be able to use a charging handle for mechanical leverage to close the action under adverse conditions does not warrant much concern.
 
^^ This.

But it's cool to be different... ;)



"I prefer the bolt hold open and not charging at all."

This too. The charger is for the beginning of the day and the end of the day...



"Right side charging is mandatory in long distance shooting. The off hand is trapped by a sling and shooting jacket, the trigger hand free to move around".

Point taken for those so shooting.



Willie

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Sorry Nom, I wasn't trying to convince anyone, myself included, that an AR sidecharger was the most optimal solution for a "battle" rifle. It's an option. I like it for reasons given. I think it will work well enough for those first few seconds at the range that the short comings are trivial when compared to having the rifle exactly the way I want.
 
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"No it is not. Southpaws prove this every day"


Point also taken!

Here's the new rule:

"Righties for Lefties and Lefties for Righties, except when slung, in which case it's righties for righties and lefties for lefties, except when folks prefer to do otherwise because it just plain suits 'em....."

Meaning "Enjoy your sport and do what works best for you"


Willie

.
 
FYI, that isn't what goofy-footed means. Goofy and regular are just like left and right handed but for your feet. Neither is wrong in the slightest.
 
Personally the charging handle is the one thing that I have always hated about the AR series of rifles. And the difference in charging with your strong and support hand is .25-.50 seconds at most and with proper training I would venture to say even less. That also doesn't take into account the, imho, benefits of the recepricating charging handle during the clearing of malfunctions. But all of these are just personal opinions and will obviously not work for everyone.
 
I'd love to have a non-reciprocating, side-charging, WSSM based AR15 (probably 30-cal) that didn't cost several thousands of dollars to build.

Ahhhh, dreams....


Good luck with your build Monkeybear. Be sure to post up some pics when you get her done.
 
While I dont personally see the point in a side charging AR, I also see nothing wrong with a right side charger. Seriously, how difficult is it to tilt the rifle to the left and charge it with your left hand? AK guys have been doing this for over half a century, seems to work. ;) Besides, that side reciprocating charger in any flavor will greatly improve stuck live round clearing. Ive had both AR's and AK's have live stuck rounds and I have never once had to resort to cleaning rod clearing on the AK, just give that charging handle a good whack with a piece of wood (or on anything really).
 
I thought about going with a left side-charging upper but didn't want to spend the extra money. If I had more funds then I'd definitely go that route or maybe ambidextrous. But I'd NEVER opt for right side-charge because I'm right-handed.
 
I would like a precision rig with a right hand side charger. For defense, I with the current AR charging handle. Unless it has a charger further out like a Scar, I don't care for a side charger for a tactical AR.

For a precision rig, a right hand side charger is more similar to a bolt action.
 
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