Sig 229 Failure to Feed Problems

[GI_Jared]

Having some issues with my 229 the last 2 trips I made to the range. After I shoot roughly 50 rounds it starts to have some failure to feed issues. I have been using Reliant Ammo 180gr FMJ and HP ammo. I need to test the gun out with some different ammo, but I was just posting to see if anyone else has had FTF problems with a 229. I took some pics of the problem when I got back from the range.

 

[DoomGoober]

When I had something similar happen to me, it was because the follower on the magazine had a slight gouge in it which was hanging up the case and leading to FTF. Maybe take a look at that? (If you can't see it, try a different mag and see if the FTF reproduces.)

 

[texagun]

I think you answered your own question:

I need to test the gun out with some different ammo

 

[sig228]

First, yes, try different ammo. Second, is that the original factory magazine? Third, probably not smart packing it up like that at the range and transporting it. You should have cleared it. Fourth, very very nice gun.

 

[GI_Jared]

First, yes, try different ammo. Second, is that the original factory magazine? Third, probably not smart packing it up like that at the range and transporting it. You should have cleared it. Fourth, very very nice gun.

First, yes I need to try more ammo. Second, the mag in the pic is a Mecgar mag which is the company that makes the mags for sig. The problem also happens with my factory sig mags. Third, I didn't pack it up from the range this way, I just reloaded it once I got home to see if I could duplicate the problem. Fourth, thanks I kind of went a little overboard when I bought this gun.

 

[Bovice]

I've never heard of Reliant ammo. For me, that's the primary suspect. Given the large extractor, this is a new P229. If your round count is still low, as in under 100, your recoil spring could be a little too stiff and need some working in. That's not an uncommon thing with new SIG pistols.

Try some Remington UMC or Winchester white box. The ammo needs to at least be at factory power level.

To reassure you, I've never had a failure of any kind with my P229 that was the gun's fault in several thousand rounds. It'll be ok!

 

[JTQ]

I'm not a Sig guy, but if it works fine to begin with and then hangs up after a box or so of rounds, I'm wondering if you aren't putting enough lube on the pistol.

Forum moderator 9mmepiphany has posted this "how-to-lube-a-Sig" link a few times.

http://www.apextactical.com/blog/index.php/random-apex/lubrication-of-sig-sauer-pistol-rails/

 

[jackpinesavages]

Is the Reliant ammo steel-cased?


Check your magazines for being clean, and the condition of the followers.

 

[Lonestar49]

Looks like too much luving.. not good

Having some issues with my 229 the last 2 trips I made to the range. After I shoot roughly 50 rounds it starts to have some failure to feed issues. I have been using Reliant Ammo 180gr FMJ and HP ammo. I need to test the gun out with some different ammo, but I was just posting to see if anyone else has had FTF problems with a 229. I took some pics of the problem when I got back from the range.

Jared,

You got a great gun there as I have 2 earlier non-railed 229 40's with a combined total of 13k between them without any problems.. hot days or "cold days"

Couple of things I'm seeing in the pics.. It looks like you've got the rails and guides packed with gun grease - way to much from what I'm seeing along with migration of it down on your trigger just under the frame. Too much luving - luving your gun to death, smothered in lube/love IMHO with "more should be better" when it is not - it will choke your gun as fast you found out especially if temps are cold and if you're running on old dirty grease or oil combo. Your gun is dirty/contaminated along with mags most likely at this point.

Too much grease like too much oil will not stay put while the repeated forces of the cycling action occur, any over-flow will fly back and down mixing with hot spent gun powder, quickly, and this goo goes 3 places quickly.. And if left uncleaned will mix and hot-stick, once it all cools down like fly crap (and build up) - not good

1. Back and down onto each chambering bullet - thus your barrel chamber is contaminated enough to aid in what are the causes of your gun jamming as is the feed ramp becoming contaminated.

2. It goes back and "down" and with each last shot it gets your mag follower very dirty quickly along with getting inside your mags spring and interior walls from top down to about the 1/3rd the way down.. quickly

3. Also, too much grease in "cold temps" gets thick, remains thick and actually slows down all cycling timing in regards to slide.. timing off, jams occur

Not knowing what the temp was that day and what it is I'd suggest a few things..

Clean your gun - if cold, try gun oil and using a Q-tip with a couple of drops of oil on it from the center of each rail and guide, one swipe back and forward resisting the_urge that "more must be better".. it is not - as I said what isn't sticking as oil "film" does when very thin, flies back and down and simply migrates, via gravity, down until that area of too much, to start, has a film left behind which is what will work for any range session of 500 rounds or more in a day.

If you want to stick, lol, to gun grease, again, using a Q-tip with a little grease swirled on the end, center of rails, one swipe back and forward, wiping any excess off or thinning it with the other dry end of Q-tip..

Ice like, seen, sheen is all ya need.. and will keep your gun a lot cleaner, longer because none of it is flying or migrating as can be seen in your pics under the slide on the frame.. too much - "less IS more"

Mags, depending on how many rounds you've run thru them, but mags are easy to inspect, clean as you need that follower to slide up and down freely with no hang-ups that will change the angle of bullet delivery and cause feed jams

Clean gun, using right lube for Temps, be it oil or grease, thin, ice like sheen, only, with excess simply wiped thin will do the job with your Sig 229

Oil, IMO, for guide rod and spring and after blowing up your pic, I'd suggest chking extractor claw for build-up/contamination, as well, as this is another area where blow-back hits and sticks and builds up especially with grease and or combo grease and oil.. with too much here, there, wherever you use lube. "Less IS more" - believe

OMMV on less is more, but -

Let us know how the next round goes


Ls

Ps.. new gun or used and if used, how many rounds "aprox" do you think it has on it - if used and unknown round count, I'd replace return spring as well asap

 

[Blue68f100]

Clean your gun - if cold, try gun oil and using a Q-tip with a couple of drops of oil on it from the center of each rail and guide, one swipe back and forward keeping the_urge that "more must be better".. it is not - as I said what isn't sticking as oil "film" does when very thin, flies back and down and simply migrates, via gravity, down until that area of too much, to start, has a film left behind which is what will work for any range session of 500 rounds or more in a day.

NOT A GOOD IDEA Oiling a Sig like a 1911 will prematurely wear the rails. Sigs like to be run wet. If you can not see your finger print, your not using enough oil. It's ok for a CCG since you rarely will fire more than 1 mag. But for a range gun you will destroy the frame.

Check to make sure you don't have a carbon build up in the chamber. I would use a brass/copper brush on a drill to clean the chamber real good. But since this happens after about 50 rounds, I would suspect either a tight chamber or the lube you are using on the slide is not doing its job. Sig recommends TM-25b oil. Take some oil with you on your next trip and oil the slide every 25 rounds or so and see if it clears up. I use grease (syn) on my 229 mainly because here in TX we do not have to deal with cold weather. It's nothing for me to shoot 200+ per trip w/o any problems. Slide Glide is an excellent lube for use on Sig's.

If this did it early on I would have you look at the bottom of the extractor hook. If there is a sharp edge the brass will not slide under it. It's a easy fix, just stone the bottom to break the edge.

If the gun is new, may want to return it to Sig on their dime. If you do Don't clean it and tell them this only happens when the gun is dirty 50+ rounds. I would have the note with the gun and Attached to the gun for the one working on the gun. 99% of the time they will just clean the gun fire a few rounds and say no problems found. So you want to make sure the person doing the work get the correct info. Maybe hide it in the mag well.

 

[greyeyezz]

Sigs like to be run wet.??

A Sig should run 100% bone dry, dripping with oil, or slathered in grease.

 

[luv2carry]

Hello Everyone--brand new kid on the block. I will never proclaim that I'm a gun expert by any stretch of imagination. However, after spending 31 years in the military you could say I've spent a lot of time down range. Anyway, I have many guns of all sorts especially pistols and revolvers and shoot everyone except one comemorative S&W model 626. One of my favorites is my Sig Sauer 229 that I purchased 20 years ago, same picture as shown on this thread. This gun has never misfired or jammed and trusr me it has seen thousands of rounds, mostly federals and those I reloaded. Key is to clean well after use with little oil on the slide and barrell. Happy shooting!

 

[Coyote3855]

Over on the Sig forum, they recommend running them wet (greased, actually), especially aluminum frames. I'm new to Sigs in the last year, a 225 and a 2001 220 single stack. I run them wet and have no feeding problems at all. greyeyezz, you own any Sigs? I agree than any gun should run however, but I usually follow the maker's recommendations for cleaning and maintenance.

 

[greyeyezz]

I'm on my third. I keep mine well lubed but they shouldn't need to be 'wet' to run 100%

There's been some problems with the newer P229's

Thanks for referencing our efforts to dope out this problem. We've determined that on these new-style P229's the barrel channel in the slide was machined too wide, and that there may also be a bit more barrel drop-out out of battery than we'd like to see which can aggravate this malfunction:

http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430601935/m/4400007572/p/1

 

[GI_Jared]

I just read through that whole thread on the sigforum. It appears that quite a few people have had a failure to feed issue with the new long extractor 229s. I might have to call Sig up about this and see if they acknowledge a known problem with FTF. Here is what Bruce Gray said about the issue on Jan. 20, 2012

Thanks for referencing our efforts to dope out this problem. We've determined that on these new-style P229's the barrel channel in the slide was machined too wide, and that there may also be a bit more barrel drop-out out of battery than we'd like to see which can aggravate this malfunction:

During feeding, the barrel is kicked over to the left as the extractor exerts side tension on the case base. This causes the left side of the barrel hood to bind against the left side of the breechface mortise.

I'm pursuing this problem with SIG. The guns that were sent back to SIG CS haven't worked well, since the problem is fundamental to the way the slides were made. So, as a stopgap workaround fix, we are playing with a small welded bearing on the slide side wall anterior to the breechface to help control gross misalignment of the barrel to the slide during feeding.

Our friend here kindly sent us some sample ammo to test with. We noted that some of these rounds weren't adequately taper-crimped, which in and of itself can cause all sorts of problems in marginal pistols, of course. But, marginal ammo notwithstanding, these malfunctions are directly attributable to a fault in thew slide design itself.

I'll keep everyone posted as this develops. I can say that my recent experience with sending back a couple of mis-machined SP2022's was fantastic. SIG was recepetive to us, replaced both guns instantly and corrected the underlying problem. I expect they'll fix this, too, and we'll make sure they know what the problem is.

-Bruce

Please visit OpSpecTraining.com for our 2012 class schedule.

Thanks to you, we're now in our busy season. GGI currently has a 4 to 6 week shop time for most routine service pistol custom work.

Bruce Gray, President
Grayguns Inc.
Grayguns.com / 541-468-3840

 

[GI_Jared]

I called Sig customer service up to find out if this was a known problem with the newer "long extractor 229s", the rep on the phone told me that this was not a known issue at the factory and that they would be happy to take the gun in and test it out. I told him I didn't want to waste the time at the moment and that I needed to test the gun with a variety of different ammo.

 

[Blue68f100]

Unless you got one of the senior persons that answered the phone, I dought they would admit to a problem. Do you have a different Mag to try?

btw. Bruce did the work on my 229 4yrs ago.

 

[wojownik]

Bingo GI_Jared, I was just going to post that analysis from Gray Guns as well. They think its the barrel channel being too wide.

 

[Lonestar49]

Change it cause it worked so well with the short extractors

...

I didn't even notice the new, long, extractor until after the fact. Why would they change to that when the old, reliable, short ones had no problems thru so many years and thru so many guns.. Makes me wonder

But, since it is what it is, I'd say after a clean-up of both gun and mags, new ammo, that you'll get your answer in and with the first 2 or 3 cold mags worth of shots..

IF things remain the same, Sig CS will issue you a call tag paying for the shipping of your gun to them and I'd include a copied letter by Bruce Gray and the problems and solutions he found and Sig agreed with to insure you get it fixed right the first time.

Keep us posted,


Ls