Phaedrus/69
Member
I'll confess- I'm a big fan of subguns and PCCs! They're fun as heck to shoot, cheap to feed and I can fire them at the indoor range of my LGS. The historical trend seems to be away from subguns for LE/SWAT use and more towards SBRs in 5.56 NATO. On a lot of levels this makes sense- the guns are plentiful and 5.56 is more lethal than 9mm or .45 ACP, and has a lot greater effective range.
Still, the subgun isn't completely throwing in the towel! There's been a flurry of new models of subgun and "pistols" seemingly created to be SBRd. Notable to me are the new POF PSG, the LWRC SUB45, the Scorpion and the Sig MPX.
To me the king of subguns is the HK MP5. However, changes in the market and the difficulty with importing them has made new ones basically unobtanium. There are some great clones out there with some strengths and weaknesses. The key strength is of course the roller-lock design! It allows the gun to be shot much more smoothly and accurately than a direct blowback gun. But the MP5 shows its age with the lack of rails and modern attachment points for stuff like optics, VFGs and lights.
Right now I have an HK USC Carbine. I love the gun and the plan has always been to do an UMP conversion and SBR it. But with each step towards my goal I find myself pausing to consider whether I should proceed or sell the gun and parts to finance another subgun/SBR.
The candidates:
MP5 Clone: Obviously the MP5 is a great design, and as an HK fan I'm pretty enamored of it. Price wise I think it would be cheaper to get a good clone vs finishing my UMP project (the gun was $1600, and it will cost at least another $1000 to finish it, probably more). But it would be nice to have a design with a flat top rail instead of built in sights.
Scorpion: A cool gun but probably a non-starter. As of right now, 5/31/2015, the price of the coming 922r compliance kit is unknown. But it will probably be at least half the street price of the gun. I like the form factor but it's a blowback gun, nothing really to differentiate if from the many other similar guns.
POF PSG: I like the AR-style format a lot! I think it has a lot going for it. It's American made so no 922r issues. Plenty of flexibility in laying it out and any AR hardware will fit. On the down side it too is blowback operated.
LWRC: This one is seriously giving me goosebumps! It takes UMP mags and runs on some kind of delayed blowback, and seems to be an advanced design. I love the form factor and the clean, uncluttered flat top rail. Did I mention it takes UMP mags?
The only DAs as I see it is the price (probably gonna be high being LWRC) and the fact that it may be a year til they come out, maybe longer.
Sig MPX: The MPX really intrigues me. I love the fact that it runs a short piston...why are there almost no DI or piston subguns out there? This should make it fast on follow up shots and very light recoiling. The design looks great; AR lay out including the charging handle. Non-reciprocating which I like. Clean layout with plenty of mounting points for optics and lights. The only thing I don't really like are the fact that mags will be expensive and in short supply. But as an HK guy what else is new? I guess I also don't know what kind of should stock options there will be. I'd like a "real stock" not just a wire stock. I would be getting a tax stamp.
What say you all, members of THR? Do I stand pat and do my UMP conversion? Get my money out of it and get a good MP5 clone? Or pick up an MPX?
Still, the subgun isn't completely throwing in the towel! There's been a flurry of new models of subgun and "pistols" seemingly created to be SBRd. Notable to me are the new POF PSG, the LWRC SUB45, the Scorpion and the Sig MPX.
To me the king of subguns is the HK MP5. However, changes in the market and the difficulty with importing them has made new ones basically unobtanium. There are some great clones out there with some strengths and weaknesses. The key strength is of course the roller-lock design! It allows the gun to be shot much more smoothly and accurately than a direct blowback gun. But the MP5 shows its age with the lack of rails and modern attachment points for stuff like optics, VFGs and lights.
Right now I have an HK USC Carbine. I love the gun and the plan has always been to do an UMP conversion and SBR it. But with each step towards my goal I find myself pausing to consider whether I should proceed or sell the gun and parts to finance another subgun/SBR.
The candidates:
MP5 Clone: Obviously the MP5 is a great design, and as an HK fan I'm pretty enamored of it. Price wise I think it would be cheaper to get a good clone vs finishing my UMP project (the gun was $1600, and it will cost at least another $1000 to finish it, probably more). But it would be nice to have a design with a flat top rail instead of built in sights.
Scorpion: A cool gun but probably a non-starter. As of right now, 5/31/2015, the price of the coming 922r compliance kit is unknown. But it will probably be at least half the street price of the gun. I like the form factor but it's a blowback gun, nothing really to differentiate if from the many other similar guns.
POF PSG: I like the AR-style format a lot! I think it has a lot going for it. It's American made so no 922r issues. Plenty of flexibility in laying it out and any AR hardware will fit. On the down side it too is blowback operated.
LWRC: This one is seriously giving me goosebumps! It takes UMP mags and runs on some kind of delayed blowback, and seems to be an advanced design. I love the form factor and the clean, uncluttered flat top rail. Did I mention it takes UMP mags?
The only DAs as I see it is the price (probably gonna be high being LWRC) and the fact that it may be a year til they come out, maybe longer.Sig MPX: The MPX really intrigues me. I love the fact that it runs a short piston...why are there almost no DI or piston subguns out there?
This should make it fast on follow up shots and very light recoiling. The design looks great; AR lay out including the charging handle. Non-reciprocating which I like. Clean layout with plenty of mounting points for optics and lights. The only thing I don't really like are the fact that mags will be expensive and in short supply. But as an HK guy what else is new? I guess I also don't know what kind of should stock options there will be. I'd like a "real stock" not just a wire stock. I would be getting a tax stamp.What say you all, members of THR? Do I stand pat and do my UMP conversion? Get my money out of it and get a good MP5 clone? Or pick up an MPX?
