Sighting In: What am I doing wrong?

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Mike T

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Apr 14, 2003
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Dallas, TX
I tried to sight in my new rifle and scope using 3 different types of bore sighters: Leupold "Zero Point;" older generation laser; and a collimator. Each one of them varied widely from the others in centering the reticle, and NONE of them got me on the paper at 100 yards.

I brought the target in to 50 yards and managed to get 1 of 6 shots onto the edge of the paper. That one gave me a clue and I was able to walk the scope into the bullseye.

The common element among all three types of bore sighters is me. What was I doing wrong? Why would the three sighters give me three different zeros?

I'd appreciate the benefit of your experience on this.

Thanks,

Mike
 
I would first look at how the scope is mounted and that the action screws are tightened. Are you using windage adjustable rings? are the rings tightened to scope and base? Is base tightened? etc...

That's just where I would start looking for a problem.
 
Bore sight questions

Zerobarrier,

I did torque the screws on the rings and attachment to the bases, but I never thought to make sure the bases are tight to the receiver. Thanks for the tip. It just may solve the problem.

Mike
 
If you were able to eventually get it zeroed, then your bases are probably fine. Still, check it if you aren't sure.

Bore sighters are usually more work than they're worth, IMO.

Look down the barrel at something 25-50 yards away, and adjust the scope so that it's "looking" at the same thing. Will definitely get you on paper at 25, and most likely on paper at 50 as well. Been doing that for years, works every time.
 
#1 throw all of the bore sight tools in the trash.

Set up a target at 50 yards, use a big sheet of paper at first. You can buy a sheet of poster board at Walmart for under 50 cents.

With a bolt rifle, remove the bolt and line up the cross hairs with the bulls eye. Look through the bore. The center of the bore will show you where the bullet will hit the target. Adjust the scope until the 2 are as close as possible, with practice you should be within 2-3 inches when you fire the first shot. I normally only fire one shot at 50 yards, and then fine tune the scope. This gets you on paper at 100 yards for the next shots and final zeroing

If you can't look through the bore it is important to use a large target. Just fire a shot and see where it hits the paper. It should be impossible to miss a sheet of poster board at 50 yards. Once you get a single hole on paper it is easy enough to measure how far off you are and count the number of clicks to get your scope pretty close.

I'm usually zeroed at 100 yards with no more than 4 shots doing this, but less experienced shooters may need a few more.
 
Start at 25, get close on windage and try to be 3/4 to 1 inch low. Walk the target out, doubling your range each time. 25-50-100-200...all should be pretty close in a bolt rifle shooting a cartridge designed for a bolt rifle. If not a bolt I would assume single shot, and then it depends on your cartridge. On something like 30-30 I would go 20-40-80-160 which is pretty much effective hunting distance.
 
I'm usually zeroed at 100 yards with no more than 4 shots doing this, but less experienced shooters may need a few more.
On this point, if you aren't confident in your fundamentals, always always always fire a three-shot group before adjusting anything. Too much ammo has been wasted by chasing a poorly-placed shot.
 
Mike,
I agree with poster #4. If you were able to "walk it in", everything is very likely tight, but double check.

Absolutely agree with poster #5 about "bore sighters" and trash cans with regards to sighting in.

However, lasers can be quite useful when swapping scopes.
I've never doubted that a laser points absolutely straight, I've just found that the rest of the body is usually not perfect enough to point true if indexed different.

I've used an inexpensive laser pointer clamped/taped to barrel to swap scopes with good success.

As for initial bore sighting, yep, useless.
 
Bore sight questions

OK, I've learned my lesson. I may not trash the bore sighters, but I won't be using them anymore. Tomorrow, I'm going to see how my 70-year-old eyes do looking do looking down a .22 caliber bore.

I don't understand why these gadgets are so popular if they work so poorly.

Thanks all for your help. Good lesson learned.

Mike
 
I had a similar problem only to find that my stock screw was loose, nothing wrong with my scope.
 
I don't understand why these gadgets are so popular if they work so poorly
Because people like gadgets, and think the "new" way must be better.

I've tried most types of bores sighters, and have mounted hundreds of scopes, and looking through the bore is still the most accurate method.

It really helps if you have a device to hold the gun immobile while you make adjustments.

If the device is portable, you can fire one shot with the crosshairs centered on the target, put the gun in the device with the same sight picture, and then just move the turrets until the crosshairs align with the POI
 
I don't understand why these gadgets are so popular if they work so poorly.
you build it, and they will come.
With proper high-pressure advertising, you will sell some.

I start with a target at 100 or more yards and bore sight the scope looking through the bore.

Then, 1 shot off a bench rest at 50 yards will usually put a hole in the target fairly close to the aiming point.

Then, I use a ruler or tape measure to find out how many inches out it is.

Then, do the math to convert the 100 yard scope clicks x two to make up for the 50 yard range..

Then move to 100 and shoot a three shot group and whip out the ruler again.
Followed by the number of clicks indicated.

It is a rare event when I can't sight in a rifle scope with less then 1 + 3 + 3 shots.
Total of 7 rounds.

rc
 
Cant really add much to the bore sighting advice, as thats how I do mine. Be sure to get behind the rifle a few feet while looking through the bore, and be sure your looking down the center by moving your head back and forth, up and down.
Keeping the rifle perfectly still on a bipod and rear bag helps, and simply adjust the scope to bring your x hairs on the object your looking at. Remember the adjustments will be backwards as you adjust, so don't be alarmed:)
 
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Get on the paper at 25 yards ... big piece of paper. Then move the group to where you want it to hit at 25 yards ... POA=POI for me. Then shoot at a 100 yard target and move the group as needed.

What many people fail to understand is the bullet seldom goes exactly where the bore is pointing. Not only that, but a rifle that will print a 1/2" group at 100 yards dead center of the "X" ring will likely have a different POI if you change bullet. Even if it's the same weight and same configuration, your POI can move several inches. My Remington 700 will print <1" all day with IMR 4350 and Hornady Interlock Spire points. When I went to a Speer Grand Slam (all else the same) the group opened up to 5-6" at 100 yards. For that bullet, I had to change powder; went H414.

The lesson to be learned: different bullets shoot to various POIs and seldom is that precisely where the bore is pointing.
 
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I don't understand why these gadgets are so popular if they work so poorly
Maybe because mine works just fine, thankyouverymuch.

My laser bore sighter has no doubt saved me a lot of ammo, time, frustration, and it's darn fast, quiet, and convenient.

1. I measured the distance to a shed 100 yards from my bedroom window.
2. At night, I just prop up at the bedroom window, put the laser on the shed, and dial the scope, dot, etc. in.
3. When I get to the range, the first shots are always on paper @ 100 yards - just takes a few shots to dial it in (no setting up closer targets, shooting, then moving the distance out, etc.).

Any time I'm futzing around with any type of sight (usually at night), I can easily dial it back in.

I'm sure I could be even more efficient if after sighting in the gun, I marked a target hanging on the wall across the house (inside, down my long hall) with the laser - then I could just use the inside the house target and laser to get even closer than my 100 yard at night method (and may get it back to true zero).

Everybody's mileage differs, but with as many various platforms / types of sights I use, I don't regret my laser bore sighter purchase a bit.

And I'm a cheap SOB... :D
 
Boresighters can work extremely well for distance zero. HOWEVER they rely on the several things - that the action, scope, and boresighter are all aligned in the same plane (usually level, but honestly you can have a 45 degree cant even and it would work, just everything would have to have the same cant); that the bore sighter is placed in the center of the barrel (which on most barrels the bore is not truly centered); and lastly that the scope is concentric to the barrel as well.

Most home boresighting units do not ensure that all three pieces are aligned properly, and this is why they frequently don't do any good. If everything isn't on the same plane, you can still get a rough zero, but I'd highly recommend starting at 25 yds and moving back once you see that you're on paper. Secondly moving between boresighters isn't going to help much UNLESS the bore is perfectly centered and the scope is perfectly concentric to the muzzle. Each sighter will sit in a different spot and so will show a different offset.

A magnetic bore sighter like http://www.amazon.com/Bushnell-740001C-Magnetic-Boresighter/dp/B001C5ZRMI are a fast easy way to get on paper at 25 or 50, and then you can refine your zero out to your choosen distance. Beyond that you'll have to step up in price to get something that will be close to dead on at say 100 yards.

-Jenrick
 
One thing I think that may not get attention, and probably doesn't matter for where I hunt is getting the scope and cross hairs level. This can be check by changing your elevation and seeing if the shot goes straight up.

I did buy a Wheeler level, not special. Could probably just replacement bubble or tiny level from the hard ware section.



I think trying to site in at 100 yards is a waste of time. 25 yards is good, less if first couple of shots are off.
 
Here's how I sight in:

Plop the rifle onto a bench rest. Put up a target at 25 yards. Look down the bore of the rifle, and make sure it is on the bullseye. Adjust the scope so it is also on the bullseye. (This is right for most bolt action rifles. If your scope is far above your bore, as in an AR15, it won't be. With my AR15, the bullet is 2" below the crosshairs at 25, 1" below at 50, and right on at 75.)

Aiming at the bullseye, fire one shot. Without moving the rifle, adjust the crosshairs so that they cover the point of impact.

Move the target to 100 yards. Fire five shots. Find the center of the group. Without moving the rifle, adjust the crosshairs so that they are 1 1/2 to 2" below the center of the group (assuming you're shooting 2700 FPS or faster rounds). How far below depends on how much above the line of sight your bullet should be at 100 yards, according to where you want your second crossing to be (usually 200 yards).

Your rifle is now sighted in. Usually, I follow this up with multiple groups, just because it's fun.

Here's how I mount the scope:

First get a tube of blue Loctite, #242, and a torque screwdriver such as the FAT screwdriver offered by several suppliers.

The front base screw is often troublesome. Temporarily put the scope base in place, and put the front screw in the hole. Turn it backward until you hear a clunk that indicates that the male and female threads are in position to just barely start to engage. Now turn the screw forward until it is firmly seated, counting the turns as you go.

Then remove the base, and repeat the procedure. If the number of turns with and without the base are equal, the screw is bottoming out on the back end of the barrel, and not holding the base in place. Grind a bit off the end of the screw so that the screw firmly holds the base, rather than bottoming out.

Now put a drop of Loctite on each base screw, and torque it in to 30 oz inches.

Put the scope in the bottom half of the rings. Put the front top ring in place, and gently tighten it. If the scope comes up off the rear ring, your rings are not aligned. Then remove the front top ring, put the rear ring in place, and gently tighten to see of the scope comes up off the front ring. If your rings are aligned, go on to the next step.

Put the scope in place and tighten the screws just enough to make sure you don't dump your scope on the floor. Move the scope forward and backward, so that your eye naturally falls in the center of the scope's "eye box", the area where the image just nicely fills the ocular lens. Make a small pencil mark on the scope next to a ring, so you can get the scope back into the same position later.

Put the rifle in a bench rest. Put a small level on a flat surface on the rifle and level it front to back. You can get little bubble levels for $1 or so and they work better than the larger ones. Now level the rifle left to right. Then go back and check your front to back level.

Now put the level on the cap over the elevation adjustment, and level the scope left to right without moving the rifle. Tighten either ring just snug enough that the scope won't move.

Assuming you have steel rings, put the other scope ring in place, put a drop of Loctite on the screws, and torque them down to 20 oz inches. Now remove the screws from the first ring, Loctite them, and torque them down to 20 oz inches.

Your scope is now properly mounted, it's positioned for comfortable shooting, you haven't put excess strain on the scope, and it won't shake loose.

It actually takes more time to explain than it does to do.
 
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Bingo!

Jenrick, you just turned the light bulb on for me. What you say makes sense and also explains why some people love the sighters and others hate them.

Denton, I'll be using your directions from now on.

My thanks to you guys and everybody else who's contributed to this thread. It sure generated more responses than I expected!

Mike
 
Oh, by the way, all the optical boresighters I'm familiar with are only supposed to be good enough to get you on paper at 25 yards. None that I know of will reliably get you on paper at 50 or 100 yards.
 
I have a Leupold sighter that projects a target grid into your scope. It has never failed to let me get on paper at 100 yards. Chambers may or may not be actually concentric to the rifle bore.

I have also had great success just looking down the barrel and then looking thru the scope and matching the two views.

And the older my eyes get the tougher it gets to match what I think I am seeing to what I end up shooting.
 
I am curious, why you say 160 yds is the effective range for hunting with the 30-30? I was given my first 30-30 at 9 years old, I have taken deer at 200-250yds later in life in my career I took my rifle to the range and was bullseyeing at 300 meters...... Don't know if the deer would drop at roughly 328 yds but I see many posts on many sites that say 100 yds is max for a 30-30 or 200 etc I think the shooter has a lot to do with it personally!
 
My BSA bore sighter is also a grid style (inserts in the end of the barrel) and I've never had an issue with it. I always get it 1in and low at 25 yards and have the windage zero then go out to 100 from there.
Note his style won't with on AR' s because the part that shows the grid that you put in the barrel won't be tall enough
 
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