SIG's DAK system and the 229 SAS

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Old Dog

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So I've never been a real fan of DAO autos, nor have I been impressed by Para-Ordnance's LDA trigger system (and I was never able to appreciate Glock's "safe action" trigger). However, yesterday I had the opportunity to try out SIG's SAS, and oh my, I actually started liking it ... For one thing, the trigger pull was consistently smooth and so easy; but the big thing was, these are some accurate pistols.

I'm a pretty dedicated 1911 guy, but I liked the whole SAS package. I'd never particularly wanted a 229 before, but the whole "carry melt" thing, two tone look and the cool half-stippled, half-checkered wood grips really made me start thinking favorably about this pistol. I have a 226 in .40 that's got an excellent DA pull, but this SAS' trigger pull was excellent. And, most impressively, it took little effort to keep an entire magazine in the black of a 4-inch Shoot'n'see target from about 15 yards ...

I'm interested in others' opinions (those who own or have shot quite a bit) of the SIG DAK system and the SAS ...
 
Another member here BigD6765 got a 229 SAS recently and he is crazy about it. I've sent him a link so he can comment.

The 229 SAS and 239SAS are both on my short list. While I haven't fired either of them, the melt job Sig has done is awesome and those wood grips make my heart go pitter patter.
 
Yep, love the SAS. I was a bit hesitant about getting it because I hadn't shot the DAK trigger yet. Seems to be a love-hate relationship from what I've read on the boards.

That said, if all DAK's are like the SAS...I might switch all mine to DAK. The SAS is incredibly smooth throughout the pull and perfectly consistent. Could it be a bit short pull? Maybe, but I can double tap quite well with it and many times my second shot has been better than my first (when coming up from low-ready). For a defensive handgun, it's going to be hard to beat.

So, is the trigger so nice because of the DAK or because it has been through the Sig custom shop? I'll have to shoot a regular DAK to be able to comment on that. At this point though...the 239SAS is definitely on my short list and another 229SAS (for backup of course) might be as well...:cool:
 
I just picked up a 229 SAS last friday. I took it to the range after I picked it up, and wow. My first 50 rounds were all over the target, but that was just because I could not deal with the DAK trigger at first.

After that first fifty though, I hung a new target and shot another 50. At 7 yards I had no problems keeping them all in the head area of the target. The sights were off when I got it, but it puts them all in the same spot. As soon as I get the sights drifted a little bit the gun will be amazing.
 
I have a run on the mill P229 DAK in 9mm, not a SAS and not a custom shop. You are right in that the trigger pull is a smooth consistent pull shot after shot. Now is it the same or better that the SAS? Have no idea I haven't handled a SAS. I do know that I really like the DAK trigger and by the way you cannot convert a gun to DAK it has to be that way from the factory.
 
Still seeking opinions on the SAS and the DAK ...

Everyone must have been too busy on the four-page Kel-Tec thread and missed this one ... Anyone out there with experience and opinions on SIG's latest products?
(for less than the price of 3 Kel-Tecs, you can get a good pre-owned SIG, by the way ...)
 
Billy Sparks said:
...I do know that I really like the DAK trigger and by the way you cannot convert a gun to DAK it has to be that way from the factory.

I spoke with Sig this morning...they confirmed that the later model frames of any Sig can be converted to DAK and vice versa. So, if you have a gun that was produced about the same time as when the DAK's hit the street, you should be able to convert it over. For those with older guns, well...a reason to buy a new one. :)
 
(for less than the price of 3 Kel-Tecs, you can get a good pre-owned SIG, by the way ...)

(for less than the price of 6 Kel-Tecs, you can get a good Les Baer too...)

:D
 
So how does the DAK compare to the Kahr Elite trigger?

I've got a Kahr MK9 Elite98 and have thought a 229 or 239 SAS would be sweet, but I wasn't sure if I'd like the DAK trigger ... if its as nice as the trigger on my Kahr however I'm going to have to seriously think about it.
 
I'm not familiar with the "Kahr elite" trigger unless its the same as is on the Kahr K9 9mm. I own the Kahr K9 and it is the best trigger I have ever experienced, even better than the DAK. The DAK is much grittier and longer, but still very nice. Like I said, it reminds me very much of a S&W revolver trigger pull in length and overall feel. Nice, but could stand to be a bit smoother...

Kahr is wonderful through and through.

TRL
 
I have a P229 .40 DAK (not a SAS) and I love it. It quickly became one of my favorites. I also have an Hk USP compact with the LEM trigger. I hate it. The DAK pull is so much better - its consistant all the way through the pull and it also has a much shorter stroke. Will probably end up trading it in on another SIG, maybe a 226 Equinox :evil:
Go ahead and get one - you won't be sorry :D
 
Hello, Preacherman.

You can get the DAK on the P220:

http://www.sigarms.com/Products/ShowCatalogProduct.aspx?categoryid=6

I thought I'd posted this here, but maybe not. Anyway, here's some observations on the first range trip with the P220 w/DAK. Since this was written, I've moved the rear sight a tiny bit and the gun is now dead bang "on":

"It is no secret that my handgun preferences are single-action autoloaders followed by DA revolvers, but not to the complete exclusion of other action types. One "glaring" exception to my "single-action-only" bias remains the CZ-75 Pre-B; another has been SIG-Sauer single-stack semiautomatics. In that family, I've been most pleased with the SIG-Sauer P220.

SIGSauerP220WoodGripsleftside.gif
This P220 was bought in the '90's though I just recently added the Hogue checkered grips. It came with the "green" recoil spring intended for warmer loads. I bought the gun after attending a firearms instructor school at DPS Austin and saw now retired Lt. Reeves Jungkind (of Jungkind Python fame) shooting one at 50 yards. It was an out of the box P220 and his accuracy was exceptional ... to say the least. This one's been stone cold reliable with any and all JHP's. It will not feed handloaded SWC's with over 5 in the magazine, but anything else feeds, extracts and ejects flawlessly. The 3-dot fixed sights were dead-bang "on" for me and the gun has a very nice single-action albeit with quite a bit of slack initially.

While at DPS Austin a decade later recertifying as a state CHL instructor, I struck up a conversation with one of the rangemasters there, a very nice, very Pro-Second DPS Sergeant and asked how the 357 SIG was doing. (No complaints from this man, who is a very proficient shooter and police firearm instructor.)

He mentioned that their SIG-Sauers were not DAO or DA/SA, but DAK or "Double Action Kellerman" in honor of the fellow who came up with the system. Essentially, you wind up with a DAO pistol, but one with about a 6.5-lb pull.

I didn't think much more about it.

Recently I handled a few SIG-Sauer P220 .45's in various forms of the gun now offered to the shooting public. One was a DAK action on SIG-Sauer's "SAS" (SIG Anti Snag) model.

I kind of liked it so eventually I coughed up the tariff.

The pistol came with two stainless 8-shot magazines vs. the blued 7-shot magazines I'm more familiar with.

SIGSauerP220DAKtile1.jpg
The P220 SAS shown here is stock, just as it comes from the factory. The trigger is of a different contour than my original P220 and quite smooth and short...for a double-action. The "SAS" part amounts to its having no sharp edges, ie: the gun's been "melted" like Ikey Stark's famous "well used bar of soap." I'd have preferred a bit less rounding of the slide's edges, but it is comfortable.

As luck would have it, it drizzled and rained all day. Still I was able to get to the range and shoot at about 10 or 12 yards while standing under a cover.

Ammunition fired included handloaded 230-gr. Remington Golden Saber handloads, as well as factory, Speer 230-gr. Gold Dots, Corbon 185-gr. +P DPX, S&B 230-gr. FMJ, Winchester USA 230-gr. FMJ, Remington UMC 230-gr. FMJ, a 230-gr. CRN handload, Federal 230-gr. Classic JHP, Federal 230-gr. HydraShok, and a few Corbon 185-gr. +P JHP's.

I used both of the new magazines (dimpled at the top rear as compared to the plain) as well as an old 7-shot.

There were no failures to feed, extract, or eject. The slide locked back only after the last round had been fired. Magazines dropped freely when released.

Cases were ejected approximately 8 to 10' to my right.

After a few shots, it was no problem to get the gun to group well enough, but my shots were consistently 3" to the left. I had noticed that for whatever reason, the rear sight blade appeared off-centered well to the left.

Elevation was fine.

Upon returning home, I contacted a local 'smith who has a SIG-Sauer sight pusher and moved the sight to center. I have not shot the gun since doing this but strongly suspect that the "problem" is solved. I'll find out soon.

I sort of like the DAK system for folks not wanting to use single-action for whatever reason. Though not as smooth as a nicely tuned DA revolver, it ain't bad; it ain't bad at all.

There's little doubt (as in none) that I couldn't "double tap" so quickly with this pistol was with a 1911-pattern gun, but in controlled pairs, I honestly don't think there will be any loss of speed. No doubt part of this is from decades of double-action revolver shooting, but I absolutely believe that the DAK is a viable action for quick and accurate emergency shooting.

It is my understanding that some folks have reported problems with some of the newer SIG-Sauer P220 magazines with regard to some cartridges being too long to fit. While the ammunition used today wasn't excessively long, some of it has been mentioned in the posts concerning this problem. I didn't experience it at all. I have no idea if the problem was a single run of magazines or if some lots of ammunition had been loaded longer. In any event, the above-mentioned ammunition worked fine in all three magazines.

In the near future, I'll see how accurately I can shoot this pistol and will chronograph several different loads but I don't expect any significant differences in bullet speeds when compared to my older P220.

So far I'm pleased with the pistol and the DAK action. I fired something less than 300 rounds today, but will get serious with the pistol in the near future.

Best."
 
Stephen,

Great post. Nice pair of P220's. Might have to re-think which Sig to get next. I have a mid 90's P220 and have had absolutely no problems ever with it. Come to think of it, I haven't had any problems with any of my Sigs :D Thanks for the info on the DAK name. I couldn't figure out what the "K" stood for.
What type of wood are those Hogues? I want to dress up my P220 with something nice and those look sharp. Thanks
 
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