Size then Clean or Clean then Size?

[alexcue]

I do not have scratches on my brass, at least none that bother me.

I use Lee dies. I tumble my brass for a couple hours in walnut media. Then I size/deprime.

I clean my dies every few hundred rounds for rifle, less often for pistol.

I do not use any polishes, waxes or any other chemicals in my tumbler, just a used dryer sheet or paper towel to collect dust. I do not know what interaction those chemicals might have with powders.

I spend less money and less time obsessing over polished, shiny brass, and more time building quality ammunition and shooting it.

Pretty much the same thing here, except I do use Nu-Finish. From what I've read is it works as a lubricant also. I've noticed that if i use washed (steel-pin tumbled) brass, it's TOO clean and squeaky.

It has worked for me...

 

[hdwhit]

I think joem1945 gave you very good advice to use lapping compound to polish the die. If you don't want to wait for it to be mailed to you, you can usually get it at an auto parts store as well as a reloading store.

 

[gojones]

I use a universal decapping die, then clean and size. I remove my decapping pin from my designated sizing die and leave the decapping rod. I like this process the best as it preserves both my brass and dies.

 

[ajandrs]

Well what do you know, the LEE guys actually know their stuff ... I suppose that shouldn't be surprising! I took some emery cloth to the inside of the die tonight (it's what I had on hand) and whittled down that streak I could see inside the die that was causing the scratch and sure enough it came right out with a decent amount of elbow grease. There were also some marks elsewhere in the die so I gave the whole inside a good rub down and sure enough, scratch free brass was the result!

I had the emery cloth on hand but I think I'll still pick up some lapping compound to get a good polish inside. I can see the swirl marks from the emery cloth so polishing it up really good would make me feel a little better about it. But it works well again so I'm a happy guy tonight!

Thank you all for your comments, experiences, and suggestions, I appreciate the help!

 

[9mmepiphany]

Depriming and resizing before cleaning would defeat the process of a progressive press.

Aren't you removing the cases after sizing, to trim, anyway?

Our local high volume .223 shooters, case prep on one Dillon 650...deprime, size, trim...and load on another 650. They usually dry tumble, 15-20 mins, them between presses to remove the case lube

 

[SARuger]

I de-cap on a dedicated single stage with a LEE universal decapping die, then clean/de-crimp primer pockets and tumble in walnut. Then size, trim and if its rifle brass, run it in the walnut again to get the case lube off.

Yes I'm OCD but my brass always comes out new.

 

[splattergun]

I appreciate your post, but I can't determine if that was a parting shot or a harmless, though unnecessary comment. I'll go with the latter to give you the benefit of the doubt. Regardless, this post wasn't asking who can get the shiniest brass and how, nor was anyone even discussing "shiny" brass. I was simply trying to gauge how everyone else was handling their brass prep and how it could affect the sizing die. I couldn't care less about how shiny my brass is, but I do care about how clean it is and whether or not there are 3/4" long gouges in it.

Another possible cause I just realized is that this batch where I noticed the scratching was the first batch of brass that I ran through the wet tumbler, so it was noticeably cleaner and shinier than all the previous brass I've ran through my dies. It sounds like everyone commenting so far is using dry media, does anyone with wet tumbling experience have any thoughts to add? Like springer said, I'm wondering if the extremely fine dust from my walnut media was adding a tiny coating on the brass that assisted in "lubing" much like LEE claims the oxidation and soot does. But with wet tumbling they come out perfectly clean and dry.

Sorry, a poor choice of words obfuscated my points, which are:
I tumble first.
I clean my dies from time to time.

If my intent is to build quality ammo, and to shoot it, its appearance is at a lower priority than its function. I find my process is the best utilization of my time and resources toward that goal, vs washing, multiple tumbling, and polishing with all the accompanying expenditure of time and money.

I clean my dies because grit will get in to them one way or another, even when the brass is clean. If I found excessive scratching on my brass this would be my first response. A shot of brake cleaner works well, a touch up with emery paper in an extreme case. I haven't ever had to use this yet.

The reason I tumble first to clean dirt and debris from cases which helps in my brass safety inspection, and aids keeping the dies clean. I use a dry tumble because I am not chemist enough to be certain that the waxes, acids and polishes won't interact with powder, especially in the long term, in stored ammo.

My process works very well to meet my needs. YMMV

 

[Reloadron]

I resize including deprime first. I do not pick up range brass so my brass is generally fairly clean to begin with. I clean and polish after resizing and trimming. Really, to each their own for their own reasons.

Ron

 

[The Bushmaster]

1. Inspect and tumble.
2. Inspect, resize/decap, trim and tumble.
3. Prime and charge with powder.
4. Seat bullet and crimp (if needed).
5. Shoot or store.
6. Start all over.

 

[Sam1911]

I don't believe I've EVER resized a case that hadn't been tumbled first. Most of the brass I shoot hits the ground before I recover it, and just about all of it spends a lot of time in the range bag or brass bag with other brass that spent time in the dirt. I'm going to clean them as best as I can before I run them through my dies.


If I was a bench shooter I might feel differently, but 99.9% of the brass that comes out of my guns spends time in the air, on the ground, under foot, all over very active ranges getting stomped into the gravel, sand, and mud. It simply wouldn't be feasible to run it through my dies dirty.

 

[Dentite]

I realize this is more labor intensive than some are interested in, but I wet tumble with stainless steel pins so to get the primer pockets clean, I first deprime with a dedicated press and "universal decapper" in my garage or back patio. After tumbling with dawn detergent I drain and tumble for a few minutes with armor all wash and wax. Then I resize/load/etc. This way the brass is completely clean before it reaches my reloading bench, dies, etc.

 

[JohnMc]

99.9% of the brass that comes out of my guns spends time in the air, on the ground, under foot, all over very active ranges getting stomped into the gravel, sand, and mud. It simply wouldn't be feasible to run it through my dies dirty.

Same here.

I decap with a universal decapper and then use the Frankford Arsenal Rotary Tumbler with Armor All Wash and Wax, which has some Carnuba wax in it. The cases don't have grit and do have a light coating of wax, which should prevent the galling that was mentioned. That only effects pistol brass in carbide dies anyway; all rifle brass is lubed before sizing anyway.

 

[Paladin7]

Yes, I use Lee Dies for all of my pistol calibers...they work great.

 

[valleyforge.1777]

Aren't you removing the cases after sizing, to trim, anyway?

Our local high volume .223 shooters, case prep on one Dillon 650...deprime, size, trim...and load on another 650. They usually dry tumble, 15-20 mins, them between presses to remove the case lube

I do what you are describing but I use one XL650 machine and two different toolheads. But I found that if I do not have a sizing/depriming die in station 1 of the second (loading phase) toolhead, the cases topple all over the place while I am cycling the press. So, now I use a second sizing die with the decapper removed to guide the cases in station 1 as I cycle the press. Hence, I do not tumble the lube off until I have finished ammo. I tried using a Dillon universal decapping die as the "guide" for station 1 but the cases wobble too much in that die, too.

But anyway, I would not ever want to run brass through any of my dies without cleaning it first.

 

[Walkalong]

Tumble or wipe clean. Size, tumble or wipe off lube. I have also used hot water to remove water based lube, but then you have to wait for the cases to dry.

Yes, that means I clean twice, and since I hand prime off the press, it means I run them through the LNL twice. If I shot as much as the 3 gun shooters, I expect I would modify that for some reloading.

 

[OilyPablo]

Deprime on a standalone $25 press with a universal decapper. After a couple sessions of refining your process, you can go through a LOT of brass, very rapidly. (on right below). Wear gloves. Let primers fall in trash can.



Wet tumble deprimed brass using car soap with wax and SS pins. (Wash and wax). Dry in a garage sale food dehydrator. Lube lightly with very dilute coconut oil/lanolin mix dry IPA. Size and reload.

I know people say loading dirty brass works just fine. But I just don't do it. Not saying I never have problems, but certainly nothing to do with putting dirty brass in my actual reloading stream.

 

[Zendude]

Aren't you removing the cases after sizing, to trim, anyway?

Only rifle cartridges. If the recommendation from Lee was for both rifle and pistol brass, then it would mess up my pistol reloading process.