Skeet, Trap and Sporting Clays ... gun recommendations for small framed shooter

[Balrog]

I have a 95 pound, 5'1" daughter that I am looking to get a shotgun for skeet, trap, and clays. She has been shooting a 20 gauge Benelli Montefeltro, doing fine, but I think it puts her at a disadvantage against boys shooting 12 gauges. So yesterday I had her shoot my old Remington 1100 12 gauge. This is an older model from the late 70's, all steel, 28" barrel, and weights a little over 8 pounds.

She shot the Remington a little better than the Benelli. She says recoil was not noticeably different than the 20 gauge Benelli Montefeltro. This is probably due to the weight difference (Montefeltro is 2.5 pounds lighter), and the gas system on the Remington.

Her problem was not recoil, but the weight of the Remington. I think 8 pounds is high for her, and she would be better off with something around 7 pounds as a compromise.

Also I am not sure about 28" versus 26" barrel either. The Montefeltro is a 26" barrel. Remington was 28". I suspect the 28" gives her an advantage especially with trap.

Given the above, anyone want to make recommendations for a good 12 g shotgun for her? It has to either be semi-auto or double barrel... not a pump.

I am OK with double barrel, but am wondering how the recoil on it will compare to a gas operated semi-auto.

Keep in mind, she will be shooting in matches where a few hundred shells will be shot. I am looking for something that wont wear her out or beat her up too much. She's a tough girl.

 

[kudu]

The 1100/11-87 Remington, or a Beretta in the 390/391 or the newer 300 series has very little felt recoil, stocks can be had reasonable for the 1100 that can be cut down for your daughter, never looked into stocks for the Beretta's. I am 6'2" and 260# and I shoot mostly 7/8oz 12 gauge shells through my 12's. I also shoot lots of 20's, 28's and .410's. Nothing wrong with a 20 gauge, but you will have more shell selection with a 12.

Now, shooting all three events of skeet, trap and sporting clays with one gun is done, getting a dedicated trap gun usually will help trap scores dramatically. Skeet and sporting are generally done with a field type gun. Trap is set up for a high point of impact and guns are specifically set up for that. Some guns like the Berettas have shims that can adjust the stock for cast on and off and height of comb, great for initial set up, but you don't want to have to tear a gun down when you change from skeet to trap shooting.

I personally would get an 1100 or 11-87 and cut the stock or get a replacement stock and cut it down for her and find the lightest loads that it will shoot reliably and go from there. Absolutely nothing wrong with going the Beretta direction either, good quality guns.

O/U's can be tamed down with recoil reducers in the stock, but weight is generally involved, remember good target guns weigh in at 8-10#'s. Yes they are heavy, but it absorbs the recoil tremendously. I prefer the weight rather than getting beat up with recoil. It's a trade off, very few people like shooting their ultra light bird guns after 50-75 shells, let alone 300-400 that a target shooter runs in a day. Barrel length is subjective to each shooter, I prefer long barrels, and longer for trap.

 

[expat_alaska]

It is too bad you won't consider a pump. I started shooting skeet/trap with a Rem 1100 12 gauge in 1969 as a 16-year old and quickly changed over to an 870 Wingmaster 12 gauge 26" VR IC choke/spare 30" VR FC barrel and never looked back. I feel the 870 is a better/lighter gun than the 1100 and with a pump one has to be more aware of whether the gun is loaded or not, insofar as safety is concerned. My gun had a 2-1/4" drop at the heel so seeing the entire rib was never a problem. Many field guns have a 2-3/4" drop (or more) which presents problems insofar as cheek weld to the stock. It also had a very thick ventilated recoil pad, and with 3 dram 1-1/8 oz. loads it was easy squeezy. When I worked at Roberts Shooting Park, Elkhorn NE (no longer exists: it is a community college now lol) the range managers had a 12-year-old girl named Kathy that regularly shot trap with an 870 TB grade 30" FC and did as well as the older gents, but I remember she was a bit hefty for her age. It had the same type of recoil pad.

Heck, I remember shooting a buddy's Win Mod 12 20 gauge with a Cutts Comp on the skeet range and doing well with it. But, man it was loud!

If she is shooting trap/skeet target loads, there should be no problem with recoil.

Jim

 

[243winxb]

O/U is best for serious competitions. When shooting doubles in skeet or trap, the ejected empty shell from an auto loader will block the view of the 2nd bird. Not always , but can . 1 lost target takes shooter out of the running for top score.

Citori 725 pro sporting with adjustable comb.

Nothing wrong with a 1100 Rem if it has a high comp, like a trap gun. This works when the gun is mounted when calling for the target in skeet and trap. . Not good for sporting clays, gun down start.

Adjustable combs can be added to most shotguns.

 

[Balrog]

It is too bad you won't consider a pump. I started shooting skeet/trap with a Rem 1100 12 gauge in 1969 as a 16-year old and quickly changed over to an 870 Wingmaster 12 gauge 26" VR IC choke/spare 30" VR FC barrel and never looked back. I feel the 870 is a better/lighter gun than the 1100 and with a pump one has to be more aware of whether the gun is loaded or not, insofar as safety is concerned. My gun had a 2-1/4" drop at the heel so seeing the entire rib was never a problem. Many field guns have a 2-3/4" drop (or more) which presents problems insofar as cheek weld to the stock. It also had a very thick ventilated recoil pad, and with 3 dram 1-1/8 oz. loads it was easy squeezy. When I worked at Roberts Shooting Park, Elkhorn NE (no longer exists: it is a community college now lol) the range managers had a 12-year-old girl named Kathy that regularly shot trap with an 870 TB grade 30" FC and did as well as the older gents, but I remember she was a bit hefty for her age. It had the same type of recoil pad.

Heck, I remember shooting a buddy's Win Mod 12 20 gauge with a Cutts Comp on the skeet range and doing well with it. But, man it was loud!

If she is shooting trap/skeet target loads, there should be no problem with recoil.

Jim

I don't have a problem with a pump shotgun, but the coach felt like it hurts people when shooting doubles. They are not forbidden just not advised.

 

[Kingcreek]

Browning is running a rebate on the new Citori CX crossover. I just saw a sale coming up for $1400. I don't need one but I almost have myself talked into one anyway.

 

[eastbank]

there are several people i shoot sporting clays with that shoot in the low to middle 40,s with pump guns pretty regularly. read up on rudy etchen and his 870 remington pump. he,s one of my shooting hero,s. eastbank.

 

[entropy]

I knew a gal about your daughters' size (Actually shorter) who shot a Model 12 30" and had a 23 avg. How about a Montefeltro in 12? Or a gas gun like a Beretta 300 type?

I started shooting skeet/trap with a Rem 1100 12 gauge in 1969 as a 16-year old and quickly changed over to an 870 Wingmaster 12 gauge 26" VR IC choke/spare 30" VR FC barrel and never looked back.

expat I did the same thing almost 10 years after you. Was given my Dad's spare 1100 to use for Trap when I was 14 (Got a job at a Trap range) and started gunsmithing in order to keep the dang thing running. word got around that I could fix shotguns, and it snowballed. I bought an 870 right after turning 18, and have had at least 1 since then. My current one is a Tactical Mag. with a SpeedFeed III stock; I get some looks when I bring it to the range, (with a 28" barrel on) but the snarky comments usually go away after the round is done.

 

[expat_alaska]

I don't have a problem with a pump shotgun, but the coach felt like it hurts people when shooting doubles. They are not forbidden just not advised.

All she has to do is learn the gun. Actually, if you are good at shucking an 870 it can be as fast or faster than an 1100. Trust me. I was never much of a trap guy but when shooting skeet doubles from stations 1,2,6, and 7 the 870 presents no problems whatsoever. And I used to shoot skeet with the gun down (not shouldered) because it was better practice for bird shooting. Maybe that's why I never went 25 straight. Heck, just for S&G's we used to shoot doubles from station 8. High house bird was easy but the low house bird was like shooting a rabbit.

I digress. Use your best judgment and see what your daughter wants. That is what is important.

Jim

 

[entropy]

All she has to do is learn the gun. Actually, if you are good at shucking an 870 it can be as fast or faster than an 1100. Trust me. I was never much of a trap guy but when shooting skeet doubles from stations 1,2,6, and 7 the 870 presents no problems whatsoever. And I used to shoot skeet with the gun down (not shouldered) because it was better practice for bird shooting. Maybe that's why I never went 25 straight. Heck, just for S&G's we used to shoot doubles from station 8. High house bird was easy but the low house bird was like shooting a rabbit.

I digress. Use your best judgment and see what your daughter wants. That is what is important.

Jim

I concur. An 870 can be shot faster then an 1100.

 

[expat_alaska]

I concur. An 870 can be shot faster then an 1100.

Thank you for the concurrence, sir.

If anyone wants fast, I'll take a Winchester 1897 any day. No disconnector. Hold the trigger down and pump away.

Jim

 

[cfullgraf]

I don't have a problem with a pump shotgun, but the coach felt like it hurts people when shooting doubles. They are not forbidden just not advised.

In the 1930s and 1940s, pump shotguns were the gun of choice for skeet. Over/unders and autoloaders replaced the pump as the guns of choice in the 1950s and 1960s.

Yes, if you are interested in being competitive at the clay games, pump shotguns are not advised.

 

[Armored farmer]

I know a little bit about this subject, so I will add my $.02.
Yes, she has a disadvantage shooting a 20ga. i think

First and foremost, the gun must fit properly.
I shot a model 12 winchester from the time I was a sub-junior until after I was married. During that period of time, I had three custom stocks.

Secondly, use premium ammo. It's better. The old black Remington cheapies kicked hard and always gave me a headache. Even the 7/8ths oz loads.

Then be sure you have good hearing protection. Nothing compounds recoil like a sharp report in your ears.
Shooting glasses that don't interfere with your field of view.

Back in the day, we shot with a gal that probably didn't weigh in at 120lbs. She wielded her model 12 like a pro, and won many ladies titles. However, my suggestion would be toward an autoloader. They shoot softer. Beretta makes some good autos. I have a Remington that I really like.



Some things that I mentioned may seem insignificant, but if it gains you 1 target per 200....iit could mean the difference between 1st and 2nd place.

 

[Balrog]

Ok so although I appreciate the comments about pumps, I am not going to buy a pump, so maybe we can talk about them in another thread.

I am probably going to have her try a gas operated semi-auto. The question is which one. Do any of the major manufacturers make a gas operated semi auto 12 gauge with a stock with an easily adjustable length of pull, such as with shims?

Can the Beretta guns with Kick Off be easily adjusted for length of pull?

 

[expat_alaska]

In the 1930s and 1940s, pump shotguns were the gun of choice for skeet. Over/unders and autoloaders replaced the pump as the guns of choice in the 1950s and 1960s.

Yes, if you are interested in being competitive at the clay games, pump shotguns are not advised.

I must disagree. I have no idea why you think so. If you are concerned with short shucking, learn the gun. Practice, practice, practice. My fave is an 870 but while home on leave from the USAF I used my Dad's Win Model 12 16 gauge full choke to kill a pheasant at 65 measured paces, in 1972. I got way out front of the bird and many feathers flew.

I have an idea that many people do not know how to shoot a shotgun. I grew up with them. Maybe that is why I am so enamored with them.

Jim

 

[Balrog]

I must disagree. I have no idea why you think so. If you are concerned with short shucking, learn the gun. Practice, practice, practice. My fave is an 870 but while home on leave from the USAF I used my Dad's Win Model 12 16 gauge full choke to kill a pheasant at 65 measured paces, in 1972. I got way out front of the bird and many feathers flew.

I have an idea that many people do not know how to shoot a shotgun. I grew up with them. Maybe that is why I am so enamored with them.

Jim

Like I said, though, pumps aren't being considered. Maybe the coach wants to spend more time teaching the kids to break clays than operate a pump gun. In a tournament, gun malfunctions, such as if you short shuck. count as a miss, and winners are determined by just a few clays. The kid using an over and under never has to worry about short shucking, and I have seen more pump shotgunners short shuck than I have seen semi autos jam.

 

[browningguy]

I must disagree. I have no idea why you think so. If you are concerned with short shucking, learn the gun. Practice, practice, practice. My fave is an 870 but while home on leave from the USAF I used my Dad's Win Model 12 16 gauge full choke to kill a pheasant at 65 measured paces, in 1972. I got way out front of the bird and many feathers flew.

I have an idea that many people do not know how to shoot a shotgun. I grew up with them. Maybe that is why I am so enamored with them.

Jim

I haven't seen anyone win in competition with a pump in many years.

I'd go with a gas semi auto, it will have considerably less recoil than a double, I shoot both but have put the doubles away as I got older.

 

[cfullgraf]

I must disagree. I have no idea why you think so. If you are concerned with short shucking, learn the gun. Practice, practice, practice. My fave is an 870 but while home on leave from the USAF I used my Dad's Win Model 12 16 gauge full choke to kill a pheasant at 65 measured paces, in 1972. I got way out front of the bird and many feathers flew.

I have an idea that many people do not know how to shoot a shotgun. I grew up with them. Maybe that is why I am so enamored with them.

Jim

I never said pump shot guns were not good for hunting and other tasks. It is just for competition, they are at a disadvantage. Too many things to do when trying to pick up a double.

When I was shooting competitive skeet in the 1990s, all the top shooters were using over/unders or autoloaders or both. Many would shoot an autoloader in the 12 gauge event and an over/under in the other events.

Similar to browningguy's comment, I never saw a pump gun in competition.

And yes, I have several pump shotguns and started shooting skeet with one of them many moons ago.

 

[Armored farmer]

No disadvantage in shooting a pump for singles.

 

[Balrog]

No disadvantage in shooting a pump for singles.

No disadvantage to a muzzle loader either for singles.

Anyway, like I have said, pump shot guns aren't being considered, so need to dedicate a large amount of discussion in this thread.

I think I have about talked myself into getting a semi auto gas operated 12 gauge. Leaning towards a Beretta A400 Xplor.

 

[Armored farmer]

No disadvantage to a muzzle loader either for singles

???
Really?

 

[Crawdad1]

What about a 7 pound Remington 1100? She seem to like your Remington.

 

[Balrog]

???
Really?

What about a 7 pound Remington 1100? She seem to like your Remington.

My 1100 weighs 8.2 pounds, but is from about 1978. Are the new ones lighter?

I have also heard that Remington is not as good as it used to be. Others have recommended I take a look at Browning, Winchester, and Beretta instead.

 

[FN in MT]

I shoot all three , I use a tube set O/U for skeet/SC. And a dedicated single for trap.

One can do nicely with an auto in skeet/SC with choke tubes or even a spare barrel. A friend has a Beretta auto with both a 26" and a 30" barrel. Uses the 26" for skeet and sporting, the 30" for trap.

I shot trap for many years with an 1100 with a 30" and fixed choke. Got me to the 27 yd line. Then shortened the stock and my Wife shot it for a few years. I used an O/U for doubles.

IMHO the best tool for Trap is a dedicated gun. Be it a single or an auto. Look at older Browning BT-99's. FIT is everything. Shooting pattern high helps too. Plus most dedicated guns will have a bit of cast off and a high comb to help mitigate recoil. I hate to see kids shooting field stocks getting beat to death.

Also for 16yd trap let her shoot 7/8 or 1 ounce loads. They really reduce recoil. Back years ago when shot went through the roof , I shot a few seasons on 7/8 loads. Even using 1 ounce from the 23-25 yd line. I did OK.

I'd look for a beretta auto for skeet/SC. For trap let her try a few different guns. NEVER been to a club that wouldn't cater to a young shooter by members allowing her to try different guns. Trap shooters are generally a good crowd.

 

[Jim Watson]

Browning has the Micro series of autos for small statured shooters. Unfortunately I do not see one listed with high comb Trap stock or adjustable SC stock. Gamaliel says the Silver Sporting Micro is out of production. Maybe you could find a second hand gun.

As said, hanging around the club will get her more guns to fondle than you can imagine.