SKS semi-auto 7.62*39 is good for my first long gun?

[Stiletto Null]

lol

I would say to just go all out and get a CZ 452 or some such (I love those things) for your first if you want to go the .22 route, but those are kind of expensive.

(The most expensive gun which I actually own is a CZ 452 FS.)

 

[loonie]

to Stiletto Null ,u meant speading lots of money on a .22 rifle? but I prefer my second rifle is pretty powerful(enough to kill a male black bear

 

[Harve Curry]

Qoute.."I am a total fresh"........

I would not recommend a semi auto as a 1st gun to anyone.

You have alot to remember and the semi-auto rifle/handgun reloads itself with every shot. You are a touch of the trigger away from a accidental discharge all the time. Start with something that you have to manually operate to load the chamber. It will teach you alot.

Other then that the 10-22 and SKS are good rifles but not for newby's.

 

[Stiletto Null]

Well, let's see.

A CZ 452 will run you $300~$350 US. Being new guns, prices are probably similar in Canada, after allowing for exchange rate.

As for a gun to take out black bear, I'd imagine an SKS ought to be "enough", although you might be better served by something firing a battle rifle class round. Which means a marketed-as-such hunting (deer) rifle in .243 and up, or maybe a milsurp boltie. Mauser or Mosin would be my pick, .303 is too scarce for me to suggest an Enfield and I dunno what availability is like for Ishapore 2As and 7.62x51 up in Canada.

Although if you can get a hold of them, an Ishapore 2A Enfield should do just fine for anti-black bear purposes.

Qoute.."I am a total fresh"........

I would not recommend a semi auto as a 1st gun to anyone.

You have alot to remember and the semi-auto rifle/handgun reloads itself with every shot. You are a touch of the trigger away from a accidental discharge all the time. Start with something that you have to manually operate to load the chamber. It will teach you alot.

Other then that the 10-22 and SKS are good rifles but not for newby's.

I have to disagree with this (kind of like how some people argue that Glocks are probably better for newbies)—they're not any more hazardous (in terms of ADs), and the semiauto aspect will help to reinforce proper trigger and muzzle discipline, potentially reducing risk of NDs over time.

 

[wallysparx]

my first gun was a yugo m59; i don't regret that decision at all. i enjoyed cleaning out all the cosmoline, and it's still the gun i know best since i had to break it down completely to clean it up. still the funnest for me to shoot today. with that said, now i'm looking to get a 10/22 for the cheaper trigger time, and i can at least practice at the indoor range down the street instead of heading out for about an hour to the nearest outdoor range to play with the sks.

 

[GW]

Here in California Big 5 sporting goods usually has a remington 710 with a scope for around $399 usually in a choice of 30-06 or 7MM Rem Mag

As for a 22 It is a very inexpensive way to learn marksmanship Use it to learn sight alignment and trigger control. Its a lot cheaper to practice with than 30-06 or 7MM AND a lot of fun
Once you get the basics down then you'll be ready for that bear
Have fun!

 

[Eightball]

I would shy away from the 710--they're cheap, and feel kinda cruddy, IMHO. I don't like to sell them to people (yeah, I work in a gun shop) if I can help it---no, i don't make commission, there's just so many better guns out there.

My advice, from a 10/22 owner----get a Marlin 39A as your first gun, and first .22. Very nice construction, accurate enough to shoot spent shotgun shells off a fence at 75 yards, no recoil, 14 shots---and the lever action only gets smother as time goes on, because you "wear in" the gun. Around here, you can't find them used, because everyone loves them and won't sell them---a new one is roughly about $400 from marlin. But wow, are they spiffy.

 

[rangerruck]

personally i cannot stand the sks, yes it is good at what it does, but i hate those damn boomerang magazines.

 

[Stiletto Null]

Ranger: are you sure you're not thinking of the AK?

SKS:


AK:

 

[STAGE 2]

2 things Loonie,

First, yes an SKS is a great first rifle. It is incredibly reliable, simple to field strip and understand, easy to shoot, and just plain fun. However, before you buy one (and this applies to ANY gun) you need to research it and understand its quirks and limitations. As many before have stated the bolt on these rifles needs to be thoroughly cleaned or else it might ruin your day unless you decide to get a firing pin modification.

I'm not a fan of the "start with the smallest caliber crowd" for a variety of reasons, and I don't think that starting with an SKS would be a disservice to you at all. Just understand that there will be different issues that you will have to face in purchasing a surplus com-bloc gun than you would with a new rifle.


Second. Don't hunt bear with an SKS. It will piss off the bear and ruin your day even more than the surprise slam fire I mentioned above.

 

[Zen21Tao]

Personally Opinion:
For accuracy I like the .223 and .308 rounds over the 7.62x39. If you want semi-auto I would go with either an AR15, Ruger mini-14 or Saiga for .223 or an HK G3/Cetme, FAL, AR or Saiga for .308.

 

[gunsmith]

Ah...I have it!

You are concerned about self defense from bear and hunting bear.
That seems very prudent as being that you live in Canada.
I have the solution!
First get a lever sction .22lr for practice, then get a "guide gun" (45-70 caliber)
by marlin, which is also a lever action so the switch will not be that much of a shock plus for the price you mentioned , you can get both at the same time.
plus lots of handguns also shoot .22lr...

The thump of a 45-70 against your shoulder will be very comforting if you encounter bear..the guide gun .......

and a .22lr lever

what 45-70 bullets look like (cartridges)

and 22LR...well I couldn't find a side by side...so, take my word for it, a two two has lots less bang

 

[Smokey Joe]

First rifle

Loonie--The SKS is a nice rifle. Built like a tank. IF you can learn to apply the 4 rules to a semi-auto, it would be OK to learn rifle marksmanship with. A Ruger 10/22 is rather much the same except with cheaper ammo. You DO want to practice with yr new rifle. A LOT. Then practice some more.

I agree with those above who say a 7.62x39 is a little light for bear. It COULD work, especially if you are an excellent shot and know bear anatomy quite well. The 7.62x39 will do just fine on deer out to mebbe 100 yds, mebbe more, depending again on how good a shot you are with it.

So perhaps the vote should be for one of the currently readily available Yugoslavian Mausers, the M48 or the M48a. Price is about the same as that for an SKS, i.e. $150-$200US, depending. They come in 8mm Mauser (or 8x57mm if you prefer) which packs a good deal more wallop, and thereby gives you a greater margin for error. You could hunt with it "as issued" for now, and modify it as your budget and inclination allow. There is LOTS of modification possible. The 8mm ammo is pricier, which is why all these people are suggesting you get a .22 with which to practice marksmanship. There IS still military surplus 8mm ammo to be had, but (a) it is more expensive than 7.62x39, and (b) you can't use it for hunting; you have to buy the more costly sporting ammo for that.

I can tell you as a former Hunter Safety Instructor that .22 rifle skills are "real rifle skills" and the marksmanship learned with a .22 transfers to any other caliber rifle, with no degradation.

Something else to keep in mind: YOU are buying this rifle for YOU. Not to please me, or anyone else. If at all possible, borrow a friends' rifle, the same model(s) as you are considering, and take it shooting. That will tell you a lot. Get the rifle that seems to fit YOU.

I like my SKS. My M-48 is a lot more accurate. Accuracy is good.

 

[BoySetsTheFire]

I like to practice with my SKS at the range. The gun comes with iron sights and no fancy trigger. And it is recommeded that it be left that way. One can develop their skill with the SKS, with regard to sight picture and firing. The 7.62x39 is at the low end of .30 cal, so you might think of it as the .22 for practice. Then you can move on to .308 Win or 30-06.

You can shoot Wolf steel case for about 16¢ to 20¢ per round, pricing has varied. With shipping, 1000 rounds can be about $200, slightly less if you shop around. Brass cased ammunition will be double that, but the SKS was built to fire steel case.

In comparison, a brick of .22 is free! But I'm not sure that a .22 will simulate the recoil of .30 cal, with regard to practicing. And yes, I'd love to own a Ruger 10/22 (but then I would love to own every rifle in the world but can't afford to.)

 

[jjohnson]

Welcome Aboard, Loonie!

Hey, it depends. Man, that's three times now I've used that answer in 24 hours.

The reason it depends is nobody knows if you've actually been shooting, say, a Ruger 10/22 and know firearms well, or if you've only been to the range once with your friends.

If you're really a brand new shooter, by all means, get a .22 first, and hands down the Ruger 10/22 is a SUPER first gun unless you're about 7 years old.
The SKS is a great buy on a "fun gun" though it's not a tack driver. All the good things the other posters said about them are true. You may love other rifles more, but the SKS is a great buy if you like to plink (it's not a real sportsmen's deer rifle or long range prarie dog gun, either).

If you were my kid brother I'd have you buy both for sure, but the Ruger first.

Bear hunting with an SKS is a bad idea. It might do the job, but even where legal, that's a position of being undergunned by design. Small black bears..... maybe, if you're good and have proper ammo. MAYBE. If you're going to kill something on purpose, use enough gun to do the job. If you're new to guns, play at the gun range awhile anyway before you try to start hunting with a firearm. We'll all be happier.

That advice about Ruger and SKS for guys new to shooting is dead on.
A cool thing is that they kinda sorta handle alike. The SKS is heavier of course, but they're both 10 shot semis (base model with no tricks) that point well and don't malfunction, are easy to care for, blah blah blah. Not target guns, but for fun at the range, hard to beat.

You'll get really great advice on this forum. Sometimes it'll be differing opinions, but they're given freely so you can weigh 'em out and ponder where you wanna go. Have fun!

 

[Stiletto Null]

Pfft. SKSes don't have recoil. They just kind of float up/back as you're firing.

Lean into it (aggressively if you're firing real fast), it's not going to hurt you. Even with the gas system off (this only applies to the Yugo 59/66, by the way; the others don't have the gas system switch), firing from a locked-body position with the stock only partly on your shoulder (or on your collarbone), it's not going to hurt you.

If you don't lean into it while firing rapidly, eventually you will find yourself teetering on your back foot and wondering why.

***

If you go for a Yugo Mauser, I suggest an M48A. The M48s are nice rifles too, but they can be kind of crunchy (at least using really high-pressure stuff like Turk); M48As have uglier magazine floorplates, but have better metalwork (WRT fit/finish, I dunno that they actually have better steel) and will be a lot easier to cycle. M24/47s are also nice (also Yugoslavian). Other than Turkish Mausers and Mosins, Yugo Mausers are probably the cheapest way to get into the battle rifle game.

 

[dfaugh]

While I love my SKSs, and think eveybody should own at least one , I think your first rifle should be a .22. There's simply no cheaper way to learn good gun handling and shooting skills. You can shoot all day for a few dollars. There's NO recoil, so you don't have to worry about developing a flinch (although a SKS has very little recoil, too.)

BUT, I wouldn't recomend a 10/22...Go with a Marlin 60 if you want semi-auto, more accurate and cheaper to boot The more accurate a gun is the more fun it is to shoot, and the better to gauge your improvement in shooting skills). Or a Marlin bolt gun.

P.S. i would NOT want to confront a PO'd bear with only an SKS..Yes, it'll probably work, but I wouldn't bet my life on it either.

 

[Stiletto Null]

For that matter, aren't black bear a lot "softer" than brown/grizzly? I hear people recommending stuff like .44 or even .357 for black in the States fairly often.

 

[dfaugh]

For that matter, aren't black bear a lot "softer" than brown/grizzly?

Yes, definitely..BUT they can still go over 400 lbs. and if your shot placement isn't good (and most peoples won't be if the bear is charging), I'd prefer to have someting with a bit more "thump" than 7.62x39. Kinda the same with boar hunting...you have to consider them as "dangerous game", as they can be dangerous when riled up. So, personally I'd prefer something a little more robust if hunting them.

 

[Matt Dillon]

My recommendation for a first rifle would be a bolt action .22 calibre rifle. Learn to shoot well with it, learn good breathing, trigger control, sighting, how to clean it and take care of it, etc., then and only then move up to something with which to take a black bear. My recommendation would be to purchase a Mosin Nagant (M38 or M44) not made during the WWII years, and you can purchase a boat load of good Czech silver tip as well as good hunting ammo. My M44, with a 4x pistol scope and scout mount will put 5 rounds inside a .7" hole at 50 yards. With my old eyes, this is pretty good! This caliber (7.62x54) has enough oomph to take down a bear or boar (Russian equivalent of our 30/06), and you can practice with it very cheaply if you shoot the Czech silver tip. A couple of years ago the ammo went for 800 rounds for $39.00. .22 caliber and Czech silver tip are both extremely economical rounds to shoot.
Nothing wrong with an SKS, I own two of them, but it would not be the first rifle that I would recommend for a new shooter.

 

[lionking]

loonie,you keep emphasizing you want to hunt.There have been those that suggest a milsurp rifle that while some use it to effect I still say you'd be better getting a commercial quality rifle with a scope,in .30 caliber.If you wound the animal with a under powered cartridge or miss with a less accurate rifle it will be your duty to track that animal and finish the kill.

in brush country or short range,45-70 has been suggested which is good.If in your budget a Remington 700 with scope seems to me a good choice(a used one can be found often),30-06 can be heavy enough for bear and good for deer.30-06 is common and with many different loading to choose from.

 

[loonie]

Thanks a lot for such many good ideas.

It seems I'd better get .22 first for rifle handling and marksmanship practice. but for my second rifle,so far there is still in the air(SKS 7.62*39 is not good for hunting big game,so I decide not to take any more).

Could someone can recommend me a rifle for big game hunting and a shotgun for small game hunting regardless the budget, my requirements are high-qualification,most-reliable and unbelievable accuracy. thanks a lot!

 

[Zen21Tao]

OK here is an idea for hunting. How about a Thomson Encore. You can get seperate barrels for your different needs.

Also, if you have the $$$ how about a .50 Beowulf. That should be enough to drop any bear you come across.

For other suggestions on the correct cartridge for hunting, here is a list that might be helpful:

http://arcticwebsite.com/huntingrifles.html

Black Bear and Deer:

243 Winchester (100 grs.)
6mm Remington (100 grs.)
25-06 Remington (120 grs.)
250 Savage 100 grs.)
257 Roberts+p (117 grs.)
264 Winchester Mag. (140 grs.)
270 Winchester (130 grs.)
280 Remington (140 grs.)
284 Winchester (150 grs.)
7mm Remington Magnum (140grs.)
30-30 Winchester (150 & 170 grs.) Historically used for larger game, but not practical.
30 Government, 30-40 Krag (150 & 180 grs.)
30-06 Springfield (150 grs.)
300 Winchester Magnum (150 grs.)
300 H&H Magnum (180 grs.)
300 Savage (150 grs.)
307 Winchester (180 grs.)
308 Winchester (150 grs.)
338 Winchester 200 & 225 grs.)
35 Remington (200 grs.)
356 Winchester (200 grs.)
358 Winchester (200 grs.)
375 Winchester (200 grs.)
38-40 Winchester (180 grs.) Historically used for larger game, but not practical.
38-55 Winchester (225 grs.) Historically used for larger game. but not practical.
44 Remington Magnum (240 grs)
45-70 Government (300 grs.)

Moose, Caribou, Elk, Dall Sheep, and Mountain Goat:

270 Winchester (140 grs.)
284 Winchester (150grs.)
7mm Remington Magnum (140 & 150 grs.)
30-06 Springfield (150 &165 grs.)
300 winchester Magnum (165, 180 & 220 grs)
300 H&H Magnum (180 grs.)
300 Savage (150 grs.)
307 Winchester (180 grs)
308 Winchester (150 & 180 grs.)
338 Winchester (200 & 230 grs)
356 Winchester (200 grs.)
358 Winchester (200 grs.)
375 Winchester (200 grs.)
45-70 Government (300 grs.)
405 Winchester (300 grs.)

Grizzly Bear, Kodiak Bear, Alaskan Brown Bear, and Polar Bear:

270 Winchester (150 grs.)
284 Winchester (150 grs.)
7mm Remington Magnum (160 & 175 grs)
30-06 Springfield ( 160, 180, & 220 grs.)
300 Winchester Magnum ( 165, 180 & 220 grs.)
300 H&H Magnum (180 grs.)
307 Winchester (180 grs.)
308 Winchester (180 grs.)
338 Winchester (200 & 230 grs.)
356 Winchester (200 grs.)
358 Winchester (200 grs.)
375 H&H Magnum (270 grs.)
375 Winchester (200 grs.)
405 Winchester (300 grs.)

 

[BoySetsTheFire]

Sorry, I can't agree with the post above. I think the starting point for deer and black bear would be .30 cal. I would strat with .308 Win or 30.06. And I mean the full pressure .308 Win and not NATO 7.62. Just my 2¢.

 

[iamkris]

You have received some very good advice in this thread and some VERY BAD advice. Glad to see you have been convinced to go with a 22 LR first.

The .22 LR, contrary to what several are saying here, is not a second rate caliber. It allows you to develop good shooting habits. The elements of marksmanship are

• position
• sight picture
• sight alignment
• breathing
• trigger control
• follow through

It's a lot easier to figure those things out if you don't have crappy triggers (which most SKSs do), recoil, muzzle blast, etc from a larger rifle. Those skills transfer easily when you move to a larger caliber. Bad habits developed when starting with a big bore rifle sometimes take a lifetime to purge.

As they say "it can't hurt". Why not do yourself a favor and start small...go big later. Many of us with a few gray hairs up top find ourselves going back to the simple pleasure of refined marksmanship with a .22 rather than just turning money into noise (I see lots of that at public ranges...young bucks blasting away with a target that looks like they shot it with a shotgun rather than a rifle.)

Anyway -- good choice for going with a .22 LR first.

Oh, and I wouldn't be shooting black bear with an intermediate cartridge. I'd start at .30 cal major caliber. Whoever suggested a lever gun...you could do a lot worse...especially if you go .444 Marlin, .450 Marlin, .45-70.