ruckus3008
Member
what are your opinions on the Kel-tec P11 and the Skyy CPX1? please only respond if you have some experience with both of these.
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Skyy and Kel-Tec
- Thread starter ruckus3008
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I had a Keltec P11, it was ok but it wasnt the most comfortable or accurate pistol to shoot.
It was a fairly small package for 10+1 of 9mm but reliability was always a concern, I had a couple light primer strikes with it (no FTF or FTE's thou) but the light primer strikes made me never completely trusted it for CCW work.
It was a fairly small package for 10+1 of 9mm but reliability was always a concern, I had a couple light primer strikes with it (no FTF or FTE's thou) but the light primer strikes made me never completely trusted it for CCW work.
beachbreak
Member
- Joined
- May 19, 2006
- Messages
- 17
My KelTec P11 was 100% reliable with the ammo I used, WWB 115gr JHP. Also pretty accurate for a close quarters piece. I would recommend it. In this months Combat Handguns one of the writers recommends it for deep concealment.
I have not fired a P11, but have handled and dry-fired them. I own a Skyy CPX-1. The Skyy definately has a better trigger with a smoother, lighter pull. I have about 500 rounds through it now. I had a few FTF early on with WWB ammo (which Skyy warns against), but it has been perfect the last few hundred rounds, even with WWB. It shoots well for a small piece and is quite accurate.
I did break a firing pin from dry-firing it. Skyy warrantee and service is great, though. They did a one day turnaround on it. They say they have gone to a new harder steel for the firing pin now, but still recommend a snap cap for dry-firing (which they plan to add to the manual).
The fit and finish is good. Better than I expected for the price. Take-down and cleaning is very easy and simple. I will probably be buying from them again when their smaller 9MM and 380 come out this summer.
I did break a firing pin from dry-firing it. Skyy warrantee and service is great, though. They did a one day turnaround on it. They say they have gone to a new harder steel for the firing pin now, but still recommend a snap cap for dry-firing (which they plan to add to the manual).
The fit and finish is good. Better than I expected for the price. Take-down and cleaning is very easy and simple. I will probably be buying from them again when their smaller 9MM and 380 come out this summer.
MCgunner
Member
I've not tried the Skyy, but love my Kel Tec P11. Smooth trigger, a little long, but it's what I wanted in a carry piece. I can put 5 rounds into 3 1/2 inches at 25 yards with it to point of aim with my 115 grain Hornady XTP +P handloads. It packs a lot of firepower in a pocket and is quite light weight.
Price on both of 'em is good. It may be one of those six of one, half dozen of the other deals. Might just depend on the deal I could make, but I'm sold on the P11 after 9 years with it. It never bobbled even once on 115 grain JHP and the various cheap 115 grain FMJ stuff I've fed it. It's been 100 percent reliable through thousands of rounds.
Price on both of 'em is good. It may be one of those six of one, half dozen of the other deals. Might just depend on the deal I could make, but I'm sold on the P11 after 9 years with it. It never bobbled even once on 115 grain JHP and the various cheap 115 grain FMJ stuff I've fed it. It's been 100 percent reliable through thousands of rounds.
Timmy44221
Member
- Joined
- May 17, 2006
- Messages
- 4
I never shot either, but I handled the p-11. Its trigger is not the best, but, the PF9 comes out soon. It is smaller, and is supposed to have a much better trigger.
Whirlwind06
Member
I doubt there are that many people that have handled both. Popping a few rounds off with a buddy's gun or handling one in a show room is not the same as carrying day in and day out IMO. How many people are going to spend ~$450 on 2 different pistols that fill the same role?
longtooth
Member
Yep. Only had one. The p11. Wish I had not sold it now. As above. Totally reliable. Poor trigger. Recoil not conducive to ladies or new shooters. Not a learner pistol nor a 10,000 rd competition pistol for sure. Good PD weapon & easy to pocket conceal & carry. Light.
PX15
Member
Kinda hard to find someone with both the KelTec and the Skyy..
I think 456 zillion P11's have been sold, (I own one), and 3 Skyys.
Not much of a base for comparison is there?
My opinion is that since Skyy is simply a copy of KelTec's they are probably pretty good. I understand the basic difference is that the Skyy has an external safety, which for the life of me I don't understand...
An external safety on a DAO pistol seems kinda silly, but maybe Skyy hopes the folks incarcerated in the state of California will buy them..?
If imitation is the most sincere form of flattery then Skyy has certainly been most sincere in flattering KelTec.
I have owned two KT's for several years (P11&P32). Both have been excellent, and did not need any "fluff 'n buff" or whatever. They were reliable and accurate right out of the cheap white boxes..
Oh.. I DO think Skyy's black plastic boxes are better than the cheap white cardboard boxes of the KT's.
You listening KT management?
(Kinda says good things about a firearms manufacturer that the only complaint about their products is the quality of the box the pistol comes in.)
JMOFO
J. Pomeroy
I think 456 zillion P11's have been sold, (I own one), and 3 Skyys.
Not much of a base for comparison is there?
My opinion is that since Skyy is simply a copy of KelTec's they are probably pretty good. I understand the basic difference is that the Skyy has an external safety, which for the life of me I don't understand...
An external safety on a DAO pistol seems kinda silly, but maybe Skyy hopes the folks incarcerated in the state of California will buy them..?
If imitation is the most sincere form of flattery then Skyy has certainly been most sincere in flattering KelTec.
I have owned two KT's for several years (P11&P32). Both have been excellent, and did not need any "fluff 'n buff" or whatever. They were reliable and accurate right out of the cheap white boxes..
Oh.. I DO think Skyy's black plastic boxes are better than the cheap white cardboard boxes of the KT's.
You listening KT management?
(Kinda says good things about a firearms manufacturer that the only complaint about their products is the quality of the box the pistol comes in.)
JMOFO
J. Pomeroy
If you haven't already done so, check out the bulletin board of
http://www.ktog.org/
This site can give you all the information you need on all Kel-Tec's models. Additionally, a while back there was a very long thread about Skyy's pistols and comparing them to Kel-Tec.
http://www.ktog.org/
This site can give you all the information you need on all Kel-Tec's models. Additionally, a while back there was a very long thread about Skyy's pistols and comparing them to Kel-Tec.
MCgunner
Member
Hey, my P11 came in a nice black plastic case. White box??? What white box???
PX15
Member
McGunner:
Man!
Don't tell me I got hosed on BOTH pistol boxes...
Of course I've had my P11 for about 3yrs and the P32 for about two, so maybe they upgraded the cardboard to plastic somewhere along the line?
About the boxes:
I was just kiddin' of course, as the boxes are put away in the closet, and as long as the pistols shoot fine (and they do) it doesn't matter to me what they come in.
Actually, I think my NAA Guardian came in a cardboard box, KelTec in a cardboard box, and the S&W Escort came with NO box. (But a nice S&W zip pouch.)
Have a great holiday weekend!
JP
Man!
Don't tell me I got hosed on BOTH pistol boxes...
Of course I've had my P11 for about 3yrs and the P32 for about two, so maybe they upgraded the cardboard to plastic somewhere along the line?
About the boxes:
I was just kiddin' of course, as the boxes are put away in the closet, and as long as the pistols shoot fine (and they do) it doesn't matter to me what they come in.
Actually, I think my NAA Guardian came in a cardboard box, KelTec in a cardboard box, and the S&W Escort came with NO box. (But a nice S&W zip pouch.)
Have a great holiday weekend!
JP
As was already stated, I'm sure that the Skyy owners are much smaller in number than the Kel-tec owners, so hope you will foregive my speaking up more than once.
Many have accused Skyy of copying the Kel-tec and anyone looking at both would have to be a fool to think that the designer of the CPX-1 had never seen a P11. However, according to all those who have reported trying (on www.skyyforum.com) none of the pieces, including mags and slides, will interchange between the two. The biggest difference is in the area of the trigger mechanism. The Skyy trigger is extremely consistent from start to break. Most everyone who has taken both apart also comments that there much fewer machine marks inside the Skyy.
The Skyy doesn't have the long track record of reliability that most of us want to see in a carry peice, but they do have that small company style of great service and support and seem to be addressing every issue that has come up. I think they are on their way to getting there. I believe the SNs on the CPX-1s shipping are in the 2XXX to 3XXX range now.
The safety does seem useless to me on a DAO. Still some people just want one or live in states that think they should have one. There is some talk of a kit to allow you to remove it and cover the opening.
Before anyone asks, I have no affiliation with Skyy other than being a customer. I have no desire to rub the fur the wrong direction on any Kel-tec owners.
Many have accused Skyy of copying the Kel-tec and anyone looking at both would have to be a fool to think that the designer of the CPX-1 had never seen a P11. However, according to all those who have reported trying (on www.skyyforum.com) none of the pieces, including mags and slides, will interchange between the two. The biggest difference is in the area of the trigger mechanism. The Skyy trigger is extremely consistent from start to break. Most everyone who has taken both apart also comments that there much fewer machine marks inside the Skyy.
The Skyy doesn't have the long track record of reliability that most of us want to see in a carry peice, but they do have that small company style of great service and support and seem to be addressing every issue that has come up. I think they are on their way to getting there. I believe the SNs on the CPX-1s shipping are in the 2XXX to 3XXX range now.
The safety does seem useless to me on a DAO. Still some people just want one or live in states that think they should have one. There is some talk of a kit to allow you to remove it and cover the opening.
Before anyone asks, I have no affiliation with Skyy other than being a customer. I have no desire to rub the fur the wrong direction on any Kel-tec owners.
I have handled both of them. It is hard to say which one I like less. Both are pretty lame and I would have my doubts if either of them work but if I had to pick a winner (or less of a loser) I would just pick the Skyy. I know Kel-Tec is junk, at least with the Skyy, you have a chance of getting a working gun.
There is no way I would consider either of them. Get a Bersa or a Mak and you will be WAY ahead! I would rather have 7-8 rds of .380 or 9x18 that I knew would fire than 10 rds of 9mm out of a gun that I wouldn't trust. Maks and Bersa work, some Kel-Kraps work some don't. I can't speak too much about the SKYY other than it didn't impress me.
There is no way I would consider either of them. Get a Bersa or a Mak and you will be WAY ahead! I would rather have 7-8 rds of .380 or 9x18 that I knew would fire than 10 rds of 9mm out of a gun that I wouldn't trust. Maks and Bersa work, some Kel-Kraps work some don't. I can't speak too much about the SKYY other than it didn't impress me.
I haven't just handled a P-11, I have shot one extensively. I have found it to be a reliable and powerful carry gun. I am not possessed of paranormal powers, so I cant just touch a gun and tell what the quality of it is, so though I have picked up a Skye, I can't comment.
Browns Fan
Member
PX15, for the record, Skyy CPX1's come in a cardboard red box. At least mine did. The only thing I dont like about the Skyy is that recoil is pretty stout for a 9mm. Hows the recoil of the Keltec?
PX15
Member
Browns Fan: Man! You got hosed too!! I was sure the picture on the Ke..ugh.. Skyy website showed the pistols in a neat black plastic box..
I need to go back and check that out! As for your question about recoil with my P11, I haven't found it to be objectionable. I've got several 9's, and it doesn't seem substantially any different from those. The P11 does have a long trigger, but I prefer that with a da cc pistol. I don't do(try not to) AD's, and the long da trigger pull on the KelTec suits my needs perfectly.
My opinion on the Skyy has always been clouded by the controversy created by the VP when he had a brain fart on the KelTec site. Let's just say it wasn't his finest hour, but he apparently is a young man, and hopefully he learned that lying to sell your product is counter-productive. I wish him & Skyy the best of luck, but I won't buy one. I'm sure you have a fine pistol and will enjoy it for a long time.
As for "albanian":
I've owned a KelTec P11 for several years. With quality ammo (this excludes wwwb 9mm ammo) it has been 100% reliable and very accurate at self defense range. (7-10yards). It is not a target pistol, nor was it designed to be one. I also own a KelTec P32, and it has the same performance record. My understanding is that KelTec continues to sell every pistol they can make, and I'm sure that your distain for a pistol you've never even shot worries the heck out of them. I own a Bersa too by the way, (and a Firestorm). I consider both the Bersa and Firestorm to be excellent pistols. No better than my KelTec's, but excellent pistols.
I'm not sure making a decision on the quality of a firearm, or firearms, simply by "handling" one makes any sense, but hey, whatever floats your boat.
Best Wishes,
J.P.
I need to go back and check that out! As for your question about recoil with my P11, I haven't found it to be objectionable. I've got several 9's, and it doesn't seem substantially any different from those. The P11 does have a long trigger, but I prefer that with a da cc pistol. I don't do(try not to) AD's, and the long da trigger pull on the KelTec suits my needs perfectly.
My opinion on the Skyy has always been clouded by the controversy created by the VP when he had a brain fart on the KelTec site. Let's just say it wasn't his finest hour, but he apparently is a young man, and hopefully he learned that lying to sell your product is counter-productive. I wish him & Skyy the best of luck, but I won't buy one. I'm sure you have a fine pistol and will enjoy it for a long time.
As for "albanian":
I've owned a KelTec P11 for several years. With quality ammo (this excludes wwwb 9mm ammo) it has been 100% reliable and very accurate at self defense range. (7-10yards). It is not a target pistol, nor was it designed to be one. I also own a KelTec P32, and it has the same performance record. My understanding is that KelTec continues to sell every pistol they can make, and I'm sure that your distain for a pistol you've never even shot worries the heck out of them. I own a Bersa too by the way, (and a Firestorm). I consider both the Bersa and Firestorm to be excellent pistols. No better than my KelTec's, but excellent pistols.
I'm not sure making a decision on the quality of a firearm, or firearms, simply by "handling" one makes any sense, but hey, whatever floats your boat.
Best Wishes,
J.P.
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1 old 0311
member
Hi PX15,
I believe that is known as wisdom gained vicariously. Fortunately a lot of us are capable of learning from the mistakes of others.
Kevin
I believe that is known as wisdom gained vicariously. Fortunately a lot of us are capable of learning from the mistakes of others.
Kevin
PX15
Member
Kevin Quinlin:
You might be right...
Best Wishes,
J.P.
You might be right...
Best Wishes,
J.P.
I’ve owned both guns; the P11 and Skyy 9mm, though not at the same time.
The Skyy felt a bit smoother in handling and operation. Pretty nice trigger. I think the P11 I had needed more break-in than I gave it. The Skyy to me is not much different in size than a Glock 26, though lighter. A good gun. Recoil in both guns seemed pretty much the same; stout but quite manageable. The only problem I had with the Skyy was MY tendency to knock the safety into safe mode when firing. This was a flaw in how I gripped the gun, but I never could find a way around it. Just another example of how one size does not fit all and guns are prone to personal fit. Skyy’s customer service and response to my emails was top-notch.
The Skyy felt a bit smoother in handling and operation. Pretty nice trigger. I think the P11 I had needed more break-in than I gave it. The Skyy to me is not much different in size than a Glock 26, though lighter. A good gun. Recoil in both guns seemed pretty much the same; stout but quite manageable. The only problem I had with the Skyy was MY tendency to knock the safety into safe mode when firing. This was a flaw in how I gripped the gun, but I never could find a way around it. Just another example of how one size does not fit all and guns are prone to personal fit. Skyy’s customer service and response to my emails was top-notch.
Wilson 17&26
Member
There one thing I don’t get. If Skyy is copying Kel-Tec why didn’t they copy the 12-round flush fitting (formerly LEO) magazine. It just seems strange that the CPX1 only holds 9+1 while the same size P-11 will hold 12+1. I’ve also read that Skyy doesn’t recommend +P ammo while Kel-Tec says it’s OK but just not as a steady diet. I suspect the pistols are more different than they look
PX15
Member
Wilson 17&26:
Please remember that anything you read on these forums are opinions... Personal opinions, based on first hand information, or second hand information, or no information at all.
I have two KelTec's and they have both been excellent pistols. Because of the nature of the nitch KT was shooting for they are by design small and light. KT had teething problems with each of their pistols in the early series. It seems the 40cal was just too much "bullet" for the pistol, or too much recoil for the owners.. Whatever it was dropped. The P11 has been around a long time and has a great reputation for reliability, and offers a lot of firepower in a very small package. The P3AT has been problemmatic, but it seems the P32 has been the most reliable of the group.. All of this is "generally speaking"... Both of my pistols have required nothing. Load and shoot...
Take a look at the Skyy and the KT side by side and you will see the Skyy is "basically" a clone of the KT P11.. Soon to be followed by a clone of the slim 9, and clone of the 380.. There ARE distinct differences, as if there weren't a lawsuit would probably ensue...
If you have an interest in a cc pistol with less rounds, of lesser power, and desire an external safety on a DAO pistol, then Skyy is ready when you are.
I read, and have posted on the Skyy forum.. Because of the situation regarding the VP of Skyy and the KT forum I have just been put off of the Skyy's in general. That is NOT to say the Skyy's are not excellent firearms, just that I have formed a negative opinion regarding some Skyy management that I simply am having trouble overcoming.
I might suggest you read, join, and post on the SKyy forum. You will find I am sure a great number of happy Skyy owners. Do the same for KT, then judge for yourself.
The pistols are so close in almost every aspect that you will be well served with either.....
Notice I'm trying to be "nicer and kinder" regarding Skyy, and just because I personally prefer the KelTec pistols means absolutely nothing regarding what you might want in a self defense firearm.
Fortunately the American firearms market offers so many options to buyers that we all at some time or another get confused...
I think it is a good thing that both Skyy and KelTec are American made, IN AMERICA.. That's reason enough to give either of them a serious look.
Best Wishes, and if I offended or confused you with either post I apologize.
JP
Please remember that anything you read on these forums are opinions... Personal opinions, based on first hand information, or second hand information, or no information at all.
I have two KelTec's and they have both been excellent pistols. Because of the nature of the nitch KT was shooting for they are by design small and light. KT had teething problems with each of their pistols in the early series. It seems the 40cal was just too much "bullet" for the pistol, or too much recoil for the owners.. Whatever it was dropped. The P11 has been around a long time and has a great reputation for reliability, and offers a lot of firepower in a very small package. The P3AT has been problemmatic, but it seems the P32 has been the most reliable of the group.. All of this is "generally speaking"... Both of my pistols have required nothing. Load and shoot...
Take a look at the Skyy and the KT side by side and you will see the Skyy is "basically" a clone of the KT P11.. Soon to be followed by a clone of the slim 9, and clone of the 380.. There ARE distinct differences, as if there weren't a lawsuit would probably ensue...
If you have an interest in a cc pistol with less rounds, of lesser power, and desire an external safety on a DAO pistol, then Skyy is ready when you are.
I read, and have posted on the Skyy forum.. Because of the situation regarding the VP of Skyy and the KT forum I have just been put off of the Skyy's in general. That is NOT to say the Skyy's are not excellent firearms, just that I have formed a negative opinion regarding some Skyy management that I simply am having trouble overcoming.
I might suggest you read, join, and post on the SKyy forum. You will find I am sure a great number of happy Skyy owners. Do the same for KT, then judge for yourself.
The pistols are so close in almost every aspect that you will be well served with either.....
Notice I'm trying to be "nicer and kinder" regarding Skyy, and just because I personally prefer the KelTec pistols means absolutely nothing regarding what you might want in a self defense firearm.
Fortunately the American firearms market offers so many options to buyers that we all at some time or another get confused...
I think it is a good thing that both Skyy and KelTec are American made, IN AMERICA.. That's reason enough to give either of them a serious look.
Best Wishes, and if I offended or confused you with either post I apologize.
JP
I had a KT P11 for about a year, bought it as a "gun to carry when I don't feel like carrying a gun."
I put about 1000 rounds of various 9mm through it during the time I owned it. I eventually came to the conclusion that for me, this gun had a terrible trigger that was not improving with use, making it impossible to shoot quickly or accurately. In my hands it was nothing more than a very reliable noise maker. Pretty much useless in a self defense situation, at least compared to the alternatives.
Had the Skyy been out at the time, I would certainly have considered it. I ended up buying a P3AT, I like it MUCH better. I think the newer Kel-tec 9mm and the Skyy would make a better comparision. If the trigger is as improved as I've been hearing, I may have to give them both a good look.
I put about 1000 rounds of various 9mm through it during the time I owned it. I eventually came to the conclusion that for me, this gun had a terrible trigger that was not improving with use, making it impossible to shoot quickly or accurately. In my hands it was nothing more than a very reliable noise maker. Pretty much useless in a self defense situation, at least compared to the alternatives.
Had the Skyy been out at the time, I would certainly have considered it. I ended up buying a P3AT, I like it MUCH better. I think the newer Kel-tec 9mm and the Skyy would make a better comparision. If the trigger is as improved as I've been hearing, I may have to give them both a good look.
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