You know those people who aren't necessarily gun smiths but can take an AK parts kit and slap it into a plinker? Exactly where does one learn how to do that stuff? I know there's websites, and do it yourself books, etc but where does one get hands on experience? Or do I have to go to a gunsmithing school and if so is there a directory someone can give me of these places? I'd love to do this stuff for a living.
Slapping guns together from parts kits
- Thread starter greenr18
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well lets see, there's quite a few options for people like me when i get in the mood to do something like that (by people like me i mean those with no formal training and nothing but a few, very very few tools)
let me first start by saying with a little bit o' creativity your options are limitless you can build anything you can think of.
some projects are a little easier than than others. let me try and list these main options starting with ease of construction. but first let me differentiate the "firearm" from the "parts kit." there is only one piece on a working gun that is considered the firearm is really the frame or receiver, which is controlled in sales and individually serial numbered. the rest are just spare parts, no different than anything else you buy like tools or groceries
first and easiest, buy all the parts of a gun and put it together, for this you need an ffl to transfer the frame to you and get the rest of the parts from wherever probably somewhere from the depths of the internet. the drawbacks to this are that you must take the background check, and you now have a regular gun, same as if you bought it whole, b/c of the frame it is linked to you by serial number (i don't want to say registered b/c supposedly there's no "registration" just a method in place to trace guns back to their owners) the benefit here is that you normally wont need any machines and just basic hand tools to have a working firearm.
next you can get a frame (or receiver) that has only been machined 80% of the way, since it is only machined 80% the batfe doesn't consider this a firearm, meaning you can order them sans 4473 and have an off paper firearm. now it starts getting tough, dependent on what you want to build. you have to be able to complete the last phases of machine work.
a. for the ak frame you have two basic options, you can buy a flat piece of metal that was machined exactly like and ak receiver, but flat, you have to put two 90 degree angles into it and weld (or rivet) the bolt rails.
b. you can buy a bent piece of metal but that has none of the required slots and holes put on it.
with 80% or less receivers you have lots of options, you can build an AR, AK, CETME, FAL, sig 22x, beretta 92, 1911, 10/22 and probably a bunch of others oh yea, Thompson sub machine gun, stens and other tube guns as well.
next you can get really creative and just wild out making everything at home, including the frame this is the hardest and i ran out of time so you can look it up more yourself
go here for excellent info, you have to register to view all the forums
www.homegunsmith.com
i especially recommend the "hall of fame" forum and the "ask a guru" forum. but you have a lot more reading to do
www.thehomegunsmith.com
http://ktordnance.com/kto/
http://www.tanneryshop.com/
www.ar15plus.com
let me first start by saying with a little bit o' creativity your options are limitless you can build anything you can think of.
some projects are a little easier than than others. let me try and list these main options starting with ease of construction. but first let me differentiate the "firearm" from the "parts kit." there is only one piece on a working gun that is considered the firearm is really the frame or receiver, which is controlled in sales and individually serial numbered. the rest are just spare parts, no different than anything else you buy like tools or groceries
first and easiest, buy all the parts of a gun and put it together, for this you need an ffl to transfer the frame to you and get the rest of the parts from wherever probably somewhere from the depths of the internet. the drawbacks to this are that you must take the background check, and you now have a regular gun, same as if you bought it whole, b/c of the frame it is linked to you by serial number (i don't want to say registered b/c supposedly there's no "registration" just a method in place to trace guns back to their owners) the benefit here is that you normally wont need any machines and just basic hand tools to have a working firearm.
next you can get a frame (or receiver) that has only been machined 80% of the way, since it is only machined 80% the batfe doesn't consider this a firearm, meaning you can order them sans 4473 and have an off paper firearm. now it starts getting tough, dependent on what you want to build. you have to be able to complete the last phases of machine work.
a. for the ak frame you have two basic options, you can buy a flat piece of metal that was machined exactly like and ak receiver, but flat, you have to put two 90 degree angles into it and weld (or rivet) the bolt rails.
b. you can buy a bent piece of metal but that has none of the required slots and holes put on it.
with 80% or less receivers you have lots of options, you can build an AR, AK, CETME, FAL, sig 22x, beretta 92, 1911, 10/22 and probably a bunch of others oh yea, Thompson sub machine gun, stens and other tube guns as well.
next you can get really creative and just wild out making everything at home, including the frame this is the hardest and i ran out of time so you can look it up more yourself
go here for excellent info, you have to register to view all the forums
www.homegunsmith.com
i especially recommend the "hall of fame" forum and the "ask a guru" forum. but you have a lot more reading to do
www.thehomegunsmith.com
http://ktordnance.com/kto/
http://www.tanneryshop.com/
www.ar15plus.com
Flyboy
Member
No, you have an off-paper not-a-firearm. If you decide to make the lump of metal into a firearm (finish the machining), you get to fill out the Form 1 for your manufacture of a firearm (or such is my understanding; please correct me if I'm wrong).
A "sub machine gun" would be an NFA item, and would win you an all-expenses-paid* vacation to Club Fed. A Sten or anything else firing from an open bolt, even if semi-auto-only, would at least get some heavy scrutiny, and probably be ruled to be "readily convertible" to a machine gun. Again with the vacation.
Yes, it is legal to make firearms for yourself; that said, it's a minefield if you don't know what you're doing, and the ATF has no sense of humor.
* Does not include legal or other incidental expenses
expvideo
Member
Go to ak47.net and research how to build an AK. Spend at least 40 hours researching. At the end of that 40 hours, you will feel like you have already built several AKs.
Now buy the proper equipment, get some receiver flats or finished receivers, and go to work. Make sure to test your first few builds extensively after you have a gunsmith inspect them for quality and safety.
Now buy the proper equipment, get some receiver flats or finished receivers, and go to work. Make sure to test your first few builds extensively after you have a gunsmith inspect them for quality and safety.
If you follow the AR15.com instructions for ARs then it isn't difficult. If you do some reading on tips and tricks it is actually easy.
In other words, if I can do it with an AR anyone can.
OTOH, building AKs requires a shop with a press. Pressing AK flats to receivers requires jigs and forms to go with that shop. Not something that I'd be willing to try without some instruction.
In other words, if I can do it with an AR anyone can.
OTOH, building AKs requires a shop with a press. Pressing AK flats to receivers requires jigs and forms to go with that shop. Not something that I'd be willing to try without some instruction.
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WardenWolf
member
AK receiver flats are NOT classified as firearms until they are bent. They need to be properly bent into place and then heat treated. The good news is there are a few US companies that make AK receiver flats. You can, in fact, build a working AK using only US parts.
Flyboy
Member
I may be wrong on the form, but I would have sworn that you had to file paperwork when you build a new gun.
Building your own gun for your personal use versus building one for production is a whole different matter. Production guns go through a different progress, especially ones that of a new design. A good example of this is this p90 shotgun made to be pump action only. There is a fear that making a semi-auto version would not pass ATF scrutiny, so they are opting for pump action only.
Also Home-made guns (unserialized) cannot be sold in interstate commerce.
Also Home-made guns (unserialized) cannot be sold in interstate commerce.
nalioth
Member
I'd say you've missed the boat.greenr18 said:
Kits are no longer cheap, nor complete (barrel ban).
For personal use, no form is necessary unless you plan on building an NFA weapon.Flyboy said:
For "a living", appropriate business licenses and an FFL + SOT will be in order.
I suggest you reread the laws. Homemade-from-a-flat guns can be sold anywhere, any time so long as they are marked according to the requirements of law.daskro said:
Would "I" personally sell a homemade-from-a-flat gun? HECK NO, not with the possible liability awaiting. It is still legal, though.
Flyboy,
You're allowed to build one a year for personal use. You don't have to put a serial number on it, but it certainly keeps people from asking uncomfortable questions at the range if you do.
There is a great article on this that ran in Shotgun News a while back.
You're allowed to build one a year for personal use. You don't have to put a serial number on it, but it certainly keeps people from asking uncomfortable questions at the range if you do.
There is a great article on this that ran in Shotgun News a while back.
nalioth
Member
You can build as many as you like for personal use.hso said:
I'm not sure where the 'one a year' keeps popping in from.
So long as they are marked with a serial number and the manufacturers name and address (yours) to a certain depth into the metal (I can't remember the exact depth atm) you can sell a home build.daskro said:
What happens when you start selling home builds w/o an FFL + SOT is that the tax men throw you in jail. Everyone knows the tax men have no sense of humor.
Not to mention the previously mentioned liability you'd assume when doing so.
nalioth,
I had two sources. The article from Shotgun News on building you own AK from a flat stated this and I asked an AK builder that told me the same. In short, as long as you didn't duplicate any given "model" you could build one of any given model in a year. Yugo fixed + Yugo underfolder, no problem. Yugo underfolder + Yugo underfolder, problem.
If what I was told is incorrect, my apologies.
I had two sources. The article from Shotgun News on building you own AK from a flat stated this and I asked an AK builder that told me the same. In short, as long as you didn't duplicate any given "model" you could build one of any given model in a year. Yugo fixed + Yugo underfolder, no problem. Yugo underfolder + Yugo underfolder, problem.
If what I was told is incorrect, my apologies.
moooose102
Member
IMO, you should never "slap together" any gun, in any manner, for any reason, other than your life is going to end if you do not. firearms should be assembled carefully, and thoughtfully, for everones safety.
bobotech
Member
I don't get the once-a-year thing either. You can build as many guns as you want for personal use.
Building an AR is nothing more than putting together some legos. Building an AK can take a fair amount more of talent with having to demil the kit properly and removing/replacing the barrel, and installing rivets or screws.
I agree though, anyone just NOW getting into building AKs has missed that boat.
The golden age was the early 2000's (which I missed). I jumped in at around 2006 when the kits were still reasonable but we were seeing the end of the line.
I can't believe that a pair of Yugo kits I have are easily worth 350+ dollars each that I paid 59 dollars for.
Building an AR is nothing more than putting together some legos. Building an AK can take a fair amount more of talent with having to demil the kit properly and removing/replacing the barrel, and installing rivets or screws.
I agree though, anyone just NOW getting into building AKs has missed that boat.
The golden age was the early 2000's (which I missed). I jumped in at around 2006 when the kits were still reasonable but we were seeing the end of the line.
I can't believe that a pair of Yugo kits I have are easily worth 350+ dollars each that I paid 59 dollars for.
scrat
Member
just like most people here. I have machine shop experience a lot and a lot of mechanics experience. Does that qualify me as a gunsmith. NO. however it does make it easier for me to follow a set of instructions. It also makes me a little more knowledgeable on the metals, components and material. When something breaks i can buy a replacement piece or make my own. If you are going to really get into the mechanics of guns nothing beats a good gunsmithing school. However same time knowing mechanics and machinery have a huge advantage.
AndrewKy
Member
AK47 kits
were can you buy complete AK47 kits from?
were can you buy complete AK47 kits from?
expvideo
Member
Absolutely good advice. To get that instruction, go on to AK47.net and look through the forums. Eventually someone around you will be organizing a "build party", where forum members get together in someone's shop and use the tools to build their AKs. You will find people there that have built them before and will help you.
I believe that you were misinformed. From what I have read, you can build as many rifles as you want, but not with the intent to sell them. You can sell them (this may be the 1 per year thing), but you can't have built them with that purpose in mind. It's hard to prove that you did, but again, that might be the 1 per year thing that you heard about.
No offense HSO, but hearsay + published hearsay does not = law. But that being said, I don't have the law handy to prove your points wrong, so I'm not one to talk. I do believe that you may have been misinformed though, so it is worth researching, but I should have gone to bed about three hours ago, so I don't really have the energy to look it up.
bobotech
Member
AndrewKY said:
You pretty much can't unless you are willing to pay almost 400 dollars these days for kits with barrels. www.gunthings.com might have something.
The only place you can find kits frequently are in the secondary markets, classifieds at various AK forums.
Forget about finding any kits for under 250 dollars that still have the intact original barrels.
If you don't have any kits not, you might as well forget about getting into the AK building hobby this late in the game.
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