I am 67 with a bad heart so I have lost much of my strength. I put a 20# recoil spring in my 1911 copy and found that I could nor rack the slide more than halfway. Many ideas, drawings, went to Wal-Mart for parts and material to make my own device so I could rack any slide with ease. I found that somebody had made a clamp for carpenters,I think, called "Quick-Grip handi-clamp" and when I saw one I knew this would be exactly what I was looking for. Bought two, $4.95 each, went home and held the pistol grip with my laft hand and held the clamp with my right and snuk up behind the 1911 slide and grabbed it where the grooves are at the rear of the slide. The clamp has a cam locking device so I just squeezed tight and then pulled back with the clamp and racked the slide five or six times with ease. Then I pressed the release lever between the handles and the clamp released. I had planned to design and make a device but this clamp works better than any idea that I had. I have ordered the smaller models, this is a 200, for my smaller pistols. I can now rack any slides with ease.
Slide Racking
- Thread starter Deles136
- Start date
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P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
Sounds like an excellent .... and inexpensive solution deles!
10-Ring
Member
Quite ingenious!
longeyes
member
16# spring would help. Any reason for a 20? Cocking the hammer first
will make it somewhat easier to rack slide.
will make it somewhat easier to rack slide.
I installed the 20 to reduce the felt recoil and to reduce the beating to the pistol every time it is fired. I don't know your age but if you were over 65 and 6 feet and 150 pounds I think you might understand the situation a little better. This is not the only pistol I fire and the shape of some of them combined with the various recoil spring pressures often makes it very hard for me to rack the slides. I put this information on the list for the benefit of anyone like me who has difficulty racking slides. There are probably many things I could do differently but after shooting pistols for the last 55 years I think I have tried just about everything that I thought might help me with any pistol problems. Thank you for your suggestions.
lycanthrope
Member
I run my 1911 full size with a 17 lb mainspring and a 14 lb recoil spring. A lighter recoil spring will reduce the perceived recoil, not the other way around. Running lighter springs will also reduce muzzle flip SUBSTANTIALLY. In my 5" Kimber this setup has never failed to light a primer or to feed. For $20 from brownells it's worth the time to try.
I run a shok buff to reduce any battering although without it there has been no sign of problem. The trick to reliability with the buff is to trim the edges of the buff and to sand down any sharp edges of the slide that come in contact with it. My current buff has 1000+ rounds with no cutting.
In absence of all this you could always have the slide milled to accept a slide racker, which is essentially what you have used.
I run a shok buff to reduce any battering although without it there has been no sign of problem. The trick to reliability with the buff is to trim the edges of the buff and to sand down any sharp edges of the slide that come in contact with it. My current buff has 1000+ rounds with no cutting.
In absence of all this you could always have the slide milled to accept a slide racker, which is essentially what you have used.
stans
Member
Shmackey is right on the money!!! Why not try a Wolfe variable 16 or 18 pound spring and cock the hammer before racking the slide. If you are really worried about battering the slide and frame, use a CP Bullets Tufbuff recoil buffer on the guide rod. Of course, John Browning and the U.S. Army designed the 1911 to function for nearly forever with a standard rate 16 pound spring and no buffers.
My apologies to anyone who may have found my second post a little short. I often have trouble saying what I mean to say.
I posted the information about the Quick-Grip, which I found out was made by the same company that makes Vise-Grip products, because I was trying to get a message out to people who are old, people with arthritis problems, people who have had a heart attack or stroke, anyone who has trouble being able to grip the slide on a pistol. I had one man post a reply, on another list, that he would buy a clamp because his 12 year old son could rack a Kel-Tec P-32 but could not handle the 9 mm P-11 model. He also said that after his heart attack he could have used the clamp until his strength returned. These are the type of people I was trying to get the message to and I had no intention of starting a gun modification discussion.
I have tried every recoil spring sold by Wolff along with every hammer or main spring I could get from Brownells and all possible combinations of the two. I have also tried three triggers and two hammers and new sears and disconnectors and all new pins and I coated all of the parts with Militec-1 and heated them in an oven at 150 degrees for three hours. I have tried six different sear springs and I have tried different bends to find the best combination for a trigger pull that suited me. I am trying to say that I don't think that I need to make any more changes to my pistol. I was just trying to help people with a loss of grip strength in their hands.
Thanks to all who have tried to help me. If my posts offend it is usually because I don't always get my message out the way I mean to.
Again, thank you.
I posted the information about the Quick-Grip, which I found out was made by the same company that makes Vise-Grip products, because I was trying to get a message out to people who are old, people with arthritis problems, people who have had a heart attack or stroke, anyone who has trouble being able to grip the slide on a pistol. I had one man post a reply, on another list, that he would buy a clamp because his 12 year old son could rack a Kel-Tec P-32 but could not handle the 9 mm P-11 model. He also said that after his heart attack he could have used the clamp until his strength returned. These are the type of people I was trying to get the message to and I had no intention of starting a gun modification discussion.
I have tried every recoil spring sold by Wolff along with every hammer or main spring I could get from Brownells and all possible combinations of the two. I have also tried three triggers and two hammers and new sears and disconnectors and all new pins and I coated all of the parts with Militec-1 and heated them in an oven at 150 degrees for three hours. I have tried six different sear springs and I have tried different bends to find the best combination for a trigger pull that suited me. I am trying to say that I don't think that I need to make any more changes to my pistol. I was just trying to help people with a loss of grip strength in their hands.
Thanks to all who have tried to help me. If my posts offend it is usually because I don't always get my message out the way I mean to.
Again, thank you.
stans
Member
I would think clamping the slide so you can rack it would be a bit cumbersome in a stressful situation (self defense) and could possibly damage the slide, thus reducing any resale value. Perhaps a revolver would be a better choice?
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
re SPrings and Arthritis
Howdy Deles.
Your best fix would be to use a 14 or 16 pound recoil spring.
20 is way too much spring for a 5-inch gun, and can cause
other problems with feeding and short-cycle ejection. Most new Colt Government Models that I've examined come with a spring that test at 14 to 15 pounds. Schmackey was correct in his statement that the
gun will take the impact, and you will likely run out of money
trying to damage a frame with factory standard ammunition.
I've found that heavier springs tend to tire my hand more quickly
than lighter ones, and that may affect your grip after a 50-round
string, and increase your pain level.
Many of the IDPA and IPSC game players play with recoil spring rates
to put the sights back on target quicker, and the trend has been toward
lighter springs without notable damage to their guns. Those
guys don't waste a trip to the practice range without shooting
several hundred rounds in a session.
Racking the slide with the hammer cocked and an overhand
grip on top of the slide may help make it a little easier for you.
Remember to keep your finger clear of the trigger, because your
left wrist will be in the path of the muzzle blast should the gun fire.
Not that it's an unsafe way to load the chamber, but certain precautions
have to be observed. The overhand rack is my preferred method.
I admire a man who is so dedicated to continuing to enjoy his
pistol, that he strives to find a way to do it, even though it
causes him pain. Hats off to you sir!
Hope this helps,
Tuner
Howdy Deles.
Your best fix would be to use a 14 or 16 pound recoil spring.
20 is way too much spring for a 5-inch gun, and can cause
other problems with feeding and short-cycle ejection. Most new Colt Government Models that I've examined come with a spring that test at 14 to 15 pounds. Schmackey was correct in his statement that the
gun will take the impact, and you will likely run out of money
trying to damage a frame with factory standard ammunition.
I've found that heavier springs tend to tire my hand more quickly
than lighter ones, and that may affect your grip after a 50-round
string, and increase your pain level.
Many of the IDPA and IPSC game players play with recoil spring rates
to put the sights back on target quicker, and the trend has been toward
lighter springs without notable damage to their guns. Those
guys don't waste a trip to the practice range without shooting
several hundred rounds in a session.
Racking the slide with the hammer cocked and an overhand
grip on top of the slide may help make it a little easier for you.
Remember to keep your finger clear of the trigger, because your
left wrist will be in the path of the muzzle blast should the gun fire.
Not that it's an unsafe way to load the chamber, but certain precautions
have to be observed. The overhand rack is my preferred method.
I admire a man who is so dedicated to continuing to enjoy his
pistol, that he strives to find a way to do it, even though it
causes him pain. Hats off to you sir!
Hope this helps,
Tuner
stans - I have many revolvers and many pistols. This clamp is operated by the pressure of your grip and the pressure it puts on the slide is maybe just slightly more than your hand grip pressure. It has rubber like material on the face of the jaws to protect the finish of anything it is used on. If you have a pistol that has a slide that could be damaged by the pressure of your grip then I would suggest that you not fire the pistol unless you just happen to have a grip that can bend steel. Any pistol that I own that might be used for any type of emergency situation always has a live round chambered and the magazine full of ammunition that I have tested and know to be reliable in that pistol. When I am in my home I have a Kel-Tec P-32 pistol in my left front pocket and a Taurus model 85- 38 special revolver in a holster on my belt. When I walk out of my house I often put my Taurus PT-145 in my back pocket. The various pistols and revolvers that are kept in concealed locations in my house and my shop are always loaded and ready to fire without racking the slide or even cocking the hammer as they are all double action. When I travel I always have at least two pistols loaded and ready for easy access in my car along with the pistols in my pockets and in holsters on my belt. I do not use the clamp in battle, I am just starting to loose my grip strength due to being 67 years old and having problems with arthritis and having congestive heart failure which keeps me from doing as many physical activities as I used to. I would suggest that you buy one of these clamps for about $5.00 the next time your are in a hardware store and give it a try. If it is of no value to you then you can return it but at least you will know how it works so that the next time you post a reply to my post we will be on equal ground with the discussion. Many thanks.
1911 Tuner - I do not agree with you about using lower weight springs in the older model 1911 style pistols as I believe that this will cause the
timing of the pistol to change and the slide will start back too soon and your shot pattern will suffer as a result. The pistol that I am working on with the 20# spring is a 1927 model Colt made in Argentina. I only shoot full load factory ammunition. As I stated in my previous post, I do not have a pistol problem. I have a physical problem that makes it very difficult for me to rack the slide on any pistol including my Kel-Tec P-32 with a 9# recoil spring. The pistols are not the problem. Old age, arthritis, and congestive heart failure are the problems. The clamp that I found makes it possible for me to be able to rack the slide on any pistol without any problems and with much more safety than a person would have if they were trying to rack a slide with a live cartridge in the pistol and they did not have enough hand grip pressure to do the job safely. I will again suggest to all list members that they go out and buy one of these very cheap clamps and try it. If you think that I have misinformed the list about the uses of this device to help people who have some degree of difficulty with racking the slide on a pistol then we can discuss that after you have tried the device.
Many thanks.
timing of the pistol to change and the slide will start back too soon and your shot pattern will suffer as a result. The pistol that I am working on with the 20# spring is a 1927 model Colt made in Argentina. I only shoot full load factory ammunition. As I stated in my previous post, I do not have a pistol problem. I have a physical problem that makes it very difficult for me to rack the slide on any pistol including my Kel-Tec P-32 with a 9# recoil spring. The pistols are not the problem. Old age, arthritis, and congestive heart failure are the problems. The clamp that I found makes it possible for me to be able to rack the slide on any pistol without any problems and with much more safety than a person would have if they were trying to rack a slide with a live cartridge in the pistol and they did not have enough hand grip pressure to do the job safely. I will again suggest to all list members that they go out and buy one of these very cheap clamps and try it. If you think that I have misinformed the list about the uses of this device to help people who have some degree of difficulty with racking the slide on a pistol then we can discuss that after you have tried the device.
Many thanks.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
SLide Timing
re-Howdy Deles,
A lighter spring won't affect the recoil timing. Ned Christiansen ran
a test by repeatedly firing a 1911 without a spring at all, and there
was no evidence of early linkdown or damage to the impact surfaces.
I have a GI Colt that was manufactured in 1918 that I've rebuilt
twice since I took possession of it in 1975. By best estimate, I've
run close to 100,000 rounds through it, and it's never had a spring
heavier than 14 pounds/32.5 coils since I've had the gun.
What a heavier than standard spring CAN do is cause short-cycle
related malfunctions. Rideover feeds...Live round stovepipes...
extractor breakage and loss of tension due to push-feeding and
forcing the extractor hook to snap over the rim...failure to lock
the slide on empty. These feeding issues generally show up on the
last round, and magazine spring condition can also be a factor.
Cheers!
Tuner
re-Howdy Deles,
A lighter spring won't affect the recoil timing. Ned Christiansen ran
a test by repeatedly firing a 1911 without a spring at all, and there
was no evidence of early linkdown or damage to the impact surfaces.
I have a GI Colt that was manufactured in 1918 that I've rebuilt
twice since I took possession of it in 1975. By best estimate, I've
run close to 100,000 rounds through it, and it's never had a spring
heavier than 14 pounds/32.5 coils since I've had the gun.
What a heavier than standard spring CAN do is cause short-cycle
related malfunctions. Rideover feeds...Live round stovepipes...
extractor breakage and loss of tension due to push-feeding and
forcing the extractor hook to snap over the rim...failure to lock
the slide on empty. These feeding issues generally show up on the
last round, and magazine spring condition can also be a factor.
Cheers!
Tuner
Shaughn Leayme
Member
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2002
- Messages
- 245
1911Tuner,
Pardon the slight hijacking of the topic.
What about the spring weights for those pistols that regularly shoot +P almost exclusively (200 HP/FMJ 1050 - 1100 fps) and those shooting 45 Super or 460 Rowland or 45-08 or contemplating it.
The pistol is more or less stock save for a ramped barrel and fitted bushing and some minor internal changes.
What would your choice be or how would you approach it.
Thanks.
Pardon the slight hijacking of the topic.
What about the spring weights for those pistols that regularly shoot +P almost exclusively (200 HP/FMJ 1050 - 1100 fps) and those shooting 45 Super or 460 Rowland or 45-08 or contemplating it.
The pistol is more or less stock save for a ramped barrel and fitted bushing and some minor internal changes.
What would your choice be or how would you approach it.
Thanks.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Spring Suggestions
Howdy Shauhgn,
I have a formula that I use to calculate a spring rate for a given
loading. This is for .45 ACP/1911 only, as Idon't have experience
with the Super.
Velocity X .2
Add or subtract the bullet weight percentage difference from
230. For velocities above 1,000 fps, add one percent per 100
fps.
Example: GI Hardball...230 (actually 234) 830 fps plus/minus
25 fps. 830 X.2 would figure to be about a 16.5 pound spring...
or exactly what JMB's original design specified.
A 200-grain bullet at 1050 would call for a 21.5 pound spring...
minus the percentage difference between 230 and 200 grains
or roughly 11 percent. 21.5 minus 11 percent would work out to be
about a 19 pound spring, plus or minus a half-pound for the added velocity
above 1000 fps
This won't be exact, due to dimensional tolerances from one pistol to the
next, but it will get you close enough to allow you to fine-tune the
spring by clipping a half-coil or so until the pistol functions.
Be aware than you may need a heavier magazine spring with any
recoil spring rate above 19 pounds in full compression.
Hope this helps,
Tuner
Howdy Shauhgn,
I have a formula that I use to calculate a spring rate for a given
loading. This is for .45 ACP/1911 only, as Idon't have experience
with the Super.
Velocity X .2
Add or subtract the bullet weight percentage difference from
230. For velocities above 1,000 fps, add one percent per 100
fps.
Example: GI Hardball...230 (actually 234) 830 fps plus/minus
25 fps. 830 X.2 would figure to be about a 16.5 pound spring...
or exactly what JMB's original design specified.
A 200-grain bullet at 1050 would call for a 21.5 pound spring...
minus the percentage difference between 230 and 200 grains
or roughly 11 percent. 21.5 minus 11 percent would work out to be
about a 19 pound spring, plus or minus a half-pound for the added velocity
above 1000 fps
This won't be exact, due to dimensional tolerances from one pistol to the
next, but it will get you close enough to allow you to fine-tune the
spring by clipping a half-coil or so until the pistol functions.
Be aware than you may need a heavier magazine spring with any
recoil spring rate above 19 pounds in full compression.
Hope this helps,
Tuner
Tuner - The information that you posted may be correct in every aspect but as I said before I do not have a pistol problem, I have a physical problem.
If and when I have any problems with the pistol that I put the 20# spring in, I will just pick up one of the four other types of 1911 pistols that I own and use it for a while.
Many thanks for the info and I will do some more research to try and decide why I am getting conflicting reports on the use of non-standard springs in 1911 type pistols.
If and when I have any problems with the pistol that I put the 20# spring in, I will just pick up one of the four other types of 1911 pistols that I own and use it for a while.
Many thanks for the info and I will do some more research to try and decide why I am getting conflicting reports on the use of non-standard springs in 1911 type pistols.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Springs
Luck to ya Deles. I understand the problem that you have. My
step-father is 80, and has a tough time with his pistols. A 14-pound
recoil spring made it much easier for him to put it in battery. I wish
I could give a suggestion on the recoil issue...About the only thing I
know is to get a 1911 in 9mm and use it for practice, and hold the
.45 in reserve for the chance that you need a bigger caliber.
The 5-inch 9mm guns use a 13# spring as standard, and you can
go as low as 11 with those.
A final suggestion for range work would be to put an empty magazine
in the gun, rack the slide with the rear sight on the edge of a table.
The slide will lock, and you can put the gun in battery with the
slide release.
Take care, and keep yourpowder dry.
Tuner
Luck to ya Deles. I understand the problem that you have. My
step-father is 80, and has a tough time with his pistols. A 14-pound
recoil spring made it much easier for him to put it in battery. I wish
I could give a suggestion on the recoil issue...About the only thing I
know is to get a 1911 in 9mm and use it for practice, and hold the
.45 in reserve for the chance that you need a bigger caliber.
The 5-inch 9mm guns use a 13# spring as standard, and you can
go as low as 11 with those.
A final suggestion for range work would be to put an empty magazine
in the gun, rack the slide with the rear sight on the edge of a table.
The slide will lock, and you can put the gun in battery with the
slide release.
Take care, and keep yourpowder dry.
Tuner
Nero Steptoe
member
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2002
- Messages
- 461
Tuner and Deles: You both have provided valuable, usable information in this thread; however, I'd like to point out that both of you left out what could possibly be the most important information of all: "What would Teddy and Dave do?"
Tuner - Since I found, and am using, the Quick-Grip clamp all of my difficulties with racking the slides of any of the pistols that I own has completely dissappeared and I no longer have any problem or pain while performing this procedure. If this is difficult for you to comprehend then maybe I am not making myself clear. I no longer have the problem because I use the clamp and it works great for me. I do not know how to say this any better so I will stop trying.
Many thanks,
Many thanks,
MoNsTeR
Member
Slick solution, but the heavy spring is the problem.
No reason to use more than 16# for standard loads, and a strong argument for using a lighter spring. We've had a couple of discussions about this recently, but I feel it bears repeating. Take your gun to the range with your stock spring and the 20# spring, shoot, then swap and shoot some more. If you're shooting with a proper stance and grip, the stock 16# spring WILL appear to recoil less and yield less muzzle flip.
Just last week I took my Hi-Power to the range with the stock spring (17# according to Wolff) and a Wolff 18.5# spring. I shot some with the heavy spring, then swapped in the light spring. Just that slight decrease in spring weight resulted in a readily perceptible decrease in recoil and muzzle flip, allowing me to shoot much faster and more comfortably.
No reason to use more than 16# for standard loads, and a strong argument for using a lighter spring. We've had a couple of discussions about this recently, but I feel it bears repeating. Take your gun to the range with your stock spring and the 20# spring, shoot, then swap and shoot some more. If you're shooting with a proper stance and grip, the stock 16# spring WILL appear to recoil less and yield less muzzle flip.
Just last week I took my Hi-Power to the range with the stock spring (17# according to Wolff) and a Wolff 18.5# spring. I shot some with the heavy spring, then swapped in the light spring. Just that slight decrease in spring weight resulted in a readily perceptible decrease in recoil and muzzle flip, allowing me to shoot much faster and more comfortably.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Nero Wrote:
Tuner and Deles: You both have provided valuable, usable information in this thread; however, I'd like to point out that both of you left out what could possibly be the most important information of all: "What would Teddy and Dave do?"
ARRRRRRRRGHHHHHH!!!!:banghead:
Cheers!
Tuner
Tuner and Deles: You both have provided valuable, usable information in this thread; however, I'd like to point out that both of you left out what could possibly be the most important information of all: "What would Teddy and Dave do?"
ARRRRRRRRGHHHHHH!!!!:banghead:
Cheers!
Tuner
- Status
