Slide Racking

[1911Tuner]

Slide rackin'

Sorry deles...I understood what you were tryin' to say, and I was offering a
possible way to lose the gadget if you wanted to. If you're okay with it,
nada problemo.

Take care, and keep your powder dry!

Tuner

 

[Deles136]

Tuner - The slide "gadget" will now stay with me for the rest of the trip.

After reading your formula I decided to go to my spring box and check my log on the inside of the cover to make sure what springs I had put in this pistol. I found that I had installed a 20# spring the first time I tried the pistol. I found that the trigger pull was well beyond what it should be. I found the problem as someone had bent the sear spring arms way past normal because the sear would drop out when the slide was racked without the extra pressure from the sear spring. After I corrected that problem I installed a 17.5# Wolff extra power variable recoil spring and I installed an 18# Wolff reduced power hammer spring. I shoot 220 grain PMP South African made ammo because I bought some for 10 cents a round from Century. The ammo seems to be stronger than many other brands I have tried but I do not how many fps the 220 grain bullets travel. The ammo is dirtier than some but I can live with that. I was wondering what effect the reduced power hammer spring had on the slide recoil because I know that if I cock the hammer before I rack the slide it is much easier.

I would appreciate it if you would use your formula and try to calculate what changes I might need to make to have my pistol set up right. I have now solved the racking problem so that is not a factor anymore.

Many thanks for your help,

 

[Navy joe]

Deles, Someone passingly mentioned a "slide racker". Beyond putting a light spring back in you need a racker put on your gun. It is just a short rod or handle threaded or dovetailed into your slide that sticks out from the side. Easy to grip, get one made that suits you. I'm sure the clamp works great for range fun, but if you ever need to use your gun for real you won't have time to find a clamp if your gun malfunctions. You need to clear the gun with what you already have in your hands. Fast. The option is don't get your gun working and die.
Rackers are mostly used by competitors to clear optics mounted on the pistol, but you can have one too. Not too svelte for CCW, so maybe a revolver would be a better carry choice for you.

Option #2. If you have a real 1911, as in no full length guide rod, you can rack the slide by pushing the front of the slide below the barrel into the nearest hard edge like a table edge, wall corner, or bookshelf. I have only needed this once to clear a ridiculous malfunction caused by someone else's foul reloads. You can easily exert much more force than you can by pulling on the slide. Don't be shy, I fed mine to the nearest hard object at full force with no ill effect to the gun.

 

[HBK]

I was gonna give my Dad a Beretta 92 for Father's Day and his birthday, but he is not a fan of semi-autos, mainly because he's older and has difficulty racking the slide. We traded it for a Smith and Wesson M-60 and he is one happy camper.

 

[1911Tuner]

Springs, Sears and Rackers

Hi Deles,

I thought that you were still using the 20# spring. The variable 17.5
number sounds much more reasonable. Though I have never used
them, They get the thumbs up from such notable smiths as Dane Burns.
He feels that they do well over a wider range of ammunition specs than a
straight spring. Since I don't know the PMP ammo's velocity, I can only take a shot in the dark, and say that the variable that you're using is okay.

Navy Joe may have just opened a door with his suggestion. I had
forgotten about the neat little add-on racker that the racegunners
use, and they seem to work very well. Thanks Joe!

My concern now lies with your problem with the sear "falling out".

If you mean it breaks contact with the hammer hooks, and follows the slide,
that could be a problem with a big red DANGER sign attached, unless
you had a pistolsmith correct it by re-cutting the hooks and sear angle.

It's my guess that the hooks have worn to a point of negative engagement
instead of neutral... or captive (positive engagement.) If you haven't had
a smith check the hooks and sear, PLEASE do so. An unexpected
full-auto event can be disastrous. He may advise you to replace
the hammer and sear.

A lighter mainspring (hammer spring) will make it more likely to bounce
out of engagement with the hooks, and the difference that it makes in
your trigger pull will be small compared to a standard 23# spring.

If you would like to drop your recoil spring rate a little lower, the heavier
mainspring will help in slowing the slide in recoil to reduce frame to
slide impact, since that's a concern.

Take care, and keep us posted on this.

Tuner

 

[1911Tuner]

More Spring Stuff

As an aside, to explain why I am an advocate of lighter recoil springs
rather than heavy ones is for reasons of reliability in a carry gun.

While I use the heaviest spring that will give good function in a
hard-use range pistol, I go in the opposite direction for a carry
gun. The reason is simple.

The 1911 design relies heavily on a good, strong grip to avoid
cycling malfunctions, and a weak grip has long been associated with these. Often referred to as "Limp Wristing", it can also be
due to having your grip broken due to arthritic pain, fatigue, or
not being able to obtain a good grip when in a hurry. The stronger
the recoil spring, the more sensitive the pistol is to proper grip,
or lack thereof.

I have often noticed that my hand will tire during a long range
session, and malfunctions sometimes show up. When I take a
break to rest my hand, the malfunctions disappear. This is
noticed more often when there is a heavier than standard spring in the gun.

For carry pistols, my practice has long been to tweak the pistol to
feed in semi-slow motion without a recoil spring in the gun. When
it will do that, it will feed reliably during live fire with a lighter than
standard spring, and will be much less likely to have a stoppage
in the event that the perfect grip or firing stance can't be obtained.
A defensive pistol will have to be deployed quickly, and there is at
least an even chance that it will be necessary to fire one-handed
while the weak hand fends off a close-quarters attack. The pistol
may have to be fired from hip level, with the wrist angled slightly
upward...or even held sideways, as with the "Gansta" technique.

Several things may work against the classic, two-hand Weaver stance.
Time and proximity of the attack are just two, and I have long been a
proponent of making the pistol functional under the absolute worst
of circumstances rather than worry about slide to frame impact
damaging the gun. If I am fighting for my life, that is the least of my
worries. That area of the gun is engineered to take the pounding,
and even so, the three or four rounds that I would need to fire in
a life and death struggle wouldn't make a measureable dent.

With a range pistol, reliable function isn't as critical, and a stovepipe
or failure to go to battery can work for us as practice in malfunction
clearance drills.

Just my nickel's worth...Your mileage may vary.
Tuner

 

[Deles136]

Tuner - My 1911 is a range pistol with a scope mount that replaces the right grip panel. The scope mount makes it difficult to get a good grip on the slide so I use the clamp.

I looked at all or the parts to try and determine what the sear problem was and they all looked to be in good condition but when I was inspecting the frame I found that over the years that worn magazines had probably been used in this pistol and because of that the magazines would allow the base of the first round to lean back enough, when the magazine was being inserted, and the base of the top round would catch on the thin piece of metal just forward of the center of the disconnector.This is the piece of the frame that separates the mag well from the area where the disconnector operates at the top of the mag well. When I looked in the mag well, I could see this piece of metal had a dip in it that was pushed to the rear of the pistol and was pressing on the back of the disconnector. I took my Dremel tool and a small tapered grinding wheel and remover about .150" of the lower edge of this thin metal piece, just in the center,and that removed the problem.
Now when I cycle the action the disconnector can seat properly as it no longer hits this bent in piece of metal. When I insert the magazine there is clearance between the magazine and the disconnector with no problem and I have not removed enough metal to cause any other problems.

 

[BigG]

Here's an idea I got from Rex Applegate: Hold gun in strong hand, grab slide with weak hand and hold it in place while you PUSH forward with your strong hand. Slide is racked quite a bit easier this way in my experience.

 

[1911Tuner]

Ahhhh...

I didn't know it was a range gun with an optical sight mount. Now we're
on the same page.

Since you've figured out what was lifting the disconnect and fixed it,
it's possible that the bottom corner of the disconnector wasn't prepped
during assembly, and that will allow the magazine to lift it too...and
result in the sear losing engagement with the hammer hooks.

The first symptom will be a hair trigger after a mag change, especially
it the magazine is slammed in with force. Next time you detail strip
the frame, look at the bottom corner on the disconnector...the corner
that you can see through the magwell. If it's sharp, it can be beveled
or radiused a little to let it clear the magazine.

Since it's primarily a range gun, and the fixture that you rigged to give you
a grip on the slide works well...Carry on! The 17.5 variable spring should do fine as long as you shoot hardball ammo, or a close equivalent..
which PMP likely is. If you decide to use a reduced power target type
round, you may need a lighter spring.

Happy shootin!

Tuner

 

[Deles136]

Tuner - Thanks for the tip about the bottom corner of the disconnector, I will check it.

When I was on the range in Boot Camp in 1953 learning how to shoot the 1911 pistol, the range instructor was a WW 2 vet. He said NOT to slam the magazines in hard on these old pistols because the lips at the top could get bent in and cause feeding problems. He also told us that if we had a jam or other problem to hold the pistol downrange and up at a 45 degree angle and to raise the other hand and wait for him. The young man standing on my left had a jam and turned around towards me with the pistol pointed at my stomach when the instructor grabbed the pistol with one hand and punched the young man in the jaw with the other hand and knocked him to the ground. The instructor had been standing right behind us and that is why he could react so fast. I listened very carefully to every word that instructor had to say from then on.

Thanks for all of your help.