Small Or Large Rifle Primers In .308?

[BushMaster-15]

I believe what OfffHand has stated may prove the reason the Military NEVER used SRP in anything larger than 5.56X45mm .
POWDER volume excessive in 7.62X51 and 63mm requires larger volcanic eruption or slag flow .
Simply put primer's intended purpose is to " Reliably ignite all the cases powder " . Insufficient volcanic fire fails to do so in larger cases .
Hence WHY Magnums use a Hotter mixture , as there's that much more powder column and especially in cold weather could be detrimental not achieving full burn potential . And we all know primers have different burn intensities .

The sensitivity of priming compositions varies, but that of an individual composition can also be varied to some extent by careful control of the granulation of each of the ingredients. Sometimes this is more important than the proportions of the ingredients. Non-uniformity of composition due to physical separation caused by shaking can lead to great variations in sensitivity and even failure to function. The presence of a binding agent prevents such separation as well as fixing the composition in the desired position in the assembly.

The rate of burning, volume of gases, weight of solid particles produced, and the duration of the flame are the major influences on the efficient functioning of a priming composition. For a typical priming composition of 0.15 g, the volume of gases at room temperature and pressure is in the order of 1.5 cm. The percentage of the weight carried as incandescent particles by the hot gases will vary with the composition, but can be in the region of 70%. The incandescent particles are thought to promote ignition by thermal radiation. Flame bursts from various primers were found to have effective durations varying from 400 to 750 microseconds and total durations varying from 650 to 1,500 microseconds.45



Just MY opinion .

 

[BushMaster-15]

Around here all primers but shotgun primers are running between .08 and .13 depending on where you look. My last shotgun primers cost .07.

IMHO reloading hand gun calibers never really did "save much money" even 10 years ago. Now if you wanted something off the wall goofy that you just could not buy, then yea. I liked 9mm with the fattest bullet I could find moving as slow as I could to make the gun run for bowling pin matches.

Move to rifle cartridges and today you are getting a deal at $1 per bang.

Over on the surplus site this topic just came up, prices on 54R range from around .70 to over 1.10 per trigger pull. I can make it for roughly .75 amortizing the brass out for 5 reloadings. I generally get more as I don't load them hot and work the brass as little as possible.

Same goes for shotgun shells, the cheap stuff you can buy a couple pennies less per shell then I can reload them for....and they still bust clays just fine.

I can reload .380 , .38's , .44 and mags .45's and even 9mm for a whole lot less $$$'s than I can buy them for especially NOW and MY loads are far more accurate . I can load shotshells 28 20 12 gauge for less than a 1/4 of discount store bought shells ( NOT waterfowl though ) .

See I have a major advantage over almost all shooters ; I've been purchasing components on sale for over 45 years ,boxes of bullets like cases , DON'T go bad and in some rare cases still using limited quantities of 60 year old powder . Stored properly powder DOESN'T go bad either .
Although many modern powders WILL deteriorate faster by design . Anyway as for shotshells I figure MY Wife will be selling cases not bricks of 209's , along with wads hulls long after I've expired ; IF I can shoot 5K a year for the next #20 .

I'm currently in the process of selling a 1/2 ton of lead shot in 9's 8's 7.5's 6's and 5's all New in their original bags ,speaking of bags .
I have a sizable box with perhaps #500-600 empty shot bags ? ,that I saved over the decades from when I shot Trap & Sporting Clays regularly and loaded practice shells , maybe 250-275K shells . Here's a small wide variety sample of bullets ,that I chose from when reloading ,MY walk in closet is SCARY to see and Don't photo it . There's perhaps 25K bullets in the one box in front of MY foot alone. The Yellow and black tote of which I have #3 are overflowing with reloads in Rifle and Pistol . When We moved ,I loaded into MY container a little over 1.5 tons of New shot in their original bags on a pallet and Two pallets of bullets because of the weight , one wasn't enough !!. FYI ; I loaded 600 lb. short of 34 Tons into that container ,so as to make the scales . You DON'T want to know about the rest

 

[Remington1911]

I can reload .380 , .38's , .44 and mags .45's and even 9mm for a whole lot less $$$'s than I can buy them for especially NOW and MY loads are far more accurate . I can load shotshells 28 20 12 gauge for less than a 1/4 of discount store bought shells ( NOT waterfowl though ) .

See I have a major advantage over almost all shooters ; I've been purchasing components on sale for over 45 years ,boxes of bullets like cases , DON'T go bad and in some rare cases still using limited quantities of 60 year old powder . Stored properly powder DOESN'T go bad either .
Although many modern powders WILL deteriorate faster by design . Anyway as for shotshells I figure MY Wife will be selling cases not bricks of 209's , along with wads hulls long after I've expired ; IF I can shoot 5K a year for the next #20 .

I'm currently in the process of selling a 1/2 ton of lead shot in 9's 8's 7.5's 6's and 5's all New in their original bags ,speaking of bags .
I have a sizable box with perhaps #500-600 empty shot bags ? ,that I saved over the decades from when I shot Trap & Sporting Clays regularly and loaded practice shells , maybe 250-275K shells . Here's a small wide variety sample of bullets ,that I chose from when reloading ,MY walk in closet is SCARY to see and Don't photo it . There's perhaps 25K bullets in the one box in front of MY foot alone. The Yellow and black tote of which I have #3 are overflowing with reloads in Rifle and Pistol . When We moved ,I loaded into MY container a little over 1.5 tons of New shot in their original bags on a pallet and Two pallets of bullets because of the weight , one wasn't enough !!. FYI ; I loaded 600 lb. short of 34 Tons into that container ,so as to make the scales . You DON'T want to know about the rest

I don't shoot hand guns well enough to see a difference in my reloads vs. factory....however I see no reason why that would be different over a rifle cartridge, and there I have seen HUGE differences between factory and my loads.....in some cases IF you can find factory.

Here at the local wally world the cheap winchester white, or federal red 100 round boxes are running at roughly $35-$40 per box, or roughly .40 per shell. Going with the assumption that you need all components, hull, primer, wad, powder, shot, my last run through was roughly .70 per shell. So the CHEAP 100 round boxes found at wally world came in a tick cheaper then I could load myself. And like with a hand gun I don't think I can shoot the shotgun well enough to see the difference between "good" shells and "cheap" shells.

All, as in ALL the rifle I shoot save one is both flat cheaper and "better" over factory. But then again that is all old surplus stuff. Only one I don't know the costs on is 223. I have reloaded for 223 for some specific things, but in general I don't load for it. Sitting on a pile of steel case and just not the need to reload for plinking ammo, where as some of the things I shoot the only way you are going to shoot it is if you load it yourself.

 

[BushMaster-15]

I don't shoot hand guns well enough to see a difference in my reloads vs. factory....however I see no reason why that would be different over a rifle cartridge, and there I have seen HUGE differences between factory and my loads.....in some cases IF you can find factory.

Here at the local wally world the cheap winchester white, or federal red 100 round boxes are running at roughly $35-$40 per box, or roughly .40 per shell. Going with the assumption that you need all components, hull, primer, wad, powder, shot, my last run through was roughly .70 per shell. So the CHEAP 100 round boxes found at wally world came in a tick cheaper then I could load myself. And like with a hand gun I don't think I can shoot the shotgun well enough to see the difference between "good" shells and "cheap" shells.

All, as in ALL the rifle I shoot save one is both flat cheaper and "better" over factory. But then again that is all old surplus stuff. Only one I don't know the costs on is 223. I have reloaded for 223 for some specific things, but in general I don't load for it. Sitting on a pile of steel case and just not the need to reload for plinking ammo, where as some of the things I shoot the only way you are going to shoot it is if you load it yourself.

I'll let YOU do the Math :

MY powder 8 lb. $85.00 , MY Shot 25 lb. bags $ 8.75-11.50 , AA Wads or WAA12SL or any # of others ,so inexpensive you couldn't fathom . I purchased Bulk pallet ,I have Cases of Cartons Not bags of wads . MY Primers Win 209 $14.50- 16.00 per K .

Even Nickle plated 00 , what I don't have is Tungsten , Bismuth or steel for waterfowl . The ONLY component I'M short on is SPP , I haven't purchased them in nearly #20 years now . I used to purchase Two brands in Mixed pallet orders and over the years I've shot them or sold off some to friends . As far as anything else including cases hulls bullets powders primers ,I'm GOOD for the duration of MY existence IF I shoot 5K rounds a year in just rifle or shotshells .

Winchester AA Target Loads Shotshells current cost + tax

$12.99 - $179.99

 

[Remington1911]

I'll let YOU do the Math :

MY powder 8 lb. $85.00 , MY Shot 25 lb. bags $ 8.75-11.50 , AA Wads or WAA12SL or any # of others ,so inexpensive you couldn't fathom . I purchased Bulk pallet ,I have Cases of Cartons Not bags of wads . MY Primers Win 209 $14.50- 16.00 per K .

Even Nickle plated 00 , what I don't have is Tungsten , Bismuth or steel for waterfowl . The ONLY component I'M short on is SPP , I haven't purchased them in nearly #20 years now . I used to purchase Two brands in Mixed pallet orders and over the years I've shot them or sold off some to friends . As far as anything else including cases hulls bullets powders primers ,I'm GOOD for the duration of MY existence IF I shoot 5K rounds a year in just rifle or shotshells .

Winchester AA Target Loads Shotshells current cost + tax

$12.99 - $179.99

Where the hell are you getting 8 pounds of powder for $85? Where are you getting primers for $16 per thousand?

This is not what 99% of the world pays for these components. 8lb of powder is going to run you close to $400 today, Shot gun primers ~$80, and that is cheap if you look at other primers ranging from the last LRP I bought for $125 and I got a deal...seen them as high as $180.

Your prices are not current......not in the least.

Sorry I seem to have made you angry. But your prices are just insane......$85 for 8lbs of powder, that is so funny.

So you give a powder price when for 8lbs you could buy for 80 bucks, and give a current cost of shells......tell you what why not make it standard and give prices of shells when that powder was bought (interested in when that was) or figure it up using current prices of components when not buying a pallet of them, not many of us have room for 20 years of components.

Pick one you can't have both.....does the term cherry picking mean anything to you?

 

[BushMaster-15]

Where the hell are you getting 8 pounds of powder for $85? Where are you getting primers for $16 per thousand?

This is not what 99% of the world pays for these components. 8lb of powder is going to run you close to $400 today, Shot gun primers ~$80, and that is cheap if you look at other primers ranging from the last LRP I bought for $125 and I got a deal...seen them as high as $180.

Your prices are not current......not in the least.

Sorry I seem to have made you angry. But your prices are just insane......$85 for 8lbs of powder, that is so funny.

So you give a powder price when for 8lbs you could buy for 80 bucks, and give a current cost of shells......tell you what why not make it standard and give prices of shells when that powder was bought (interested in when that was) or figure it up using current prices of components when not buying a pallet of them, not many of us have room for 20 years of components.

Pick one you can't have both.....does the term cherry picking mean anything to you?

YOU obliviously DIDN'T read MY original post , I don't get angry and over what ? :

See I have a major advantage over almost all shooters ; I've been purchasing components on sale for over 45 years ,boxes of bullets like cases , DON'T go bad and in some rare cases still using limited quantities of 60 year old powder . Stored properly powder DOESN'T go bad either .
Although many modern powders WILL deteriorate faster by design . Anyway as for shotshells I figure MY Wife will be selling cases not bricks of 209's , along with wads hulls long after I've expired ; IF I can shoot 5K a year for the next #20 .

I also have Cases NOT 1/2 cases but Full #500 round cases of AA Win ,Remington STS ,Nitro 27's and paid right around $90.00 per case or $48.50 per half case .

Never said anything about replacing components for those prices . When Winchester announced it was discontinuing WSL ,I purchased a few kegs and already had more than a couple on hand ,in addition to the other powders .

When a local Gun show was coming into town ,I'd purchase from a distributor and the sales vendor would deliver ,saving ME HazMat fees .

I realized early on retail is just that but Wholesale is totally a different animal ,as there's manufacturers ,brokerage along with regional area distributors and retailers . So if one takes advantage of knowing persons within the industry and doesn't backstab your supplier ,they're all to willing to accept your money

Remember Retailers have LIMITS on storage , individuals DON'T !. Before someone starts lecturing ME on local or County ordinates limits and such , Don't bother . I had charge of stocking & maintaining a # of Class A & B #40 ton magazines decades back . So I KNOW the laws and it's loops requirements . I also was Never in the pyrotechnic industry .

1910.109(a)(3)(i)
Class A explosives. Possessing, detonating, or otherwise maximum hazard; such as dynamite, nitroglycerin, picric acid, lead azide, fulminate of mercury, black powder, blasting caps, and detonating primers.

1910.109(a)(3)(ii)
Class B explosives. Possessing flammable hazard, such as propellant explosives (including some smokeless propellants), photographic flash powders, and some special fireworks.

1910.109(a)(3)(iii)
Class C explosives. Includes certain types of manufactured articles which contain Class A or Class B explosives, or both, as components but in restricted quantities.

 

[BushMaster-15]

Anyone venture a guess as to WHEN this Powder was discontinued from sale or better put the last time YOU saw any Retailer or wholesaler offer it for sale ?. Not only Do I have it , I have a small quantity left of MY original purchase which came by UPSP in a Cardboard tube from Hodgdons . FYI : That was in the Mid 60's .

Large cases preferably Magnums and heavy bullets ,it's real hard to beat for accuracy with velocity . It is was old WC870 surplus military 20 mm powder ,since replaced by :

Compatible with the NAVY’s PHALANX Anti-Ship Missile Defense System and the M61 and M197 gun systems.

 

[Varminterror]

Remember Retailers have LIMITS on storage , individuals DON'T !. Before someone starts lecturing ME on local or County ordinates limits and such , Don't bother . I had charge of stocking & maintaining a # of Class A & B #40 ton magazines decades back . So I KNOW the laws and it's loops requirements . I also was Never in the pyrotechnic industry .

I typically ignore your posts because they’re typically quite charged and equally erroneous, but for others:

NFPA452 Article 14.3.7.2 Limits US Residences to 50lbs of smokeless powder if stored in a specified fireproof container, 14.3.7.1 limits to only 20lbs if stored in original containers.

NFPA 452, Article 14.5.5 Limits US Residences to 10,000 primers.

An individual’s choice to speed on the highway assuming the risk of being caught doing so is up to their own tolerance.

 

[AJC1]

I typically ignore your posts because they’re typically quite charged and equally erroneous, but for others:

NFPA452 Article 14.3.7.2 Limits US Residences to 50lbs of smokeless powder if stored in a specified fireproof container, 14.3.7.1 limits to only 20lbs if stored in original containers.

NFPA 452, Article 14.5.5 Limits US Residences to 10,000 primers.

An individual’s choice to speed on the highway assuming the risk of being caught doing so is up to their own tolerance.

The 50 pound limit is what I had read and teeter on the edge of. There may be need and reason for more but I'm not trying to draw attention as a renter.

 

[Varminterror]

The 50 pound limit is what I had read and teeter on the edge of. There may be need and reason for more but I'm not trying to draw attention as a renter.

Allegedly, there may or may not have typically been more than 50lbs each (and never less than 30lbs, allegedly) of Varget, H4350, Retumbo, and H110 at a home in which I may or may not reside for the last 15yrs… and certainly more than 10k primers… allegedly…

But folks have to recognize and accept the risk that insurance payments aren’t a thing in the event of a total loss fire, exacerbated by an over-code volume in powder magazine, and some additional liabilities for extraneous damages or personal injuries may be assumed by choosing to store over-code volumes.

 

[AJC1]

Allegedly, there may or may not have typically been more than 50lbs each (and never less than 30lbs, allegedly) of Varget, H4350, Retumbo, and H110 at a home in which I may or may not reside for the last 15yrs… and certainly more than 10k primers… allegedly…

But folks have to recognize and accept the risk that insurance payments aren’t a thing in the event of a total loss fire, exacerbated by an over-code volume in powder magazine, and some additional liabilities for extraneous damages or personal injuries may be assumed by choosing to store over-code volumes.

Barring Abby shuto (NCIS forensics) if you know the code and state your at code limit, their going to have a hell of a time proving it unless one is just careless. 55 vs 50 pounds good luck. 100 vs 50 lbs is going to be a lot easier to prove. I'm not a stickler but I'm not intentionally doubling the max. That's just my line.

 

[Varminterror]

55 vs 50, stored within a 1hr fire resistant container, is very, very different than 250-300lbs of powder which is only stored in manufacturer packaging…

I have flammable placards on my fuel & solvent cabinet in the garage and my basement egress door. My local FD has been to the house, and we have notes to not enter a garage structure fire or north end engulfment. Insurance is less aware.

Allegedly…

 

[BushMaster-15]

I typically ignore your posts because they’re typically quite charged and equally erroneous, but for others:

NFPA452 Article 14.3.7.2 Limits US Residences to 50lbs of smokeless powder if stored in a specified fireproof container, 14.3.7.1 limits to only 20lbs if stored in original containers.

NFPA 452, Article 14.5.5 Limits US Residences to 10,000 primers.

An individual’s choice to speed on the highway assuming the risk of being caught doing so is up to their own tolerance.

I typically ignore your posts because they’re typically quite charged and equally erroneous, but for others: ??

May I inquire as to WHOM and HOW MY posts are " Charged " as well as incorrect ?.

FYI : I DON'T store any powder inside our home ,other than say a few lb. of what I'm typically using at the time ,so hence NO violation of ANY ordinances . We also have an extremely limited neighbor ,as in one which is far enough away should a MK82 be dropped directly upon our home ,doubtful they would lose windows let alone anything else .