Small pieces of meat found; no blood, no hair.

[chazzbo77]

Hello everyone. I'm new here.

I'm a 16 year old hunter, soon to be 17, and I took a shot at a monster buck yesterday afternoon.

I had a .20 gauge slug gun and he was about 100 yards away, so it was a pretty difficult shot. Needless to say, I was nervous as this buck was a 140 class brute.

I took the shot and he jumped up pretty high and gave a hard kick and ran off. Both my dad and I thought I hit him pretty well just because he reacted to violently to the shot. However, after waiting about a half hour, we got out and checked where I'd hit him.

What we found was really odd. We found three small pieces of meat, I guess you'd call it. Almost like ground beef. But nothing else. Just meat. No hair, no blood. I spotted where he's run and followed his tracks for about 100 yards but he just kept going. There was absolutely no blood and no hair but there were three chunks of meat.

This is the second year in a row this has happened to me. Last year I took a shot at a big buck and didn't hit him right. He was killed a week later by another hunter. I'm feeling pretty bummed out. But my question is where could I have hit him at that this happened? I'm really confused.


Thanks for any help,
Chalie

 

[janobles14]

a hind quarter or single shoulder shot can do this. the muscle shots will usually clot almost instantly and wont bleed too much.

 

[CSA 357]

that is a sick fealing, i cant say where your shot hit, but i would guess a leg, i too have shot deer and never found them , and its a nightmare! see it when you lay down to sleep, i can only tell you at some time you will need to improve your shooting skills, maybe you need a better gun? but hunting is hard work, and its a shame your not posting pictures of that big ole buck! but as i did you will learn from your mistakes, i have made some i will never foget, but theres good news, it gets better! so will you! good luck, csa

 

[Sinixstar]

I might suggest next time you pass on the shot if this is the second time this has happened to you?

Really, you could have hit anywhere. At 100yds I can only assume you're using slugs. Slugs flatten out pretty good in a deer. On the way out - they tend to tear a hole (since they're now almost twice the size as when they went in, and are pretty ragged) and they can leave some tissue on the ground. Hard to say where exactly the hit was. Could have been a non-fatal shot in the leg - or could have been a high-lung shot. Lung tissue can look much like you described, but if it's a high lung shot there may not be a whole lot of blood. The animal WILL die, but you won't get much of a blood trail to follow until the lungs fill up. A shot like this - an animal can go on for a rather long time (until the lungs start to fill up enough to slow it down, at which time it will cough up some blood, and start going again). That being said, tracking only 100yds may have only just been the beginning. Another 100 yards and your deer may have been laying dead.

Are you seeing where i'm going with this?

 

[Sinixstar]

Also, I don't mean to totally criticize or anything, but this is a rather common thing that happens, and it doesn't have to.

Some things to do in the future to avoid having this happen.

First and foremost - practice, practice practice. Spend as much time at the range as you can. If you want to take those 100 yd shots, practice those 100 yd shots. Practice sitting, kneeling, offhand (standing) and then do it some more. Don't just practice in nice warm sunny conditions - practice in breezy, raining, snowing, cold conditions too. Make sure that if you're going to take that shot in the field, that you're confident you can make it at the range first. Not just some of the time, not just most of the time - but every time. Now if you find yourself in that situation, 100 yards isn't a "difficult" shot - it's standard fare, and you know where the bullet is going.
You have to know what you're capable of in different situations from different positions in different conditions. 100yd shot on a clear day with no wind might not be bad, but a 75yard shot in freezing conditions with a stiff breeze might be all but impossible.

Do some research on different techniques and tricks for tracking. Blood trails aren't always immediately apparent - and sometimes you have to rely on other methods for the first bit of tracking to get the job done. I don't think i have to tell you how frustrating it is to know you hit something, and it just ran off somewhere. The more you learn about tracking, and the better you get at it - the more likely you are to find your animal in a situation like this.

 

[Liberty1776]

Well, welcome to hunting, but...
"I spotted where he's run and followed his tracks for about 100 yards but he just kept going. There was absolutely no blood and no hair but there were three chunks of meat."

You hit him. No doubt about it. Fat can plug a hole pretty quickly too. Just read a story last night about three guys tracking a small elk one had hit, for over 6 hours, through the mountains... and got it finally. You owe the game animal more of an effort than 100 yards. Practice more for next year. Good luck.

 

[Cypress]

I'll say it!! I hope you feel as bad as you should. Looks to me that very little effort went into your attempt at hunting.

 

[koja48]

It happens, but it shouldn't happen when a hunter is ill prepared to make a shot at a given range. Practice at a range at which your gun (and you) shoots consistent, acceptable groups. "Big Buck" doesn't justify a shot at a range beyond either your or the rounds effectiveness . . . get within your comfort/efficiency zone, or don't take the shot. It's a hard lesson, but one well worth learning when the unfortunate opportunity presents itself. You may want to consider moving up to a 12-gauge, not to say that a 20 won't dispatch a deer, but a 12 performs with greater authority at the range you described, assuming acceptable accuracy, of course. If you can't hit 'em square, ain't no gun gonna kill 'em clean.

 

[kingpin008]

First of all, I'll readily admit that I've never hunted in my life, and as such I very well may be talking out of where the sun doesn't shine - but I'll definitely agree with the others - tracking for only 100 yards doesn't seem sufficient at all in this case. If the animal wasn't obviously dropped, but you know you scored a hit (as evidenced by the tissue left behind) you owe it to the animal to track it down and finish it off. As other have said, that might take you a bit, if the wound wasn't in a vital area. 100 yards is nothing to a deer, especially if that deer is wounded and scared. He could have been three times as far as that in minutes, and you never would have known.

And once again, as others have said - if you experienced a similar situation last year, you might want to take some time off and evaluate where your skill level is at. Spend some time practicing, to make sure you know what you're doing. It's not fair to the animals to keep doing this to them - especially if you're not going to track them properly afterwards.

 

[Sinixstar]

Kingpin - exactly.

I mean, here's a perfect example of that:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=406608

Solid shot from a 300mag @75 yards, and the thing keeps comin. It takes 2 more to drop it, and it's runnin dead flat at him the whole time. Deer don't always just flop over dead right there...

 

[Albatross]

Contrarian opinions here:

There is nothing wrong with taking 100+ yard shots (although you should try to get closer as you're more likely to be successful). While I think an effort should be made for a clean kill, if you see a deer you want to kill there is nothing wrong with taking a long shot.

People forget deer are just animals, you do not owe them anything. They are not children/people. That said, you should chase a deer which has likely been shot more than a 100 yards.

Its pretty easy for a fatally wounded deer to travel that far and farther. There has been a few times I've shot deer that have gone 300-400+ yards before they lied down for the last time.

/meat hunter

 

[Sinixstar]

There is nothing wrong with taking 100+ yard shots (although you should try to get closer as you're more likely to be successful). While I think an effort should be made for a clean kill, if you see a deer you want to kill there is nothing wrong with taking a long shot.

Not saying there's anything wrong with taking a 100 yard shot with a shotgun. But if on more then one occasion you take a shot like that (which is a healthy distance with a shotgun) the animal is hit and gets away - you might want to put a little more thought into the practice...

People forget deer are just animals, you do not owe them anything.

I would say you owe them at least the common decency of being a moral and ethical person, and to that end should try for a clean "humane" kill. Yes, they are "just animals" - but that's no reason to let another living creature suffer needlessly.

 

[kingpin008]

People forget deer are just animals, you do not owe them anything. They are not children/people.

Once again, not a hunter - but I've got to disagree with you on this one, and quite strongly at that. Any living creature deserves to be treated with respect, especially if you aim to take it's life. A deer may be an animal, but it feels, thinks, and breathes just like you and I do. The fact that it isn't human doesn't change that.

Do you have pets? If so, do you take them to the vet when they're sick, feed them when they're hungry? Pet them and love on 'em when they're good? If they're just animals and you don't owe them anything, why do you do all those things?

 

[koja48]

There is nothing wrong with taking 100+ yard shots

. . . when one is consistent & proficient at such range.

People forget deer are just animals, you do not owe them anything.

Sorry, but people being the intelligent & ethical creatures we are, as hunters we owe "just animals" everything in our power to ensure them a quick, clean demise. To do otherwise is wrong, period. There is a HUGE difference between "wanting to kill a deer" and being "able to hit a deer." Hunting isn't a "maybe I can hit that" game.

 

[Art Eatman]

Let's don't go wandering off from the subject, which is guesstimating what the OP oughta do to avoid lost deer in his future hunts.

Tracking is as much a necessary skill as shooting, from what I've seen...

 

[bang_bang]

I've done the same on two different occasions. Both shots were made with a .270 Winchester offhand at around the same distance. The first I found a little piece of meat, and that's it. No blood, and I searched for several hours.

The second was on a buck, I found two drops of blood and a patch of hair. While trying to pick up on the blood trail in the area I assumed he ran to, a nice heavy snow turned everything white. Again, a good two hour search turned out to be nothing, and anything that was their before was erased by the two inches of snow that fell really quick.

 

[testar77]

WOW

People forget deer are just animals, you do not owe them anything. They are not children/people. That said, you should chase a deer which has likely been shot more than a 100 yards.

Wow, I am not even sure how to reply to that! I am a hunter and have been for a while, and even though the end result is a freezer full o meat...... there is still alot more to it than that. They are living creatures, and no (innocent) living creature deserves to suffer. Do you ever think that comments like that is why the "other side" thinks that we are a bunch of gun weilding wackos out killing stuff for the heck of it!!???? I truly hope that you don't bump into anyone that "doesn't owe you anything"!! I am no luvy duvy tree hugger by any means, but that comment ticked me off! Especially in a thread that has a young inexperienced hunter asking for help and advice! I truly hope that there are no offspring in your gene pool looking for quality, and ethical hunting upbringing!


Sorry Art for going off topic again, but that ticked me off!


Toby

 

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

Chazzbo77,

Keep searching for that animal. He deserves that much. Respect the opportunity that the good Lord presented you. That suffering animal deserves to die a humane death, not a suffering one through this winter. A friend of mine shot a deer this season. Searched for three days until he found it. It was dead when he found it, but he needed to make sure it wasn't suffering from an ill placed shot. A twig can deflect the bullet from the best hunters gun any time.

And, think about it this way, if you give up the search, that deer that's probably dead has now been killed in vain. What a total waste! You get no meat for the table. You get no satisfaction of the hunt. And that deer doesn't get to continue breeding. If you're gonna kill it, recover it. Don't let it go to waste.

Otherwise, maybe a shotgun isn't your best hunting weapon. (I know, you might be restricted to a shottie where you hunt):banghead: Maybe you should practice shooting more. Maybe you should pass on longer shots until you're confident and skilled to make them. That's your call. Don't shoot because dad or gramps told you to. Only you can decide.

-Steve

 

[Albatross]

I support clean kills because it increases the chance of success in the given activity (killing deer to fill the freezer).

I do not do this out of any displaced sense of morality or ethics (I'd shoot off all four of their legs and skin them alive if it got meat to feed my family).

People probably hunt for all sorts of reasons and it seems to me that some of them feel better when they justify their killing in any manner of ways. However, I don't see much of a difference between a clean kill or a slow kill as long as the meat isn't wasted.

I just don't think killing them swiftly is any nicer than killing them in any manner of other ways, in the end the animal is dead and killing isn't nice any way you cut it.

If a clean and quick kill is so vitally important when why is bow hunting a viable option?

I shoot deer with a rifle. They almost always die right there. I know plenty of fellows who shoot deer, bears and all sorts of critters with arrows. These fellows usually spend a bit of time chasing their prey down. I guess bow hunters are deviants, right?

Also, I dispute and disagree (quite strongly) that deer feel and think like you and I. Deer are not self-aware and do not have conscious thought. They are plentiful game animals (in most places) and if a hunter wants to take an unlikely shot because it is the best one available it won't hurt my feelings.

Not everyone agrees with the current popular opinion be shared in this thread and I think its important for young hunters to understand the difference humans and animals, respecting the natural world and killing deer.

/Yeah, I'd take my dog (other pets) to the vet if they were sick and if he told me the bill would be 10 grand I'd take the animal home and let it die (maybe shoot it). Maybe some of you would pay the bill no questions asked, like the animal was your daughter, but I'd rather spend the money saving or helping a person.

 

[Sinixstar]

Also, I dispute and disagree (quite strongly) that deer feel and think like you and I. Deer are not self-aware and do not have conscious thought.

and you know this how exactly?

 

[kingpin008]

Deer are not self-aware and do not have conscious thought.

The assertion that animals are not self-aware and capable of conscious thought is laughable, and borders on stunningly ignorant.

Ever seen an animal limp away from a fight and go curl up to lick it's wounds?

That's self-awareness. Animals know when they're hurt, when they're threatened, when they're happy, and when they're being threatened.

Deer are smart enough to know that the plants growing inside the borders of my fenced-off backyard garden are tastier and more worth eating than the grass and bushes around it. Raccoons are smart enough to use teamwork to pry the lids off of my garbage cans at night. Hell, in the wild they even wash their hands before they eat if they're near a water source!

How anyone can honestly believe that animals are not possessed of at least some basic (and often times quite advanced) senses of self and surroundings is completely beyond me.

 

[Albatross]

The assertion that deer are self-aware and capable of conscious thought is laughable and borders on stunningly ignorant.

Actually, wait, I'm probably wrong.

I bet deer sit around and worry about their future and children's future. They probably ponder id, ego and super-ego in their spare time and the purpose of life in between cud chewing sessions.

Yes, upon further reflection, I am certain deer do these things.

Regardless, I guess we agree that bow hunters are deviant miscreants who enjoy the suffering of other conscious beings.

 

[Sinixstar]

I bet deer sit around and worry about their future and children's future. They probably ponder id, ego and super-ego in their spare time and the purpose of life in between chewing their cud.

There's quite a range between completely ignorant/pure instinct, and humans. Most animals fall somewhere in that middle area.

Don't really want to get into this though - this is kinda going way off topic. Suffice to say the research is out there, and the science is there, should you choose to educate yourself.

 

[Sinixstar]

oh and no - as a matter of fact, i learned to bow hunt before i was allowed to carry a gun in the field.

A clean kill is more then possible with a bow. As with a rifle - it comes down to shot placement. I've found that backing off on the pull and using a heavier broadhead tends to work a lot better, as you're not poking a hole clean through - but doing more damage internally which tends to kill much faster.

45-50lb pull with a 100-110 grain head does the trick very nicely. Cranking it up to 65-70 and in my experience anyways, you're likely to be tracking for awhile longer.

 

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

Stay On Topic!!! Please.

The point here is the young shooters conscience that's at stake here. Where the deer is in the food chain or thought process is not the issue. Capable of cognitive thought is not the issue. The issue is that one of God's creatures is wounded, and will most likely loose it's life. To give respect to that life, a human should at least attempt to make sure that there's minimal suffering and no waste of meat. (life)

Now... Do I think the same when I shoot vermin? No. Because they aren't meat on the table. There's not enough there to justify cleaning/cooking/eating. Nor does most vermin taste good. Killing a meat animal, then letting it go to waste is not honorable. The issue is not that bow hunters or rifle hunters promote more or less suffering of the animal. A good hunter won't allow the kill go to waste, (or food for the vermin).

I think the kid and the dad should search harder for this deer. He's not far... He's wounded. He's hunkered down in the thick.

Oh. and I'll edit from what I wrote before.. 'A 20ga at 100yds?' That's borderline effective. I'd rather see a 12ga at that distance. -And that's pushing it.. to be effective. (I don't want all you ballistitions responding about this... I know there's been plenty of .22's that have killed deer. I just think that there are more effective rounds than a 20ga at that range.

-Steve