Smart Guns FYI

[NOMI WASP]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...-11e4-9349-84d4a85be981_story.html?tid=pm_pop

UNTERFÖHRING, Germany — In nearly 30 years at Heckler & Koch, a legendary German gunmaker, Ernst Mauch designed some of the world’s most lethal weapons, including the one that reportedly killed Osama bin Laden. A state regulator once called him a “rock star” in the industry.

Now the gun world sees him a different way: as a traitor. The target of their fury is the smart gun Mauch designed at Armatix, a start-up near Munich. The very concept of the weapon has been attacked by U.S. gun rights advocates even as it has helped Mauch resolve a sense of guilt that has haunted him his entire career. He knows children have killed each other with his guns. Crimes have been committed with them.

“It hurts my heart,” the 58-year-old gun designer said. “It’s life. It’s the lives of people who never thought they’d get killed by a gun. You have a nice family at home, and then you get killed. It’s crazy.”

Mauch’s solution, the iP1, can be personalized so it only fires if the gun’s rightful owner is wearing a special watch connected wirelessly to the weapon. It has not been the hit he imagined for the multibillion-dollar U.S. market. Second Amendment advocates, fearing the technology will be mandated, launched angry protests this year against stores in Maryland and California that tried to sell it. The industry that once revered him now looks at him with suspicion.

“I love Ernst, and his contributions to firearms are incredible,” said Jim Schatz, a gun industry consultant who worked for Mauch at Heckler & Koch. “But he doesn’t understand that the anti-gunners will use this to infringe on a constitutional right. They don’t have a Second Amendment in Germany.”


If I was in New Jersy I would be very concerned about this. Enjoy!

 

[JTHunter]

"connects wirelessly" ??

What happens when one (or both) set(s) of batteries go dead?

 

[barnbwt]

Maybe I'm just jaded, but I see this as the apple not falling far from the tree. H&K is one of, if not the most notorious of gun companies when it comes to being the King's armorer, withholding its wares from civilian customers (partially due to German gun laws and historical US mistreatment of their products, but by now a clear cultural trend in the company). It surprises me not one bit that one of their leaders would subscribe to the theory of disarming peasants for their own good (which is all a smart gun does, except, supposedly, at the moment you 'need' it as determined by the designer/equipment controller).

That's why I'm not taken in by these articles which attempt to put up Mr. Mauch as a 'disarming' (pun) figure for gun owners in this country. He is part of the 'system' we fear coming to our shores in this country. But the writers, utterly ignorant of gun culture or RKBA issues, put him up to us saying "it's okay, he's a gun-guy, too, so he should be able to make sense to you nutjobs" when the HK416, nor any other 'sniper' weapons he was involved with, were ever built with the intention of being offered to the plebes (what else was he involved with, btw?). I don't fault H&K for being the King's Armorers; that is a service desperately needed by kings, after all. What irritates me is when their leader then comes to my nation peddling self-restricting wares 'for our own good' knowing darn well they carry tangible legal consequences --unlike the 'dangerous dumb weapons' he so fears us wielding.

It disturbs me to hear the man is so morally torn by his craft. Has anyone here, who has assisted someone with selecting or better yet building a firearm, been kept awake at night by how they might misuse them? I know I don't lose much sleep, even knowing the customer of my employer may be utilizing my design work for deeds I might find immoral; my engineering is not the governing link in the chain of events leading to that deed --my vote is. Were I to refuse, they would simply find another and carry on, me being penniless and powerless the only result. Whether a sniper rifle is used by soldier to save a baby or assassinate a foreign leader is simply not a burden an honest designer, with no delusions about his place in the world, will place on himself; we all know it lies with the shooter and those giving him orders. And we all know that by providing the best of tools, the greatest good can potentially be won, which far outweighs the greatest potential evil (basic Judeo-Christian concept, this). Efforts at limiting or ending bad actions are always most efficiently directed at those perpetrating them.

"Cast in the name of God, ye not guilty" was commonly etched into English executioner's axes in the middle ages. Many say to reassure the executioner, but that is what the hood was for; it was to plainly show the public that the axe itself, in an age believing in magic and the moral agency of objects, carried no burden itself. Both the axe, those who made it, and the executioner wielding it, were themselves being wielded closely by a higher power ('the name of God', or morality in general) who carried the burden --righteously or tyrannically.

TCB

 

[MachIVshooter]

“It hurts my heart,” the 58-year-old gun designer said. “It’s life. It’s the lives of people who never thought they’d get killed by a gun. You have a nice family at home, and then you get killed. It’s crazy.”

It disturbs me to hear the man is so morally torn by his craft. Has anyone here, who has assisted someone with selecting or better yet building a firearm, been kept awake at night by how they might misuse them?

Not in the firearm industry, but I certainly don't lose sleep knowing that a vehicle I repaired may kill someone in a DUI crash. I doubt it bothers the automaker, the aftermarket parts makers, the clerk at the liquor store or the company manufacturing the beverage either.

Some people have difficulty understanding what makes one complicit in a deplorable act. To a reasonable person, that would only be an individual who either facilitated or failed to act in a reasonable manner to prevent such an act; this requires direct knowledge of the actor's intentions, and is the way most laws are written. Then there are all the anti gun zealots who sue the dealers, distributors, gunmakers and ammunition companies; at what point in that cycle do we actually stop the blame? The tool makers? The companies who supply the raw materials? The individual miners who dug the metal out of the earth? God for making the ore? (yes, people have actually sued God)

 

[astra600]

If MR Mauch has been feeling guilty his entire career, why hasn't he changed to designing tea pots or toys? It sounds like he has been carefully coached in what to say. But did he personally build and sell H&Ks products? No. So why is taking credit/responsibility for possible misuse? Was that statement supposed to get his new product attention, and thus possibly sales? "Oh! He did it for the children!." Maybe, but my BS detector is glowing red. If someone is laying a major guilt trip on him, and he's buying it, I think his real friends should step in and help him figure that out.

On the off chance his statement is actually true, I wish him well in his search for redemption. But H&K will continue with the production of non-inhibited firearms, some of which he helped design.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

I can't even abide batteries in my optics from the experiences of failure - really, really uncool failure!

Batteries involved in whether or not my trigger is allowed to fire off a round? Not a chance!
As far as:

“It hurts my heart,” the 58-year-old gun designer said. “It’s life. It’s the lives of people who never thought they’d get killed by a gun. You have a nice family at home, and then you get killed. It’s crazy.”

Go cry me a river, crocodile!

 

[benEzra]

Did notice that he is pointing the gun at the cameraman, with the watch within activation proximity, and it looks like he may well have his finger on the trigger? If the gun works as advertised, then that gun is potentially live.

That is an accidental shooting waiting to happen, and the Rube Goldberg electronics would not prevent an accidental shooting under those conditions, unless the option were enabled to disallow firing under *all* conditions unless the gun were pointed at an official radio-tagged target (one of the other capabilities that the company touts on their website).

The only types of accidents this will stop are those accidents that could have been prevented by a gun safe or trigger lock, and those methods have the advantage that they cannot be remotely disabled. IMO, this is not a technology to prevent typical gun accidents; this is a technology to control gun owners, when taken to the extremes that the company advertises on its website.

 

[MachIVshooter]

unless the option were enabled to disallow firing under *all* conditions unless the gun were pointed at an official radio-tagged target (one of the other capabilities that the company touts on their website).

And how long do they think it would take a nefarious individual to figure out the donkey with a carrot on a stick system using one of the radio tags? Or worse, start tagging targets beforehand and then just holding down the trigger until the gun fires, basically making it function the same way as the "never miss" fire & forget scope/trigger system that was developed for a rifle? Suddenly we'll have murderers hitting their mark every single time thanks to this "wonderful" technology.

The people designing this crap are obviously horrible chess players. They've clearly demonstrated that they are unable to think even one move ahead.

 

[Drail]

Smart guns are being pushed for one reason - the ability of the Police to turn it off just like they can with your car's electronic ignition. It has nothing to do with "safety" or "saving lives". Thank you, but NO.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Smart guns are being pushed for one reason - the ability of the Police to turn it off just like they can with your car's electronic ignition. It has nothing to do with "safety" or "saving lives". Thank you, but NO.

+1

Sadly, the fools designing this tech seem oblivious to the fact that, unlike an automobile, a firearm is a simple mechanical device that is easily fabricated with just a few dollars worth of hardware store items. Likewise, it is not difficult to get around their other control method with ammunition; it's just not that difficult to manufacture with commonly available raw materials.

 

[jmorris]

I remembered a "wireless" gun safty ring from back in the '80s.

This is likely what I remember.

http://www.tarnhelm.com/magna-trigger/gun/safety/magna1.html

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

The rifle I hunt with is 78 years old. I figure it will shoot just as fine in the hands of my grand children in another 78 years, daffy wrist watches or not.

That's the problem with a lot of folks... think there's a high tech way to fix a low tech problem.

 

[Potatohead]

Wasn't the Winchester widow "morally torn" like that also? The gal that keeps adding on to the house. My memory is terribly foggy on this but I vaguely recall hearing a story about the gal who adds a new wing to her house for every person killed, yada, yada. I swear someone was telling me they went on vacation to that house years ago or something but I cant recall any details (obviously).



Sorry, a bit off topic, but I had to investigate. It kind of goes along with the "morally torn" thing..
She felt spirits would be after her for all the Wichester caused deaths if she finished the house, so she kept on adding and adding.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Winchester

You guys probably already know this story I'd reckon.

 

[Elkins45]

Wasn't the Winchester widow "morally torn" like that also? The gal that keeps adding on to the house. My memory is terribly foggy on this but I vaguely recall hearing a story about the gal who adds a new wing to her house for every person killed, yada, yada. I swear someone was telling me they went on vacation to that house years ago or something but I cant recall any details (obviously).



Sorry, a bit off topic, but I had to investigate. It kind of goes along with the "morally torn" thing..
She felt spirits would be after her for all the Wichester caused deaths if she finished the house, so she kept on adding and adding.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Winchester

You guys probably already know this story I'd reckon.

Winchester Mystery House in San Jose, California. I've been there...it was quite interesting.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Mystery_House

I figure all of my dumb guns will last for hundreds more years. I'm more worried about smart ammo

 

[amflyer]

I wonder if there were 25 companies with this "technology" available on nearly available, if he would still be so morally torn. I think he's just looking for an edge.

What kind of genius would he be if he made guns that the anti's liked? Whole new market!

 

[Potatohead]

Winchester Mystery House in San Jose, California. I've been there...it was quite interesting.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Mystery_House
(

Sounds like she had a few issues. I could see where people who are a bit mentally "soft" could struggle with such. At least something like that whole h-bomb thing anyway.

But once the levy breaks so to speak, and everybody and their brother is making a death ray, it's not like your directly involved in any deaths. I believe I could find something else to worry about.

 

[zorro45]

Even the simplest technology (I'm thinking of those horrible magnetic childproof latches) takes quite a bit of time to activate, sometimes it just plain doesn't work. A more complex version of this like a fingerprint laser scanner which I use every day sometimes works right away, and sometimes it doesn't. HK also has a whole bunch of RFID based technology add-on for their military pattern rifles, trouble is, when you most need one of these to go bang it just might not want to.

 

[Sentryau2]

Technology isn't always good

Anything electronic or "smart" can be hacked, hell even pacemakers can be hacked, rfid chips are hackable, card readers on motel room doors. "smart" guns are just a bad idea no matter how you look at them.

What if its hacked?
What if the user is locked out?
Someone needs a gun to protect themselves but theirs isnt around, yours is but they cant use yours because its a "smart" gun.