Smith and Wesson M&P

[danez71]

That's not the point. The gun feels like garbage.

Now we're getting somewhere; how the gun 'feels'.

So, the point you're trying to convince everyone is that, in your opinion, you think it "feels like garbage".

I wouldn't buy one.

Lets go back to the OP. The last sentence is:

Any info from those who already own one would be greatly appreciated.

OP, I dont have the 45 but I do have the 9c. Its been 100% reliable in every aspect & its more accurate than I am.

 

[jon_in_wv]

And what is your basis for comparison?

Really??? C'mon now.

Oh well I'll humor you then.
Several brands of 1911s
H&K P7
Berretta's
Glocks
Browning HP
S&W 3913/5906
Sig P220
Springfield Xds

Should I go on? Or can I have an opinion yet?

Now I would love to hear you quantify why an M&P feels like "garbage" other than some nonsense about how you can feel the difference of a few thousandths of an inch that doesn't effect accuracy or function but somehow makes you recoil in horror at feeling it.

 

[918v]

All of the pistols you listed are average guns. You saying the M&P is the best of that bunch tells alot.

 

[918v]

So, the point you're trying to convince everyone is that, in your opinion, you think it "feels like garbage".

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything.

I'm stating my opinion and refuting false assertions.

You are the one who is resisting.

 

[2wheels]

All of the pistols you listed are average guns. You saying the M&P is the best of that bunch tells alot.

Huh? Several of those pistols are considered to be exceptional service/combat pistols... What does he have to shoot to have a valid opinion?

 

[918v]

In your opinion.

 

[holdencm9]

In your opinion.

Actually in most people's opinions. But you didn't answer the question of what guns he has to compare to in order to have a valid opinion.

This thread is just getting ridiculous. I was hoping to learn some more about the M&P since I am considering a M&P9c but apparently the frame and slide are so loose you can probably shake it a little bit and the whole thing will disassemble itself.

 

[918v]

All the pistols Jon listed are loose pistols assembled by assemblers. He hasn't had any better, so his point of view is limited to the quality level of that group.

I think we're getting off track. The issue was loose fit. One side claims it is done on purpose to maintain reliability. I countered that is not the case, using Glock as an example.

You are now contorting this thread into something personal.

 

[allaroundhunter]

I think we're getting off track. The issue was loose fit. One side claims it is done on purpose to maintain reliability. I countered that is not the case, using Glock as an example.

FWIW, my Glock 19 has more wiggle and "looseness" than my M&P9......but who knows, maybe I haven't shot enough high dollar pistols to know the difference

 

[holdencm9]

All the pistols Jon listed are loose pistols assembled by assemblers. He hasn't had any better, so his point of view is limited to the quality level of that group.

I think we're getting off track. The issue was loose fit. One side claims it is done on purpose to maintain reliability. I countered that is not the case, using Glock as an example.

You are now contorting this thread into something personal.

Nothing is personal. I am genuinely curious: which pistols can he (or I, or the OP) try out that would lift the limited point of view we currently hold?

 

[holdencm9]

FWIW, my Glock 19 has more wiggle and "looseness" than my M&P9......but who knows, maybe I haven't shot enough high dollar pistols to know the difference

There is probably more spread of variability within the manufacturer than there is between manufacturers.

 

[allaroundhunter]

There is probably more spread of variability within the manufacturer than there is between manufacturers.

I agree, so making a blanket statement like has been made against the M&P's supposed lacking of tolerances is quite a stretch.

 

[918v]

Nothing is personal. I am genuinely curious: which pistols can he (or I, or the OP) try out that would lift the limited point of view we currently hold?

S&W Tactical and Performance Center, Sig P210 and X5, Springfield Professional and TRP, other higher end 1911s, etc.

 

[allaroundhunter]

S&W Tactical and Performance Center, Sig P210 and X5, Springfield Professional and TRP, other higher end 1911s, etc.

So would my grandfather's Colt Commander, Les Baer Premier II make my statements more valid? I find it hard to believe that shooting a higher end gun will make it easier to tell whether a gun is loose or not.

I could hand my M&P and my Glock to a 12 y/o who has no firearms experience and they could tell me which one is "loose" compared to the other.

The guns are made to looser tolerances because tighter tolerances without additional care to quality control will cause a decrease in reliability. That is why higher end guns can be tighter (and why you pay more for them).

 

[918v]

The guns are made to looser tolerances because tighter tolerances without additional care to quality control will cause a decrease in reliability.

So why is it that Glocks are tighter, yet equally reliable? Additional QC for free? Nothing is free.

I find it hard to believe that shooting a higher end gun will make it easier to tell whether a gun is loose or not.

The 12 year old you cite can tell the difference in tightness between a M&P and a Baer, or a Glock for that matter.

 

[allaroundhunter]

So why is it that Glocks are tighter, yet equally reliable? Additional QC for free? Nothing is free.

As I said, my Glock is not tighter than my M&P; and I have held and shot Glocks that are even looser. Are there some that are tighter than my M&P? For sure, but saying that all Glocks are tighter than M&Ps is false. I would make the same argument for the Glock if you claimed that all M&Ps were tighter than Glocks, because that also isn't true.
*And I never said that extra QC was free, if you reread my statement correctly I said the exact opposite.*

Here is what I said:

That is why higher end guns can be tighter (and why you pay more for them).

The 12 year old you cite can tell the difference in tightness between a M&P and a Baer, or a Glock for that matter.

Yes he can, he actually commented on it (without us even saying anything about it) before we let him shoot all three. He then went on to comment on how both the Glock and M&P were looser than our AR (talking about the fit between the lower and upper).

 

[918v]

saying that all Glocks are tighter than M&Ps is false

It is not false. I have access to to 20 M&P 40 FS pistols and I own 4 Glocks. I can tell you that the tightest M&P I handled is much looser than the loosest Glock I own.

 

[allaroundhunter]

It is not false. I have access to to 20 M&P 40 FS pistols and I own 4 Glocks. I can tell you that the tightest M&P I handled is much looser than the loosest Glock I own.

So does my M&P that is tighter than my Glock, and my experience with them not count for anything because you have had different experiences? I guess that is the same mentality that causes some people to say that we don't need guns at all... because they have never in their life experiences needed one...

 

[danez71]

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything.

I'm stating my opinion and refuting false assertions.

You are the one who is resisting.

Me? Resisting?

You? Not trying to convince anyone of anything?

Pffft......

Ive had 1 post (this makes 2) in this thread.

You've had 14 in this thread. Youve made over 20% of the posts in this thread.


The numbers speak volumes.

 

[holdencm9]

It is not false. I have access to to 20 M&P 40 FS pistols and I own 4 Glocks. I can tell you that the tightest M&P I handled is much looser than the loosest Glock I own.

It is inherently false.

saying that all Glocks are tighter than M&Ps is false

my Glock is not tighter than my M&P

Ergo, the statement "all glocks are tighter than M&Ps" is false.

But why does it even matter? Even if M&Ps were looser (NOT saying I accept the premise) why would it matter, other than subjectively feeling better or worse in the hand?

 

[918v]

So does my M&P that is tighter than my Glock

I think you have an anomaly.

 

[918v]

Me? Resisting?

You? Not trying to convince anyone of anything?

Pffft......

Ive had 1 post (this makes 2) in this thread.

You've had 14 in this thread. Youve made over 20% of the posts in this thread.


The numbers speak volumes.

Clearly personal. A urinating contest. Childish.

 

[allaroundhunter]

I think you have an anomaly.

As I said, I have handled multiple Glocks that are looser than several M&Ps. Now, I do not have access to 20 M&Ps, I have access to 8. I do not have access to 20 Glocks, I have access to 7.

However, out of the bunch, there are several Glocks that are looser than the majority of the M&Ps, and there are a couple M&Ps that are looser than a few of the Glocks.

 

[CZ57]

I have experience with the XDm .45, the G21, 30 in .45 ACP and the M&P 45C. I own the XDm and it is the best shooter outside of a finely tuned 1911 that I have ever fired. My shooting partner has the M&P 45C and it is as accurate as my XDm or his Dan Wesson VBob. All 3 are more accurate than a G21. Remember it is about the barrel to slide fit more than frame to slide fit. I have never noticed my partner's M&P being "loose".

 

[918v]

As I said, I have handled multiple Glocks that are looser than several M&Ps. Now, I do not have access to 20 M&Ps, I have access to 8. I do not have access to 20 Glocks, I have access to 7.

However, out of the bunch, there are several Glocks that are looser than the majority of the M&Ps, and there are a couple M&Ps that are looser than a few of the Glocks.

It would be nice to obtain manufacturer tolerance specs for either pistol. That would settle it.