Smith and Wesson model 69 5 shot 44 mag

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Passing some time waiting for it to warm up a bit (zero now -7 an hour or so ago). Some additional info on the M69 that might be of interest.

Picture of barrel shank:

69%20BarrelShank69-1_zpsb72ac0a2.jpg



Some measurements M629 Mtn Gun, M69 L Frame 5 shot 44 mag:

629 Mtn Gun weighs 39 oz
M69 L Frame weighs 37 oz

629 Mtn Gun Cylinder Diameter: 1.70”
M69 L Frame Cylinder Diameter: 1.56”

629 Mtn Gun Cylinder Length: 1.705”
M69 L Frame Cylinder Length: 1.670”

(Note: The M69 cylinder is 1.670 inches and isn't recessed for cartridge rims -- a 1.712" hand load fits, but is right at the face of the cylinder. Lymans No 49 edition shows OAL w their 425421 Keith Bullet is 1.710". A .429 minus plug gauge will enter all throats a .430 plug will not.)

629 Mtn Gun Frame Window - Height: 1.735“
M69 L Frame - Frame Window Height: 1.600“

629 Mtn Gun Frame Window – Width: 1.880“
M69 L Frame - Frame Window Width: 1.820“

629 Mtn Gun Cylinder Wall at Narrowest Point: .095” -- (.0900” between chambers)
M69 L Frame Cylinder Wall at Narrowest Point: .060 “ -- ( .130 “ between chambers)
(629 Cyl Bolt Cuts are over the chamber while M69 bolt cuts are between chambers)

629 Mtn Gun Frame Top Strap – Width: .665“
M69 L Frame - Frame Top Strap Width: .665“

629 Mtn Gun Frame Top Strap – Height: .220“ to top of frame (includes sight mortiss)
M69 L Frame - Frame Top Strap Height: .210“ to top of frame (includes sight mortiss)

629 Mtn Gun Barrel Shank OD: .630“
M69 L Frame - Barrel Shank OD: .620“

629 Mtn Gun Frame Over Barrel OD: .900“
M69 L Frame - Frame Over Barrel OD: .880“

629 Mtn Gun Trigger Reach: 3.10“ (same grips for both 629 & M69)
M69 L Frame - Trigger Reach: 3.00 “

Brian Pearce -- Bolt notches weakest point - M69 thicker than M629 at this location



Here are some chrono results:

Chronoed these from the 2.75” M69. Three rounds at 5 Long paces from muzzle and 68 deg F. Larger sample could change the results a bit. Largest ES was 42 fps.


260 WFNGC w/23.0gr H110 avg 1,125 fps

240 Zero JSP with 23.5gr H110 avg 1,126 fps

240gr Fed Factory avg 1,125 fps

265gr CSWCGC (Lyman Thompson) with 17.5gr A2400 (Deep Seat) 1,119 fps avg

325gr WLNGC (BTB) with 22.0gr H110 avg 1,104 fps


For comparison purposes these were shot a while back from my 4 ¼” M69: Same temp, distance from the muzzle.


260 WFNGC w/23.0gr H110 avg 1,224 fps

240 Zero JSP with 23.5gr H110 avg 1,230 fps

240gr Fed Factory avg 1,220 fps

265gr CSWCGC (Lyman Thompson) with 17.5gr A2400 (deep seat) 1,140 fps avg

325gr WLNGC (BTB) with 22.0gr H110 avg 1,182


21.1gr A2400, 250gr Keith 429421, std primer 1,250 fps from 4 1/4” M69

Paul
 
paul105 said:
Passing some time waiting for it to warm up a bit (zero now -7 an hour or so ago). Some additional info on the M69 that might be of interest.

Picture of barrel shank:

View attachment 815068



Some measurements M629 Mtn Gun, M69 L Frame 5 shot 44 mag:

629 Mtn Gun weighs 39 oz
M69 L Frame weighs 37 oz

629 Mtn Gun Cylinder Diameter: 1.70”
M69 L Frame Cylinder Diameter: 1.56”

629 Mtn Gun Cylinder Length: 1.705”
M69 L Frame Cylinder Length: 1.670”

(Note: The M69 cylinder is 1.670 inches and isn't recessed for cartridge rims -- a 1.712" hand load fits, but is right at the face of the cylinder. Lymans No 49 edition shows OAL w their 425421 Keith Bullet is 1.710". A .429 minus plug gauge will enter all throats a .430 plug will not.)

629 Mtn Gun Frame Window - Height: 1.735“
M69 L Frame - Frame Window Height: 1.600“

629 Mtn Gun Frame Window – Width: 1.880“
M69 L Frame - Frame Window Width: 1.820“

629 Mtn Gun Cylinder Wall at Narrowest Point: .095” -- (.0900” between chambers)
M69 L Frame Cylinder Wall at Narrowest Point: .060 “ -- ( .130 “ between chambers)
(629 Cyl Bolt Cuts are over the chamber while M69 bolt cuts are between chambers)

629 Mtn Gun Frame Top Strap – Width: .665“
M69 L Frame - Frame Top Strap Width: .665“

629 Mtn Gun Frame Top Strap – Height: .220“ to top of frame (includes sight mortiss)
M69 L Frame - Frame Top Strap Height: .210“ to top of frame (includes sight mortiss)

629 Mtn Gun Barrel Shank OD: .630“
M69 L Frame - Barrel Shank OD: .620“

629 Mtn Gun Frame Over Barrel OD: .900“
M69 L Frame - Frame Over Barrel OD: .880“

629 Mtn Gun Trigger Reach: 3.10“ (same grips for both 629 & M69)
M69 L Frame - Trigger Reach: 3.00 “

Brian Pearce -- Bolt notches weakest point - M69 thicker than M629 at this location



Here are some chrono results:

Chronoed these from the 2.75” M69. Three rounds at 5 Long paces from muzzle and 68 deg F. Larger sample could change the results a bit. Largest ES was 42 fps.


260 WFNGC w/23.0gr H110 avg 1,125 fps

240 Zero JSP with 23.5gr H110 avg 1,126 fps

240gr Fed Factory avg 1,125 fps

265gr CSWCGC (Lyman Thompson) with 17.5gr A2400 (Deep Seat) 1,119 fps avg

325gr WLNGC (BTB) with 22.0gr H110 avg 1,104 fps


For comparison purposes these were shot a while back from my 4 ¼” M69: Same temp, distance from the muzzle.


260 WFNGC w/23.0gr H110 avg 1,224 fps

240 Zero JSP with 23.5gr H110 avg 1,230 fps

240gr Fed Factory avg 1,220 fps

265gr CSWCGC (Lyman Thompson) with 17.5gr A2400 (deep seat) 1,140 fps avg

325gr WLNGC (BTB) with 22.0gr H110 avg 1,182


21.1gr A2400, 250gr Keith 429421, std primer 1,250 fps from 4 1/4” M69

Paul
Click to expand...

Great info!
 
I do have some of the speed loaders for the Charter Arms. But! They aren’t correct for the 69. They’re about 1/8” too small. If loaded rounds in the speed loaders are forced into the M69 chambers, they’re splayed outward and under tension won’t enter the chambers. Only if lifted and jiggled, will they fall. But... they do work, sorta... Better with a jacketed or round nose bullet.

A CORRECT speed Loader will be a huge improvement.
 
GooseGestapo said:
I do have some of the speed loaders for the Charter Arms. But! They aren’t correct for the 69. They’re about 1/8” too small. If loaded rounds in the speed loaders are forced into the M69 chambers, they’re splayed outward and under tension won’t enter the chambers. Only if lifted and jiggled, will they fall. But... they do work, sorta... Better with a jacketed or round nose bullet.

A CORRECT speed Loader will be a huge improvement.
Click to expand...
It would be, and ideally, a Safariland loader at that. :)

The CA44 does work, and I really dont have a problem using them. Beats the alternatives. It works better, if you cut the rounds loose before it stops going in. You do usually have to physically remove/discard the loader though, instead of it falling out of the way as you close the cylinder.

I much prefer the Safariland loaders too. The loaders for the 696 and my 7 shot 620 and 686+, are the only HKS loaders I use anymore, and thats only because Safariland doesnt make one for those guns.
 
I emailed 5 Star Firearms asking if they would produce a 5 shot 44 Magnum speedloader for the Smith & Wesson® Mdl 69 and the Taurus® TRACKER™ Mdl 44C. If they answer me I will post their reply to this thread.
 
Quick followup. Running the new LabRada chrono for the first time and thought I'd test some 305gr Buffalo Bore and Underwood 305gr .44 Mags. Here are the results -- only shot two of each thru 3 different guns, extreme spread was in the single digits except for the Underwood from the 7 1/2" Redhawk which was 34 fps. Bigger sample, different guns, different ammo lots, different temps could change results somewhat but thought this was reasonably representative:

Buffalo Bore, 305 LBT LFN HC rated 1,325 fps
Underwood, 305 LFNGC Plated (HiTech?) rated 1,325 fps
LabRadar muzzle velocity at 33 deg F
S&W M69 2.75" ===> BB 1,195 fps ===> Under 1,147fps
S&W M69 4.25" ===> BB 1,276 fps ===> Under 1,248 fps
Ruger SRH 7.5" ===> BB 1,395 fps ===> Under 1,315 fps

FWIW,

Paul
 
If youre going to try one of those, Id just get one and give it a try. The HKS loaders list most of the same guns for the CA44, so it makes me wonder if you arent going to have the same issue the HKS loaders do.

Makes you wonder which one specifically they are made for, and will "work" (sorta) with the others.
 
AK103K said:
If youre going to try one of those, Id just get one and give it a try. The HKS loaders list most of the same guns for the CA44, so it makes me wonder if you arent going to have the same issue the HKS loaders do.

Makes you wonder which one specifically they are made for, and will "work" (sorta) with the others.
Click to expand...

Looking at their website they say:

Taurus - Judge (.45 LC Only)
Taurus - M450 & M44Tracker
Charter Arms - .44 Bulldog
Smith & Wesson - .44 Night Guard
Smith & Wesson - Model 69
Rossi - R44102

at: http://www.5starfirearms.com/J5-44-45-Accessories-s/173.htm

Sort of wonder for which gun, if any, the speedloader is optimized for?
 
Here are a couple of pictures of the "5Star 5J" and my M69. I have the Hogue tamers on my gun and they interfere a little with the speedloader and "fast" reloads. Don't know how much, if any help the pics are.

M69%20speedloader%201%20thumbnail_IMG_1914.jpg
.
M69%20speedloader%202%20thumbnail_IMG_1918.jpg

FWIW,

Paul
 
RugRev said:
Looking at their website they say:

Taurus - Judge (.45 LC Only)
Taurus - M450 & M44Tracker
Charter Arms - .44 Bulldog
Smith & Wesson - .44 Night Guard
Smith & Wesson - Model 69
Rossi - R44102

at: http://www.5starfirearms.com/J5-44-45-Accessories-s/173.htm

Sort of wonder for which gun, if any, the speedloader is optimized for?
Click to expand...
Im guessing the HKS CA44 was specifically designed for the Charter Arms, and probably works as its supposed to in them (dont have one, so I cant say).


Paul, the rounds look a little splayed going into the cylinder in your pic, which is how they are with my HKS loaders. With all my other loaders, theres no resistance, and I usually just turn the knob, the rounds drop in, and I "spin" the cylinder closed, and the loader drops away from the gun.

With the 696 using the CA44 loaders, I turn the knob, and have to lift the loader off the rounds for them to drop into the gun. I cant just spin the cylinder closed.
 
I've had several of these.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/792556459

L frame 5 shot 44, just not a mag. These things are beginning to be collectable. I sold them both when I chose 45 ACP as my one and only big bore revolver cartridge. I already had a few 1911's so replaced the 696's with a 625. Probably a mistake but one less cartridge to load.
 
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