Smith Model 10 Issue

[fireside44]

Was shooting my Smith model 10 today. Running 4.5-5.0 grains of Unique behind a 150 grain SWC.

Was accurate and shooting fine. All of a sudden, halfway through a cylinder, it locks up tight. Can't pull trigger or cock hammer.

Pulled the ammo and checked for high primers, running them individually in the cylinder. All of a sudden, it's working again and all is well, no high primers. So I resume normal shooting. Then it locks up again, mid cylinder. Then works again. Definitely not an ammo issue.

Frustrated and irritated by my inability to have a reliable weapon, I take it home and dry snap it vigorously hoping to get it to lock up again. No dice.

Where is my problem?

 

[Husker_Fan]

Is the extractor rod coming unscrewed?

 

[fireside44]

Is the extractor rod coming unscrewed?

Just checked it. It is good and tight.

 

[MCgunner]

Sure sounds like some high primers there. Could be something under the ejector star, grain of powder or something. Unique is kinda dirty.. Could be the rod backin' out. Might have cracked the forcing cone on the bottom causing the cylinder to drag on it. That happened to mine, once. It just started dragging and not turning free, though, didn't "lock up". I had to buy a new barrel. Think it was excess forcing gone lead build up that musta done it cause I was shooting wadcutters, nothing hot. But, K frame forcing cones are rather weak at that flat spot on the bottom.

 

[sgt127]

Primer flowing back into firing pin hole possibly. I haven't reloaded in years, is that a pretty stout load?
Check for wear and or burs on the firing pin bushing on the breechface.

Its also possible that the timing is off. If the cylinder stop fails to drop out of the way just before the hand starts pushing the cylinder around, it will feel like it is welded shut.

 

[BKDinTexas]

Also, check for debris under the extractor star. Most often the cause of your symptoms. A single grain of Unique can do it sometimes.

 

[Eightball]

Maybe some bullet jump just causing it to scrape the back end of the forcing cone? If it doesn't do it when loaded with singles, but only occurs when shooting a string, that'd be one of my first guesses.

 

[Slamfire]

Was accurate and shooting fine. All of a sudden, halfway through a cylinder, it locks up tight. Can't pull trigger or cock hammer.

You have a mechanical problem. My guess is that it has something to do with the hammer block in the mechanism. Or something is inside the mechanism jamming the action.

Maybe a squirrel left an acorn in the thing

This is a Victory Model, way before your M10. But if something is wrong, or gummed up in the cylinder stop area of your revolver, (and yours would be identical to this part of the VM), that would jam up the action.



Flush the action out with a solvent, like carb cleaner. Then blow it out with compressed air. See if that clears it.

Incidentally I had another pre War Smith that was so gummed up that you could not activate the mechanism.

 

[fireside44]

It's definitely not high primers as I checked each round individually when I began to have problems.

If it's debris under the extractor star, it got there while I was midway through a cylinder, with three shots remaining. Is that likely?

The forcing cone appears to be in good shape. If it was cracked, wouldn't it consistently hang up, or could this be sporadic as well?

Definitely no lead build up. I got this revolver almost untouched. Wasn't even a turn line on the cylinder. I've put maybe 250 rounds maximum through it, maximum.

I guess I'll take it back to the range and run it again and see what happens. Perhaps the timing is slightly off as sgt127 mentioned? Can timing jump around like that though?

 

[Oyeboten]

Debris preventing full depth seating of the Cartridges in the Cylinder, or too much OAL where the Bullet itself is seating on the secondary diameter in the Cylinder preventing the Cartridge Head from being dead-against the Cylinder face, can have the Cartridge Head face jam against the Recoil Shield and lock things up ( happened to me once, and symptoms were just as you describe)

Not the Revolver's fault, of course, if this is the case...

 

[MCgunner]

Primer flowing back into firing pin hole possibly. I haven't reloaded in years, is that a pretty stout load?

Standard pressure load.

 

[MCgunner]

Buy some factory loads. I do suspect your loads are at fault.

 

[fireside44]

Thanks for all the fast replies guys.

Guess my best bet would be to clean it out, lube the internals real well, and bring it back to the range for another try.

Buy some factory loads. I do suspect your loads are at fault.

How so?

 

[Oro]

How so?

Because that's the first thing to suspect in a situation like this. Primers could be undersized and backing out under recoil, loose pockets, etc. A baseline test would be to try it again with known good ammo. Any problem in the revolver itself that could cause the problem should also be replicable with dry-firing. Try that and see if it binds.

 

[fireside44]

Because that's the first thing to suspect in a situation like this.

And as I mentioned in my very first post, I eliminated that as a variable. You think winchester white box will make all my problems disappear? Not likely.

If I had said it was a Hi point or a Rossi I'm sure the pistol would've already gotten the blame, but since it's a Smith I think people are more apt to blame something other than the gun.

Fact is, the gun bound up tight inexplicably with or without ammunition loaded in the cylinder. It ain't the ammunition. It ain't the ammunition. Should I say it again?

Sorry for being short, but I'm tired of guns that don't work as they are supposed to. This is a Smith revolver, and many here consider Smith to be the end all when it comes to reliability. And now I can't rely on mine 100%. This was supposed to be my old lady's SD piece and now I'm back to the drawing board.

It's just damn frustrating.

 

[RonC133]

Please don't be testy.

I do not see where you said you could lock the gun up without ammo.

I do not see where you tried factory ammo.

There may be something wrong with the gun but the data you have posted here would not lead me to that conclusion.

YMMV and obviously does. I try to remember that it is a poor workman that always blames his tools for his mistakes.

 

[Oyeboten]

Hi fireside44,


Oh...


I only recalled reading that the issue was with Reloads, and, when Loaded.


If the Revolver binds with no Ammunition in the Cylinder, then yes, this would suggest the issue lay with the Revolver, and, not the Ammunition.


With the Revolver unloaded of course -

Check Cylinder Gap at the Forcing Cone...check that the Cylinder when closed, rotates freely by hand when the Hammer is pulled part way beck to lower the indexing 'Stop' finger at the bottom of the Frame.

With a Ball Point Pen or slightly whittled, blunt Kitchen Match stick end, and, Cylinder 'open', depress the center detent at the Recoil Shield area, which the Ejecter Rod would normally be pressing if the Cyliner were closed, ( or, press the outside Cylinder release slide "back" ) and, try dry firing in double action, and, single action, with the Cylinder 'open' in that manner/mode.

This will tell you if the Cylinder itself is yes or no a part of the binding issue.


Check the rear of the Cylinder where the Hand engauges it, to see if any scratched or clawed looking portions are there.


With the Cylinder still open, as you do single and double action, observe the bottom Cylinder indexing 'Stop' finger, to see if it rises and receeds or remains 'up', etc...

 

[Oro]

And as I mentioned in my very first post, I eliminated that as a variable. You think winchester white box will make all my problems disappear? Not likely.

No, you did not. You said you checked the same ammo - not that you tried different factory ammo or other loaded with different brass and/or primers. Primer issues can be surprisingly hard to diagnose.

Fact is, the gun bound up tight inexplicably with or without ammunition loaded in the cylinder. It ain't the ammunition. It ain't the ammunition. Should I say it again?

Just saying it once would suffice. You didn't mention that previously. If you'd said it in the initial post and before being asked about it, the diagnosis could have gone more easily.

I'm sorry our collective efforts to help have just irritated you. I'll refrain from doing that any more.

 

[dbarale]

It happens to me with unique reloads when running lower pressures. My bet is there is a flake of powder or two under the ejector star. I always carry a toothbrush with me at the range and clean under the star every two or three cylinders...

 

[MCgunner]

Buy some factory loads. I do suspect your loads are at fault.

How so?

I was just eliminating variables. That's how I tend to trouble shoot things. If you're going to get POed over it, I won't bother. It's your gun, I really don't GAF, mine works fantastic.

 

[Glen]

Locked up Model 10

I have a Model 10 and have been shooting it for over 40 years. The only time it has locked up is when I have been shooting it in extreme cold. It was going along fine, and then at some point it just stopped cold (pun intended). When I warmed the gun up again by having it next to my body, it functioned well again until it froze again.

I don't know what temperature you were shooting in, but a wrong lubricant for the cold in the internal works was my problem.