Smith & Wesson 500 lever action?

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I'm sure if Marlin made a 500 S & W lever gun and put a price tag on it around $1,000... They would sell more then people think.

The problem is the pressure the 500 operates at, as noted above Marlin makes no action to operate at that pressure. For them to design and retool for a rifle in a single caliber is not likely because of costs involved to get into mass production vs sales.

That leaves the door open for small custom shops but the lower production rates have the negative side effect of higher price.
 
People also worry about the weight of a rifle, please! I own a 40 pound 50 BMG rifle but I don't tote it around in the woods. There's also a thing called a sling, most sling their weapons when trekking through the woods. The model 89 500 S & W rifle weighs 7 lbs 10 oz. which isn't bad for a hunting rifle. Definitely not to heavy to carry around in the woods for awhile on a sling or in your hands.

The problem is hunters will always complain about the weight of a rifle even if they only walk in a mile or two to a stand and sit on it all day.
All interesting generalizations that don't apply to anyone I know. A sling doesn't make a rifle any lighter. Personally, I really don't care about the weight of an 1886, I've been hunting with 9-10lb muzzleloaders for years. I just think it's silly to want one to pair with a 5lb "handgun". Because the needs of the cartridge stretch the definition of "handgun" a wee bit out of whack. And it's not enough for a proper rifle cartridge.


Never had that urge?
Of course but it often will be used for something other than making noise at the range. I don't buy range toys that serve no other purpose. Like your .50BMG, I have no use for such a thing. Now a bolt action .500Jeffery or a .50AK levergun, that's another matter. Same for the .500S&W, it's a lot of noise and weight with no gain. My .500 will be a custom and it will weigh half as much.
 
Craig, you are an intelligent man with Significantly more knowledge in firearms than most, but you have always been a hater of the 500, and your bias shows. Is that a bad thing? No, we all have our dislikes and preferences. But why you think that every one should follow in your footsteps is beyond me. No gain? No gain over what? 475 Linebaugh? 500 JRH? Come on now. Not enough for a proper rifle cartridge?????? just what exactly is your definition of a "Proper rifle cartridge"? Just look at the ballistics, it has more muzzle energy than A LOT of "proper rifle cartridges" especially out of a longer barrel without a cylinder gap! Let me know if you want me to name a few of the more common ones. And yes I have read your response to such things before. Several times. Its either "not powerful enough" or "too powerful" depending on which argument suites your point better.

Not everyone wants to shoot a 2.5 LB single action chambered in one of those magnum revolver cartridges. Some of us don't want to get on a several month long waiting list and pay the kind of money required for a "custom" chambered in a cartridge that most stores don't sell ammunition for. Some don't want to carry around a beautiful custom sixgun through the brush when thy would cry if it were scratched. Some want it backed by one of the largest gun manufactures life time warrantee. Some of us don't mind carrying around an X frame, hell its never bothered me, and yes I have gone hunting with my 500 on several occasions. I am not terrified or heart broken at the thought of scratching it like I would be for a custom, well frankly because its not a super special rarity.

Now, here is a bite of realism for you; things have changed dramatically in the world of firearms over the past decade/century. The majority of gun owners and shooters these days are not avid hunters, and they aren't military or law enforcement. Most of my gun owning friends are lucky if they go hunting even once a year, many of them have never even been! It is topsy turvey from what it used to be, but they ALL love going to the range or the desert with their favorite guns. A lot of the things I see out there don't make much sense from a real world functionality stand point, especially taking into account who these individuals are. Does that phase them? NO. Nor should it. we are all in this because we love something about guns and the shooting and/or hunting sport. You love your custom 475 linebaugh, I love my factory 500 mag. I don't have much use or want for yours, you feel the same for mine. and that's just fine.

You are right, Marlin likely wont make an "affordable for the average Joe" lever action offering in 500 magnum any time soon if ever. The demand is not there like it is for an AR15 or 1911. Some one might give it a shot though, and its more likely to happen if people like us talk about it, and if or when it does happen, I will be one of the first in line to buy one.

PS I just re-read your post with the argument involving Indians and pack mules. what a load of baloney. What do Indians and gunfights have to do with anything? That argument is bunk because of the fact that there are some lighter weight offerings in the 500, I just went and weighed mine, it came in at 3lb 9 oz. that is hardly the 5lb beast you describe. There is also no good reason why a 500 lever gun should weigh significantly more than a 45/70 that takes the modern loads. so, yeah I really would actually think it grand to use a terrific cartridge like the 500 S&W in a rifle and have my 500 S&W revolver ready as backup. Even if I didn't, instead of having two more cartridges to load for like the 50 Jeffries, I can keep it down to one, regardless of whether I take them both on a trip or not.:what: and on what planet is the 50 Alaskan or much less the 50-110 better? you are comparing 1 cartridge with similar ballistics but harder to find bullets, and an out dated ultra long black powder cartridge that has inferior ballistics anyway, both have hard to find uncommon brass, and neither one is commonly sold in stores. and guess what? THEY ALL ARE LOUD with heavy recoil.
 
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I think 500 S&Web has the potential to be a very versatile and useful single shot carbine round. I don't hunt much anymore but I do cast for and reload for my 500 Handirifle. It is a a piece of cake to make a reload which will shoot into a hogs piggy snout and out of the end of his curly tail. I don't worry about expansion with a hard cast 50 caliber boolit. The 500 Handirifle is a slick little rifle that can punch a half inch hole through even great big animals with a $0.25 reload out of a $250.00 gun. It also can be loaded to pop possums with a less than $0.10 load that does not make a lot of noise. On the low end it is down to the noise level and cost of a 22.On the upper end it is right there with the great African cartridges. But you can't buy cartridges to do this you have to make them. And there aren't data published to do this. For example: If I take a one inch slug off a 1/2 inch brass rod, how much 4198 does it take to drive it through a buffalo? What about COL? Maybe I need more brass rod. How many 50 caliber balls can I load on top of 7 grains of Unique. Because it is of the magic diameter of 1/2" and shot out of guns and brass built for high pressure there are many horizons for reloaders to explore using commonly available components .
 
The realm of the .50 is an expensive game to play, regardless of cartridge or platform. To become proficient with something with this level of recoil, one must do a lot of shooting. To do any appreciable amount of shooting, one must reload. I also assume that few are going to subject themselves to the recoil and expense if they do not have a use for such things and that means hunting. So I look at it from the hunting/reloading perspective and take few others seriously. Lots of people buy the big X-frames for whatever reason and only shoot a box or two a year to impress people at the range.

It's not hate, I just don't see its purpose and think it's marketed to the uninitiated. The .500S&W is an answer to a question no one asked. All it offers over standard length cartridges is velocity and all that velocity is good for is range. Well, if standard cartridges fit into holster sized sixguns and easily cover 125yds, then what good is more? Most have no business shooting a handgun beyond 50yds, much less 150-200yds. People 'think' they're getting greater lethality but in fact, there is nothing the .500S&W does that the more practical 1.4" cartridges won't do in a lighter, smaller, more packable revolver.

Like I said, the 1886 is readily available or adaptable to the .50AK and .50-110. The S&W would be a step backwards in utility and a lot of unnecessary pressure. The AK is a much better cartridge for the job and the platform and there is nothing a 525gr at 1850fps cannot do. It's a proper rifle cartridge and loading data uses rifle powder. The .500S&W is a pistol cartridge that uses pistol powders. It gets the job done with extreme pressure.

The comment about Indians and pack mules was to make a point that you clearly missed. It's nice that pistol cartridge leverguns can share ammo with a paired sixgun but let's be realistic, it's more novelty than anything. You load your rifle and your pistol, have a few extra and you're set. Like I said, it ain't the 1800's and you're not preparing for running gunfights with Indian tribes.

The .50-110 and .50AK are the same length. You can order either from Turnbull Mfg.

Well, here's your .50AK brass. Starline makes it, it's good and it's cheap. There is no shortage of bullets either, if you actually bother to look. The CPBC 525gr is a very well reputed bullet that penetrates like a freight train.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/941427377/starline-reloading-brass-50-alaskan?cm_vc=ProductFinding

Those who want a .500S&W levergun bad enough can buy a Big Horn. All of the above are my opinion of why a .500S&W levergun for under $1000 will never be seen. The .454 is infinitely more popular. How many rifles have been made to chamber it? When you up the operating pressures to 65,000psi, everything changes.
 
Considering that H&R seems to be going out-of-business, Handi-Rifle options will be limited.

Are you trying to start folks hoarding handi rifles? I don't think single shots have the same allure as the AR's do despite their new color and addition of rails on some of them.

Looks like they are still paying to have there site hosted though.
http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/default.asp
 
Are you trying to start folks hoarding handi rifles?

No, just sharing information. Where there is smoke, there is usually fire...

http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/open-h-r-nef-firearms-forum/165311-h-r-no-more.html

A reliable source that works at H&R has stated the company is officially closing their doors effective immediately. The announcement was made at a internal production meeting at H&R on Friday February 27, 2015. H&R is cancelling previous orders for parts and all accessory barrel production under their barrel accessory program.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=767856

I doubt there will be any sort of formal announcement. Companies rarely want to publicize their failures. The only detailed explanation for why this is happening will probably appear in the next annual Remington shareholders report.
 
For example: If I take a one inch slug off a 1/2 inch brass rod,
Does the .500 have an exemption to the AP ammo ban? I wouldn't be talking about this stuff at the range and gun store.
 
Hatt, call Barnes and ax them. Most deer rifles will shoot soft point bullets through 1/4" mild steel. I think your comment is not relavent. I load 365 grain hollow base wad cutter over small doses of fast pistol powders. I was looking at a 4" 500S&W and I thought my huge wad cutters at say 5-700 fast in a 5 shooter might serve very well for home defence. The rig would be too heavy for concealed. If some of you guys get some cheap Lee dies and molds and pound of fast powder, you might surprise yourselves. Have a good back stop. The first mouse loads I made went straight through a great big section of a seasoned sycamore log. I must agree that factory loads are to expensive and kick too hard to be of practical use. To me the real attraction of a true 1/2" bore is the stuff you can shoot out of it. There are few if any calibers you can work up one ounce or more shot load for. Property hand loaded a 500 can exceed a Judge in both bullets and shot.
 
I wonder if you could get some oilite brass in 1/2" rod and get some to smoke going down range? That would look pretty cool coming out of the barrel of the 500!
 
I know it is not as convenient for people already loading .500 S&W, but you can get close to the same performance with a 45-70 lever action rifle. Most people who want a big bore lever gun will settle for one of these, so it is unlikely Marlin or Henry would be able to get enough sales to design a brand new gun around 500 S&W.
 
...and on what planet is the 50 Alaskan or much less the 50-110 better?
Talking to Mike Rintoul of Grizzly Cartridge over the weekend reminded me of this thread.

http://www.grizzlycartridge.com

.50AK 525gr at 1850fps
.50-110 525 at 1850fps
.500S&W 500gr at 1450fps

Big difference and the rifle cartridges operate at a lot less pressure.


That is goofy money.

Puh-leeze. That's way out of reach of the average shooter.
It is what it is and what it is is a custom quality levergun in a proprietary action. None of the Marlin actions are suitable. None of the pistol cartridge levers are big/strong enough. The 1892 is plenty strong but not quite large enough to house the .500S&W. The 1886 is the only action big/strong enough and it is too much beef for the cartridge. So what Big Horn did was to build an in-between action based on both. Big difference between it and a standard production gun. You really think the "average shooter" wants a .500S&W levergun???


...you can get close to the same performance with a 45-70 lever action rifle.
A .458 is a long way from a .500. The .50's posted above launch a bullet of larger diameter and 100gr heavier at the same velocity.
 
A lever action in 500 does sound cool if it could be done at a reasonable price.
Until then the 45-70 or 450 Marlin will have to scratch the itch...
 
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