Snake!!!

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I kill all sorts of things that are just doing their thing because of how they were made. Snakes are just one more thing in that category.
I kill snakes bacteria, roaches, viruses, ticks flies mosquitoes, cancers, diseases, and every thing else that I can that is legal to kill to protect myself, and I really do not believe in the live and let live line of thinking.
I suspect that most all of those that say let the snake live, are the same ones that say give me medicines to kill what is just doing it's thing inside me. Or do they kill flies or other small organisms?
Do they kill or not kill because of size?
 
Leave Kaa alone and Kaa will leave you alone.
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Um... yeah, right. :rolleyes:

Memorial day weekend, a year ago, an 18 inch long copperhead cost me $600 in vet bills.

It came into my fenced-in back yard and bit 3 of my dogs before they even knew it was there. In all likelihood, it was run out of it's own habitat by my idiot neighbors building a HUGE bonfire right at the tree line, a week before. ( My property butts up to a large patch of woods. The neighbors beside my have a lot that runs further back than mine, and this is where they built their fire. )

Whatever the reason, the snake ended up with two .22 caliber bullet holes and a crushed skull for it's trouble. It was only the 2nd poisonous snake I've seen in the 18 years I've lived here. Oh, and this happened right at dusk, so the little bastich what tough to see up under the trees, in the shadows. That's one reason it got the three dogs; they were running back and forth across it, and yelping when they got bit. It was the yelps that let me know something was wrong.


Now, before anybody gets too excited about me murderin' reptiles, I should tell you that there are usually several black racers and rat snakes that run around my property. I don't disturb 'em and don't let anybody else, either.

However, I didn't see the first one of 'em, all of 2008. Only that pesky pit viper. And I figure that fact, plus the afore-mentioned fire, was the only reason I saw the venomous one.

They are back this year, however. Had one on my back step just a few weeks ago... a nice fat racer, about 4 ft. long.

As for the shot cartridges in the .38... c'mon now, learn to shoot. I hit that twiggy little copperhead twice from about 6-8 feet with a Beretta Bobcat, and in a hurry to boot. 2 shots, 2 hits, in about a half a second. :D ;)


Anyway, non-poisonous reptiles are welcome here. The others best keep themselves elsewhere.



J.C.
 
you know how I deal with venomous snakes? I walk away a few yards and let them vacate the area. That's what they want to do once they realize humans are around.
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Apparently you have never had to deal with Cotton Mouth’s/Water Moccasin’s. They will crawl in your boat, throw your ass out and take the boat. I know more than one boy that blew the bottom out of their boat or canoe when the Cotton Mouths came a callin’.

I was raised in Florida. A bunch of kids I was raised with were snake bit. I have had both rattlers and Cotton Mouths strike at me. They missed. Many of our cats and dogs weren’t as lucky, and no one took any pet to a Vet in those days. The tough ones lived and the weak ones died.

I find a poisonous snake around me, it’s dead, and cooked. We moved into town in the late 50’s, when Mom called me and told me to get rid of a rattler or moccasin, I would use an ole’ Cane machete, with the hook on the end instead of the 22.

The “good” snakes get left alone. I don’t kill Coral snakes either, you can move them easily if they are where they can be a problem. We used to milk snakes in our biology Lab (The pith vipers, rattlers and Moccasin’s) when I was in High School and sell the venom to the local hospitals for them to make anti venom. That was one way to raise money for the science dept in those days. (can you imagine them doing that now?)

We used solids for snakes, most often a 22. Just shot the head of the snake.

I moved back to Florida from Arizona in the early 90’s for a few years cause my father was dying from cancer. Rented an apartment in town. My Wife was from the northern planes and didn’t really understand snakes.

First major “Frog throttler” that came a long, a Cotton Mouth comes right up the drainage ditch which is now full of water in our complex. I called the manager and told him about the snake. Also told him I had a nice Super Single Ruger 22 and would take the snake out, as long as he didn’t call the cops on me. He said “do it” and that he would handle any problems with the cops. One less Cotton Mouth in this world, with one shot.

I heard they were pretty tasty
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Snake does taste good, no fat. I liked it best roasted over an open fire, crispy, nice fat 5 or 6 foot rattler. And if I didn’t eat it, one or more of our cats would. That’s how we kept the critter census under control, a couple or three cats, and a couple dogs.

In Vietnam I did kill a couple of Cobra’s, but didn‘t get to cook‘em. We were on the move, and fires were not healthy. Here in Arizona I have had very few run in's with rattlers.

Ain’t got no truck with poison snakes. I don’t go hunting them, and they damn well better not be looking for me, cause if they find me, they are going to die.

Go figure.

Fred

Stupid should hurt.
 
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They aren't exactly wandering marauders. Are you suggesting that eliminating them from an area will not result in fewer of them in that area? Dead snakes don't have little snakes; that seemed like a logical conclusion to me.

You're getting off topic. I'm suggesting that you offer proof for what you stated as fact...regarding the "conditioning" of other animals. Either you can or you can't. Changing your focus to a semi-related but still different point won't change that.
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Good grief. As stated, if the population of snakes in my yard is 10, and I kill 10, then the population is zero. Zero is fewer than 10.
 
My practice is to shoot them with cast bullets. I used to carry snake shot but found it was to limiting. I know where my revolver shoots, windage is right on. Doesn't matter at close range for a snake, just line up the snakes body with your front sight and it's a hit. Closer you can get to the head is of course better. Practice on a stick stuck in the ground with a card board box for a background to see where your hitting/missing. You can also draw some lines on paper and shoot those at snake distances . In a camp like you describe a shovel works to.
 
I've used .22 shotshells from 6 feet with good effect, so I can't see a problem with .38's. Any of you snake lovers are welcome to come out a catch all the copperheads you want and take em home with ya.
 
Practice on a stick stuck in the ground with a card board box for a background to see where your hitting/missing. You can also draw some lines on paper and shoot those at snake distances .
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Shooting at a piece of rope or a section of old garden hose thrown on the ground works too.

Just make sure the ground isn't too rocky, or the "snake" may shoot back. ;)


J.C.
 
Good grief. As stated, if the population of snakes in my yard is 10, and I kill 10, then the population is zero. Zero is fewer than 10.
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No one is arguing with the math. But what does your statement above have to do with your statement below?

...they need to be killed when they put human health at risk. It is the only way to condition dangerous wildlife to avoid human contact.
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The statement above is what I'm questioning. If you're saying "conditioning" to mean "population control," then my only request is that you try using English. However, if you stand by the above statement as written, then I'm simply asking for proof...essentially, how do you know that??
 
Rattlesnakes are protected here........even if they weren't, it's a waste of a valuable resource just to kill them for no reason. Like any other critter if you want to get rid of them, get rid of their food source. When I lived in Minnesota, they would come around the farm looking for water when it was dry. You just raised the cover on the cistern slowly and with a stick. More kids are killed every year in this country by domestic dogs than rattlesnakes........why is it you don't see folks killin' every dog they see?
 
Is that a canebrake Pistolhunter?
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Looks like one to me. And that's a hoss of a Canebreak at that.

A report from our hunting lease is that there's one heck of a Cane break around. My friend left his pistol in the truck because of 105-110 degree heat index. He said that it reached all the way across the tire tracks of a full size pickup. He hasn't left his pistol in the truck since. I have my doubts that it was a Canebreak, but Pistolhunter's pic shows that it is possible.

In the same town, several years ago, there was an Eastern Diamondback killed that measure 11 feet without the head, had a diameter of around 6 inches, and weighed in at (IIRC) 120 lbs. Pics were in the paper, with a very large man holding the snake. The head(less) end was near his knee, it's body layed across his shoulders, and the tail touched the ground. If the diamonds weren't where they could be seen in the pic, I would'ne swore it was somebody's pet python/boa.

Wyman
 
The statement above is what I'm questioning. If you're saying "conditioning" to mean "population control," then my only request is that you try using English. However, if you stand by the above statement as written, then I'm simply asking for proof...essentially, how do you know that??
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Before I give this one more shot, I was under the impression that I was communicating in English; your quip is not helpful to our discussion. My point is simply this; all wildlife seeks suitable habitat. Depriving them of suitable habitat will reduce their numbers in the area hostile to their survival. All game management relies on this basic principle. If this explanation is not sufficiently supportive of my earlier comment, then I will acknowledge defeat. Pray for me that I might find some way to live with the humiliation.
 
I don't think it's a good idea to have your first two shells of birdshot. I'd rather see the first two rounds of FMJ, then the other three JHP. If you're using your snubby for defense, why would anyone want to just scare or wound an attacker? If you do shoot, you shoot to kill.

That being said, my firm belief is any snake that comes across my path, is going bye-bye, forever. I grew up on a small farm and we had several copperheads around the chicken coop. Snakes seem to like to hang around the feed/water area, probably to snatch up the small chicks. One missed me by inches when I reached down to pick up a dead chick. From that day on, any snake was dispatched by my 12ga sawed-off Winchester model 12, with 4- shot loads. The dead snakes didn't go to waste, they made fine bait for crows.
 
Rattlesnakes are protected here........even if they weren't, it's a waste of a valuable resource just to kill them for no reason.
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All native TN species of snakes are protected here too... except when they put human life in jeopardy, or are found in an inhabited area and are therefore a threat.

So... a rattler or copperhead in a person's yard or near their house here isn't killed for "no reason". It's killed for the same reason you'd shoot a human intruder who comes into your home uninvited and threatens you.


As for pest control... our dogs do a pretty good job of that. And I can handle anything they miss.



J.C.
 
earlthegoat2 it is a canebrake all 5' 10'' of it.

I like shotshells not because I can't shoot, but because they are a lot safer to use than a .22 in a lot of situations. I use them all the time at the lake and don't worry about a ricochet or putting a hole in my jon boat when a snake wants a free ride. I would not use one for sd against a person, but on snakes or rats it has no problems.
 
I'll kill any poisonous snake I see.

A .38 shotshell or two out of a snub will do just fine from eight feet or so...

City folks that want to love them or eat them or save the balance of mother earth or test their marksmanship with a headshot or whatever have my condolences and understanding also...

Les
 
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I don't think it's a good idea to have your first two shells of birdshot. I'd rather see the first two rounds of FMJ, then the other three JHP. If you're using your snubby for defense, why would anyone want to just scare or wound an attacker? If you do shoot, you shoot to kill.
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Wow, so many replies I don't know where to start. Getting away for a moment from the subject, the quote above sums it up re: the use of shellshots for sd. Most are against shellshots as the first rounds to be fired. And most say, "shoot to kill." As an ex-cop, those words are strictly forbidden from the first day of class at the academy, until your retirement. If you're testifying, you *never*, *ever* say, "I shot to kill." The correct wording is, "I shot to *STOP."* So I guess this mentality and training has instilled in me the notion that my first shellshots are to *stop* and then, if it does not stop the perp, I will use the hp's to kill. That is of course if my life, or the life of a loved one continues to be in jeopardy. There is no jeopardy if the perp has broke the 100-yard dash record as he disappears into the night.
Another reason for shellshots, is that if you wake up to hear and or see an intruder at the door way, you will be in a sleepy mode and would not be able to fire a good placement shot in order "kill," assuming you are shooting a non-shotshell and assuming it's at night and you've been woken from a sleep. That's why with shotshell you don't have to worry about hitting the perp, because unless you are a really, really, lousy shot, you cannot miss by firing at the *direction* of the perp. A hit by one or two shellshots at 15 feet, I think, will stop the perp, even possibly making him/her retreat in quick fashion. And by now three hp's are ready to be fired to shoot and stop him/her in a "permanent" manner (;))if you know what I mean.
 
As for the snake killing, I will stand with what I did. btw, remember, the snake was a baby. To me, doesn't matter. A snake is a snake. And I emphasis, I will kill it if it's poisonous.
I will also kill if it's a rat, a cockroach, a centipede, a mosquito, a tick, a flea, and other bad, bad things that have no need to be on earth. I understand the ecosystem thing, and I won't go out of my way to kill anything, but if it's in my way, my path, my yard, my campground, it's going to die.
And if there's any PETA, and you don't like what I said, sue me.:neener:

Thank you all for the many witty, entertaining, funny, and revealing replies.
 
I have no bleeding heart for poisonous snakes. I have two young children and a lot of brush covered land. We have rattlers here, and when I come across them on my property, they are done. I usually go Old Testament on them and just stone them to death. I also have a campground very close to my residence, and I am not willing to put my children or others at risk just to keep the balance of nature. I think its asinine to put a snake over a possible human life.

I find rodents can be dealt with far more efficiently with cats than with snakes. I haven't had to kill many, but I don't hesitate to do so.
 
This theory sounds silly to me. Do you have a link to a source that would support it? Keep in mind we're not talking about "conditioning" single higher form animals, such as a bear or coyote.

I'd be interested to read how killing snake "x" helps keep away all of the other snakes of the same species.



______________________

Simple,
That particular snake isn't breeding in my back yard. No mating ball.... no little copperheads (round here, no rattlers to worry about) to worry about. And as to their place in nature... the black rat snakes do the same job without being a real danger by striking at me and mine (it has happened). The black rats live, the copperheads die.
 
I have the first two rounds loaded with shotshells for home defense, figuring at 15 or so feet I can't miss.

...

Another reason for shellshots, is that if you wake up to hear and or see an intruder at the door way, you will be in a sleepy mode and would not be able to fire a good placement shot in order "kill," assuming you are shooting a non-shotshell and assuming it's at night and you've been woken from a sleep. That's why with shotshell you don't have to worry about hitting the perp, because unless you are a really, really, lousy shot, you cannot miss by firing at the *direction* of the perp.
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You'd be wrong if you depend upon the shotshell to make up for poor gun handling. This is patently bad thinking. As also pointed out the very very limited penetration of the handgun shotshells make for pathetic self defense rounds. Very few here at THR advocating "shoot to kill" and they're quickly taught that this is an improper attitude in a self defense shooting, but your concept of shooting to stop is not consistent with modern training or firearms SD use. You shoot to stop the attack not to have the express purpose of killing your attacker. You stop the attack by having effective equipment and shooting to center of mass because that is the most probable way to stop an attack. You do not start out by selecting the wrong equipment for the purpose. Snake/Rat shot is for those targets to reduce the potential for dangerous ricochets using slugs and because the lighter loads in them are all that are needed for small vermin. They are not intended for 2 legged vermin. Try putting a Tshirt and a sweat shirt over a cardboard box and see if your rat shot penetrates the cardboard at 15 feet.

It is the only way to condition dangerous wildlife to avoid human contact.
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That's not only inaccurate, but illogical. Shooting snake "A" does not condition snakes "B", "C" or "D" to do anything. You might condition an individual snake not to bite through an extended effort at training it to be handled or not threatened by human presence, but killing a single individual in a population of animals as primitive as reptiles does not condition the other animals to avoid humans. It ain't like the second day of deer season. You need to rethink this idea.
 
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