Snubby bear killer?

[Hellbore]

What snubby revolver would work well against BEARS?

We are talking about a backpacking trip to an area with lots of bears and I would like to carry some kind of stainless steel snubby revolver. What caliber works best on bears?

The revolver itself doesn't need to be small, just short so it handles quickly and doesn't get in the way. That's why I am thinking a stubby.

 

[foghornl]

Take a look at Ruger's new "Alaskan" model Super Redhawk. In a .454 Casul/.45Colt combo, or a .480 Ruger. 2-1/2" barrel DA revolver. Sort of a new meaning to "Hand-Held Howitzer"

 

[LeonCarr]

A S&W Lew Horton Special, consisting of a 3" barreled 29 or 629 .44 Magnum, might be a good one. The Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan would be about ideal. Just keep in mind that these snubby handcannons require a lot of practice to become proficient, and you need to be proficient with it when Yogi on steroids is charging at ya .

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[Hellbore]

Is .44 magnum enough or should I opt for the .454 there?

As for becoming proficient, that sounds like fun...

 

[Kramer Krazy]

I'd vote for the S&W 500 with a 4" barrel.

 

[surfinUSA]

Neither are ideal, both may work, get the one you shoot best.

 

[Lone Star]

Why do you need a snub? The four-inch barrelled S&W N-frame may be better, and the Mountain Gun version, with their .44 Special-profile barrel should be ideal, if you can handle the heavier recoil.

This gun will be easier to conceal (if that's the issue) than some humongeous-framed gun chambered for a cartridge that few people can shoot effectively, especially from a snub! Barrel length isn't as important in concealment as is frame size.

If you can't do the job with a .44 Magnum, forget a heavier handgun and carry a rifle. Ammo availability also favors .44 Magnum.

STUDY bear anatomy, and follow the usual rules about food storage in camp, etc.

If it helps, I'd carry a S&W M629 with six-inch barrel.

Lone Star

 

[Hellbore]

I guess it doesn't HAVE to be a snub. I'm just thinking of weight and something that doesn't get in the way while hiking. We're mostly talking about hiking trip use.

Is bear mace more effective than a .44 magnum? If so maybe I'll just get that..lol... From what I have been reading, bears don't die so easily with gunshots...

 

[TallPine]

Black bears or grizzlies ???

If grizzlies, suggest carrying a rifle or shotgun AND a 44 mag (or equivalent) revolver.

If black bears, suggest either a 357mag or 44mag.

Chances are you'll never need to use it. A 4-6" barrel is better for sighting but a snubby might be handy if the bear is already on top of you. ( a guy in AZ a couple years ago was sleeping outside and woke up to a blackie chewing on his head - he pulled a 38 out from under his pillow and killed the bear at contact range)

Otherwise, carry a 22 snubby and use it on yourself to avoid the agonizing death of a mauling ...

 

[Hellbore]

It's for black bears, and I am in Arizona.

I always figured my .40 S&W autochucker, while a superb man-killer, is somewhat less than adequate for bears.

Funny thing is, I have a brother-in-law who carries some little midnight special .22LR semi-auto pistol as defense against bears. I don't know what he is smoking.

 

[thalo]

I think either of these:

1. the 325PD. That's light, Scandium, but packs a punch with .45ACP.

2. the 327 8 shot .357 Magnum snubby. Depending on the load you choose, something like a big 158 grain would be more than enough for black bear. I mean, you have EIGHT SHOTS of it. I think it's a great personal protection snubby.

I have both, and really like them. Good, sturdy, reliable weapons.

 

[Guns_and_Labs]

I'd vote for the S&W 500 with a 4" barrel.

Sounds about right, though I've got to wonder if you couldn't get a 12 ga pump close to the same weight.

 

[Cosmoline]

The big boomers have impressive ballistics, but suffer from many drawbacks. For one thing they are very heavy, and ride like bricks. I ended up leaving my Casull at home more often than not because a rifle was easier to tote. For another, their recoil is abusive. The SRH Alaskan is even more brutal than the standard-size SRH, and the .500 S&W is worse still. Do not expect to be able to get more than one shot off with these beasts if you'e actually attacked. Moreover, these are still just handguns. Even the .500 S&W has marginal ballistics compared with a magnum rifle. Out of a snub their ballistics fall off quickly. And even if it didn't, these bullets are not likely to be able to stop a charging brown bear cold. You're only real chance is a CNS hit or a lucky hit on a shoulder joint. And frankly your ability to aim and fire followup shots fast is more important than FP's in that contest. A fellow here blew out a brown bear's shoulder with a 9x19.

For all these reasons I've ditched the boomers in favor of a stainless Security Six. It's portable, light weight and I can do rapid fire drills without spraying bullets all over or breaking my fingers. The hardcast bullets in the 180 or 200 grain range have excellent SD and will easily penetrate to the CNS or shoulder joints of any charging bruin, and because recoil is limited I have a chance of getting more than one shot in. Plus, since my fingers aren't getting busted up I can do drill after drill after drill with full-power ammo. I'm a real believer in practicing with what you plan to shoot--something both expensive and dangerous with a .500 S&W.

 

[Hellbore]

OK how about some suggestions on short rifles then for backpacking carry?

 

[RyanM]

http://www.serbu.com/shorty.htm

 

[Lone Star]

Hellbore-

You asked about bear spray. Published results vary WIDELY, and many say that the bear either ignored it or was infuriated by it.(I study attacks by dangerous animals extensively, and have books on the subject.) Incidentally, there was another fatal alligator attack in Florida about a week ago. I think 'gators and black bears can be handled by the same handguns.

In AZ, I think I'd carry a .357 or .44 Magnum with four to six-inch barrel, and a load likely to give ample penetration. I'd use my S&W M66 or Ruger GP-100, with Remington's 165-grain load, or Speer's 158-grain Gold Dot. (If I still owned a .44 Magnum, it would be ideal, but for hiking, the lighter .357 and its more compact ammo would be preferable.)

I do know of a case in which a Wyoming game warden was down and being chewed on by a grizzly. He drew his "issue" M-66 loaded with unspecified 158-grain JHP rounds, and killed the bear, I think with a neck or heart shot. Actually, witnesses said he panicked, and that only one shot struck a vital zone. He sprayed the whole six shots. I hope your nerves are better. In any event, black bears are smaller....

STUDY BEAR ANATOMY at the zoo, or in a museum and in books. You want to know instinctively where to aim.

For a rifle, I suggest Ruger's M-77 in the short International version in either 7mm-08 or .308. If you shoot a handgun well, and the gun is only for close range emergencies, and weight and bulk are at a premium, I'd use the .357 revolver. It will also (with .38 ammo) harvest small game for the pot while on the trail. Of course, it will easily kill snakes, and you may encounter some of the nastiest, including the Mojave ratttler. (Which see, on the Net or in the library/bookstore.) Scientific name is Crotalus scutulatus scutulatus.

Lone Star

 

[Cosmoline]

OK how about some suggestions on short rifles then for backpacking carry?

I'd suggest something under seven lbs, inexpensive, and rugged with ft. lbs. in the .30'06 class. You should also be able to carry it safely with one in the chamber. Here are some options:

Mossberg 500 slugster: This one weighs about six pounds and with a pistol grip it carrys very well. You should not rely on mere Foster-style deer slugs, however. Get Brennke-style hardcast magnums. The ballistics on these guys is equal to a hot-loaded .45/70 at close range. I like the Mossbergs more than the Rems becuase the tang safety is much safer in the bush and will not get knocked in or out by accident. Plus you can look down and instantly verify its condition.

Mosin-Nagant M-38. Light weight, very cheap. Loaded with 203 grain slugs it has sufficient power. If it falls into the drink just pour some vodka in after it and get another one at the shop. Remember to learn how to use the safety properly, though. There's a trick to it.

Mosin-Nagant 91/30. A little heavier than 7 lbs., but extremely well balanced. Some of my nicest rifle-carrying experiences up here came when I used to keep an old Tula balanced on one shoulder with the barrel in one hand.

Ruger M-77 "frontier." This is brand new for 2005 and while I haven't seen one in the flesh it looks promising. It mounts a scout style scope and weighs around six pounds.

Marlin 1895G "guide gun." This is an old favorite around here. Its biggest drawback is the stupid lawyer safety by the trigger. You don't need an external safety on a levergun with an external hammer and internal safety systems, and until the attorneys came along that class of levergun never had them. Thankfully there are kits to deactivate the device. A tang safety would be a good compromise, and other leverguns have them, but Marlin is too cheap to do it.

 

[popeye]

I've got a Ruger 77/44 which is a 16" barrel rifle chambered in 44 magnum. I bought it when they first came out thinking it would be a good compian to a Smith 29. Its not real heavy and I think I'd prefer it over a handgun on black bear.

 

[Marshall]

Check out Wild West Guns for some cool options.

 

[GaryP]

To think that any handgun is adequate defense against an enraged Griz is an hallucination that will get one in trouble. Survival (Yours) in this scenario is slim at best!

What snubby revolver would work well against BEARS?

The answer is NONE! Your chances of surviving with only a large caliber snubbie for protection are very low if a Griz takes an interest in you!

 

[Peter M. Eick]

When I took required bear training from the Fwibs (Fish and Wildlife Beareau Alaska (could not resist the pun), they basically said that no handgun is a reliable stopper. As one of the trainers put it, what till the bear is gnawing on your left arm and use your right arm to shove your 44 mag into its guts and pray for a big contact wound. One of two things will happen:

1) Bear dies quickly (you hope)
2) Bear gets really mad and finishes you off quickly (you pray).

 

[Feanaro]

To think that any handgun is adequate defense against an enraged Griz is an hallucination that will get one in trouble.

There are better rounds for it but you don't need a four-bore to kill a bear. Nuking from orbit isn't the only option. I wouldn't WANT to take a bear on with a snubby of any sort. Actually, I wouldn't want to take a human on with one. But that is what handguns are for. Can't stuff a rifle or a shotgun in your pants and lugging one around can be impractical.

As for effectiveness, I've never heard it said that .44 Magnum isn't good enough for bear except on the internet(this goes for many things, actually). Some failures to stop have occured but how many compared to the number of attacks stopped? Until I see such a stat, I wouldn't feel afraid with a .44 Mag. revolver. It's not optimal but I figured the layers of defensive shielding(fat) I've built of over the years would stop the bear from getting to the important stuff while I give him what for.

Your chances of surviving with only a large caliber snubbie for protection are very low if a Griz takes an interest in you!

And how many Grizzly bears are there in Arizona? Might as well worry about Polar Bears in Florida.

 

[Hellbore]

Yeah, lots of comments here about how impossible it is to kill a grizzly... I DID say it was for black bears...lol...

 

[Lone Star]

Hellbore-

Many people on the Net don't read previous posts before they pop off in a thread, and many seem to be pessimists.

Grizzly and even big Alaskan brown bears HAVE been killed with handguns. I cited one well known case (which had several witnesses) above.

If you can carry a rifle, do. But the average hiker or backpacker can't, and I know of cougars and bears (even one African lion!) being killed with knives. A powerful handgun gives you better odds than some seem to realize.

Lone Star

 

[saddlebum]

i've been hunting , camping, and hiking in bear country for 25 years and only been killed and eatin twice you don't need a gun.